The guy who replaced my HEs used the old gaskets. Now, one side, I can't remove the old gaskets and on the other, one bent and pulled a stud. I hate this Fing design and am about to just go back to 911s exclusively. A completly BS design!!!!!!!

Can I use the old gaskets w/o having a major leak?

I am seriously pissed at this thing. Been working on theis for about 6 hours now. About as long as it takes to do a quick rebuild on a type 1.

these cars can have their tough moments, and yes, everything is too cramped


but the car when it works is actually quite fun, providing a different yet rewarding drive compared to the tail draggers


for the gaskets, while you are there i would replace them. that is what i did when i swapped to the 2liter he's, but that is just my opinion.


sorry about the mechanical nightmare you are going throug, but after its done, go and get a

So on your 911, when you try to switch to stainless Heat Exchangers and pull a head stud, will you say F-it and go to 944s or 928s?

You can re-use the gaskets in the exhaust port. How did you bend/pull a stud trying to get a gasket out?

I have never pulled a head stud on a 911. I've broken them but not pulled. Besides, there isn't a completely rediculous exhaust /head design like this one.

The one I bent was a new one and it happened while I was attempting to install the HE. That was when I pulled the stud.

And, So far I've spent an ungodly amount of time fixing things that should mot take remotely the amount of time they do. I guess I was expecting more VW thinking than this has had so far.

You can pull the gasket, its a copper gasket, just use a pick, like the dentist uses...

The studs come out, its part of a 40 year old aluminum head that has heat cycled alot,,,,and if on was already replaced it could remain loose.

The next step would be to get a stepped stud and a bottom tap to make the hole larger in the head.
Just what happens when DAPO and aluminum meet face to face.

The heat exchangers tend to warp over the 40 year period..on thing you should verify is that the two mating flanges....the part that contacts the head are flat and on the same plain..
This is simple and can be done with a file and a straight edge.
This little process will save you alot of grief.

The lining up of the Heat exchangers is simple but I have found you Must do it this way.

On the rear, just hang the heat exchanger on the bracket with no muffler. I tend to ream out the mounting tabs a bit to get you some wiggle room when putting the HE onto the head.

Torque down both HE's to the head (after you ensure they are flat) and get those mounted securely.

then and only then should you hang the muffler.
I find that with the car on stands, I can use my knees to hold up the muffler while bolting it all in.
Tighten and re-tighten the muffler to HE connection...it may leak on the first try, but a few good cranks when its hot will fix it in a moment..so stay in the coveralls for the initial drive...you will need to tighten it once more.

If all of that really pisses you off, get a Chris Foley header with stub pipes and you will LOVE IT.

Rich

OK. some more questions. What is the torque spec on the exhaust system parts.?None of the manuals I habe mention them. Also, a friend told me to use 3M weather stip adhesive to hold the gaskets to the heads. I had been trying to hold them to the H/Es. I am going to try and remove the current studs and put in longer ones to help with the mounting problem. I guess you area suggesting to use a straight edge to check square on the HE. If it needs squaring, how do you suggest doing it?

Lets start with NO..
Dont use 3m anything...for them, it will create a leak.

The HE's need to be flat. put a long straight edge on them to make sure they are on the same plain. Use a large file to true them up so you dont do to much...just a little bit.

Ream out the loops that the studs go through so you have wiggle room.
The nuts are copper, you need new ones, they MUST be 12mm or you wont be able to get a socket on them.
No washers under the nuts, the correct nuts have a flange/built in washer.
If you put in longer studs you may have an issue on the tight one towards the rear....the longer stud may hit the tube, so measure carefully.

Torque is not that much, it seem to recall 25lbs..
If no one chimes in, I will look in the haynes manual under the torque specs in the engine section...its there.

Dry fit them without the gasket..
If you have reamed out the holes, and the HE are flat and not twisted, they should slip on and off...then get comfy and balance the gaskets on top of the tubes and slip is all in...that is how I do it...

What i mean is that I get it lined up, on and off a few times...(the rear bolt is on and loose...the bracket is loose also....its just holding the wieght at this point.
When you can slip them on...no pounding, you are ready.
Then you pull them off just a hair..slip the gaskets in and push them up...all done.
Once you do this once...you will understand why we dont like to take them off...so you tend to learn how to work around them...lol

I have often thought about making stub pipes for stock HE's to have the best of both worlds...but who has the time.

Honestly, if you do it right...and realise that you will move and tighten them a few times...just be prepared for that....you wont take them off for a long long time. There really is no need to remove them unless you are pulling the head.

Be patient, it does fit.
Rich

i have a reply by Raby to a post that exhaust nut torques are 18 ft lb

On subies we use a red high temp silicon that never gives a problem on headers but it's also water cooled so you need to check the temps difference. It works on the turbo flanges and thats pretty hot. Also on chevys we can get brass nuts that don't rust. It looks like that would work on this application also. I know everyone gets ther pants in a dither if it's not original but I like making things better than average. It looks like you could replace the studs with sae stuff and use stainless studs with brass nuts if you can't get metric stuff. I know of no auto designed for the mechanic my son is a ME and is seeing what others have designed and can't believe what constraints are used for production. It's really just a salesmans world.
Charliew

25 ft lbs could potentially pull the threads out of the head...

18 ft/lbs is the correct spec.

DO NOT use weatherstrip adhesive to hold the copper gaskets to the head, or any other "adhesive" for that matter, and stop listening to the person that told you to do that...

Slightly enlarge the gaskets with a pair of expanding pliers. Open them up a little in the middle and they will hold in the head.

use a 1/4" drive socket on the he nuts. the thin wall gives you more wiggle room. often, if you feel around the inner edge of the copper gasket you can find an edge that protudes slightly inside the exhaust port in the head and you can hook it with one of these. i've used a extreemely small dab of grease on the top side of the gasket to stick it in place when putting the he on. you have to work fast.

k

Update:

I used a combo of ideas posted and given. I purchased a curved pick to pull the gaskets and that worked great. Using a cobo of ideas on the gaskets, I decided to use a bead of Automotive Goop around the perimeter of the gasket, doing my best to ensure that none gets on either face, and stuck the gaskets in place. I reamed out the flanges where the studs go through and mounted the one HE in place. It all went well but I won't know how well 'till all is in place.

I will check their tightness at 18 ft/lbs.

I next have to deal with the other side. The real PITA is that after checking the pulled stud, I believe the nut may have bottomed on the threads of the stud so I will have to pull all of them and re-install and then time-cert the last one. I could not find a stepped stud that was long enough.

Ask Jake for the stepped studs.

Rich