Bought a set of EMPI carbs for a customers car. WHY Empis? Because after 2 weeks of unreturned calls to Weber direct we got fed up and called an Alfa supplier and he recommended the EMPIS. According to him they are as good as the Weber and is the same design. MY issue so far is the manifolds fit like SH*T I spent 30 minutes going from the car to the drill press reaming out ALL 4 holes to get the F-ers to fit.2 center holes had to be drilled out to 3/8" and the outer slots had to be drilled out to 3/8 AND lengthend. Was this a vision into the future (tommorrow) of how things will go when I start the car up ?

Once the manifolds were done everything else went fine. Is this a common issue and will the carbs end up being problematic?

PICS before somebody gives me the smilie

The new carbs are remakes of the IDF carbs, and supposedly they have added a transition curcuit, though I am not sure.

Make sure the throttle bodies line up with the manifolds correctly or you will have a messed up flow that will make tuning a challenge..though not impossible.

I would be really interested in hearing how you like the feel of these...specifically when you get off the idle circuits...2-3k area.

Rich

Let us know how/if they work.

Absolutely.

The guy at Pierce manifolds said the word on the street is Weber direvt is having serious financial issues and that MAY be why we were never called back. Someone always answerd the phone but the guy in commmercial sales ( where we were directed ) never returned our messages. Maybe HE is the reason they are having financial difficulties

Good work. How did the carbs match up with the manifolds? Was the linkage good/junk?

You try Worldpac's "Redline" division? The Cap'n

Everything was fine except the manifold to head bolt holes. Linkage is good but not the precision fit I personally would want. I haven't seen a REALLY nice linkage setup for these though so this may be the best there is Typical hex bar setup though, I've just not been a fan of the loose fit machining on the ends and center piece. There always seems to be a loose sloppy fit on the arms that is kept in place mainly by the bolts pinching the arms down. I would just prefer a nice tightly machined "star".

are you getting some velocity stacks for those?
Andy

Weber won't be here in a year.. Thats the word on the street.

My Buddy Art Thraen has been assisting EMPI with development of their EPC and HPMX carbs and after some prodding he convinced me to try some..

Results and an overview will come later after some back to back comparisons... The new Webers are horrible, so the EMPIs almost have to be better.

FWIW I experienced the HPMXs two years ago and wasn't impressed at all, but that was before Art stepped in to lend them a hand.

No, the engine in all honesty is a time bomb. I don't want to go into details here but the P.O. "built" a 2056. I thought, and Mark confirmed, what he did is assemble a pile of cheap parts to create a 2056. He had a Weber progressive on the engine and I felt it best to go with the duals to stave off the inevitable. This car was a classic E-bay f-up. Had the guy contacted me first I could have asked one of you guys out in Cali to check this thing out and saved him a LOT of money. But in the end it is what it is and all I can do is try and get him alittle fun with it.

I have already told him the engine s junk and to plan on a PROPER rebuld in the next year or 2 ( if he is lucky) Carbs were done as I said to give the engine what little help we could as well as planning for a GOOD 2056 build later.

For those who saw it this is the car I was looking for info on a month or so ago.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...504&hl=info

Scotty I would love to come by and take a look a this. Just put in a set of duals and I'm having some trouble with venting. Is there no PCV valve on the oil filler on this car. Are they not there on the 2.0?
Good looking install...

Feel free, but call me first to make sure I'm there ! Still got my number?

Can't wait to see some real time, running evaluations of these carbs.

what does the empi kit go for retail? get a triad linkage. you can actually mount the damn thing on the front of the carbs and not have to be a contorsionist to dial them in. time to dig deep and send my italian 40's in for a refresh and wait for weber direct to go under.

k

yea, I was just thinking about parts for our webers...
I have italian made 40's that are a little beat up.
Scotty, I think I still have your number. I'll hit you up. Saturday most likely

I had a 1911cc type 1 over at my place the other day with these on it.
Ran very well. I drove it around the neighborhood and it was great to drive.

i have HPMXs on my 1.7 they didn't have any mounting problems but they were a pain to get dialed in... they are for sale also, if anyone wants to try them as well. (not using the carbs or the motor)

Good luck!!!

Well I found enough time today to get the carbs plummed and I just couldn't resist an initial drive. UNTUNED, UNSYNCHED the thing fired up and idled fairly well. Good throttle response and a quick blast around the block was VERY promising. Only issue I noticed is that when you hoit about 4000 it feels like there is nothing more. TUNING TIME !! At this point my only complaint was and is the fitment of the manifolds. I'll get them synched and tuned later next week. To many collision jobs to get done first. The owner is anxious but very understanding about the delays. MAJOR improvement over the progressive that was on it.

Pete I'll not be at the shop Sat but will probably be there Sunday after 10:30 ish if you want to swing by

JPB Feb 2 2008, 09:34 AM Post #5


The Crimson Rocket smiles in your general direction.


Group: Members
Posts: 2,895
Joined: 12-November 05
From: Tapmahamock, Va.
Member No.: 5,107



Sweeet car but gotta trash that carb.


--------------------

Posting with a beer buz, one day at a time. JPB, March 10/08

1971, 914 Crimson Rocket of Speedings
1971, 914 Yellow Jacket aka "the beater", Jim Kelly April 15, 2007


I guess JPB wins the pre-buy contest

Hehehe!

Sounds like he might have a mid range cam in that thing. Ask him what he's got before you rack your head wondering why the thing won't pull past 3.5K

Final verdict....




I'd buy em Got the carbs synched this morning, typical hex bar linkage issues with slight slop. Synched without linkage hooked up, then RE-synched with linkage hooked up. Test drive concluded the engine does indeed have quite a bit more power than a stock 2.0 ( shitty 2056 build ), carbs were smooth throughout, rod knock was almost inaudible on acceleration so the owner may feel like he has a decent car ....for a while

My only real complaint goes back to the fitment of the manifolds. Get to work on it EMPI !! Oh and send me my free set for pimping your carbs

[quote name='scotty b' date='Mar 28 2008, 08:18 PM' post='1014115']
Final verdict....




I'd buy em

i am getting ready to do this, what size did you get 40 or 44? thanks.

ps. any installation recommendations?

many thanks

These were 40's for a "2056". Recommendations ? Yeah, Be prepared to modify your intakes if you use the Empi ones. Have a 3/8 drill bit handy If you can affors it get the Triad linkage. Synch the carbs with the linkage UNHOOKED then again once you hool up the linkage. It worked best that way. Trying to get them synched with the linkage hooked up first was a PITA because the linkage does have some slop in it. If you don't get velocity stacks you will need to make a riser for the unisyn to seal correctly. A piece of dense foam did the trick

Contact Pierce manifolds.

http://www.piercemanifolds.com/products.htm

yep, sync twice. on the second go round leave one of the idle speed adj screws off the stop you don't encounter any linkage bind. when everything is good, run the i.s.a.c back in til it just contacts the stop and doesn't increase the idle speed. all adj at this point are in teeny tiny increments with little pauses inbetween to allow the carbs to settle in.

k

two more questions:

1. do i have to replace fuel pump and if so to what?
2. do i have to replace distributor and if so to what ?

again, many thanks.

if you are running an F.I. pump, YES, replace it. check with jake raby and the type 4 store for a good replacement. look in the classic thread forum for andy's thread regarding powering the pump. if you can afford it, get the linkage from dave ellison @ triad. www.triadwestperformance.com is the correct email addy, i think.

actually, what i would do...source a set of weber 40 or 44s in the classifieds (there are some being offered), send them to Air Cooled Engineering in Salt Lake City for a rebuild, 1-801-943-1234. buy a new set of head stud correct cb tall manifolds. buy a triad. for about the same cost i've seen some of the empi packages go for you'll have a no bs carb package. or...buy the empi set and jump the hurdles mark has discribed in this thread.

k

again really great info. ordered EMPI's this morn (before i got your last message). what about the dizzy, do i change or can i use original?

O.E. is fine.....for now you will be BETTER off with a new unit, but there will be no harm using the stocker

thanks so much for advice.

got carbs on saturday and intalled sunday. there definately is some fitment/clearencing required. hope to plumb fuel lines and install pump next couple of days. got rotary pump as per your suggestion.

given car is mostly stock, assume i do not need mallory dizzy. as per your suggestion looking for new dizzy , wonder if this should be mechanical advance type (which i think is what EMPI recommends)?

thanks.

did more reading and what i find is that a fully centrifical type dizzy is what works best for a carb car? can anyone confirm and have a type/part # i should be looking for? many thanks.

Mallory Unilite is the best. I'm running a pertronix billet, because I'm a cheap SOB and I could only afford a $200 dizzy instead of the $350 for the Mallory.

If I had to do it again, I'd do the Mallory from Jake's shop. Pre-springed just set timing and be ready to go.

C:>

I just purchased the EMPI 44 Carb kit from eBay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAP...643087&rd=1

and the Only issue I had was also the manifolds. I had to drill out the holes larger and longer to fit my 2.0.
The carbs came bench tested and worked right out of the box, but I still have to dial them in. will do that this weekend.
I have the vacuum advance distributor and will have to change that out soon as the EMPI manifolds do not have a port pre drilled.

I would buy this set again if I ever need to, and the seller.... they have a very knowledgeable technical department... can call them anytime.