I want to convert my teener to a 5 lug. I know I can get the rear trailing arms from Eric but I keep hearing about swapping out the front end for a 911 front assembly. What exactly does that mean? Is it just the front suspension from a 911 with the 911 hubs? Do I need the steering rack as well? What years from a 911 will work in the swap?

I've searched but just havn't come up with good answers. Any help is greatly appreiciated.

Yep just that easy 911 stuff fits right in. the rack is the same on all early 911 and 914's

I just swapped out everything between the ball joint to the fender on each side...

The donor car was a 78ish 911 SC.

And, another option is on the club site. There's a hub that goes right onto the front spindle and takes SC brakes, calipers, etc, has 5 lug holes, and you don't have to change any suspension components.

for starters..here

I know i can get a 911 front suspension with brakes for $750 plus shipping.. As far as I know this includes the hubs as well. Not sure what year the donor car is/was. Should I pick them up or can i find a better deal elsewhere? I want to put on 16" minilights on the car.

Edit.... Thanks Cobra... that helps a lot.... (im not on the pelican site unless im ordering parts)

$750 is probably the going rate for an "A" caliper setup, but adjust if it needs rotors, pads, caliper work, comes with the alum. cross member, sway bar, etc.

I went the early 911 T route and just replaced the struts, hubs & brakes.
I kept all my 914 bits (steering rack, A-arms, ball joints, cross beam, T-bars, sway bars). Even the 914 strut inserts (shocks) work in the T struts.
I think I paid $150 for the struts w/brakes (long time ago).
If you go with 911 Sc or Carrera struts you get bigger brakes.

Jim

i swapped the whole thing. hubs, brakes, shocks, a-arms, torsion bars, steering rack, underbody sway bar ...

i got mine out of a '84 carrera. unbolted the top shock nuts, the a-arm bolts, steering rack bolts, slid the whole thing out of the 911 in one piece.
did the same on the 914 and swapped in the new (to me) suspension.

tighten the bolts, done ...
Andy

PS: here's one of my world famous blurry pictures. just swap the complete setup over!

Swapping the whole set up like Andy (and others I'm sure) works great.
I already had poly bushings 21mm T-bars, 19mm adjustable sway bar, Koni sports, etc...
My choice was pretty easy even if the swap was not as easy as Andy's.

I also don't like the under body sway bars, us old guys get set in our ways.

Jim

I think you're getting steered toward overkill/overpay.

Yes. The entire front end will swap out however; I recommend you get 911T strut assemblies and leave all the rest.

Why?:

As Joe pointed out. The steering rack is the same. Why buy a new one? Why spend the time swaping? If you've never done it before, it's a pain in the ass unless your car looks like Andy's (up on a rack with the gas tank out etc.)

The torsion bar rates on your a-arms are optimized for a 914. The 914-6 used the 911 a-arm but they had to make a special torsion bar to get it back to 914 specs (911 arms have a different spline count). Why remove them when you don't have to? Why buy them when you don't have to? Big t-bars in a street 914 suck. Spend that money on awesome shocks and maybe a 19mm bar.

You haven't mentioned what you'll be doing with the engine or the rest of the car but, based upon percentages, I'd guess you'll maybe want a warmed up 4 cylinder and keep it narrow body. That being the case, calipers over the standard M-Caliper that came on the 914-6 and the 911T would be overkill and you would have a hard time matching the front performance to the rear calipers.

The other thing mentioned is an aftermarket hub out there for the 914 strut. Here's something to ponder; how much? Now; how much for 911 struts with larger spindles and beefier bearings? Also, there's a bit of a misnomer in the SC caliper "bolt on" comment listed above... that would take a 3.5" mounting ear, something a 914 strut does not have. These would be for M-Calipers. Again, weigh the cost of a beefier 911 strut loaded with calipers vs. a hub and purchasing calipers and rotors separate. I'm sure it's well engineered but you have to compare your final costs throughout.

By using the 911T struts and the ATE M-Calipers that go with them you will still have a fairly even brake bias.

Moral of the story for 90% of you 5-lugger Teeners... find a pair of 911T (1970-1973) struts loaded with M-Calipers (make sure they have the hubs) and bolt them on your ride. A good deal might be around $250-400 depending upon if they have inserts and what kind etc. These are the exact same struts and calipers the factory put on the 914-6. Get some good pads and you should be able to toss your passenger through the windshield.

E-Out

Andy, do you make them blurry on purpose? even blurry, it is easy to see what is going on in that picture. I suppose that way you don't have to go in and blur out individual faces or license plates.

Oh, and the link (if I can post club links here)

http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?show...60&start=60

The previous owner did the engine. It's a 1967 911 2.0l six with webbers putting out about 140-150hp. I am planning on doing fender flares and the 5 lug conversion next year. I am looking at 16x7's up front and 16x8 in the rear. Basically this car is hopefully going to be a street legal track car that I use for DE's and club races.

As Eric said, but keep in mind if you go too large on the brakes you will also need 16" wheels! Which will cost you extra if you don't currently have them!

Edit: never mind you beat me too it!! 16x7's

I bought struts about a year ago, and havn't got around to the upgrade yet.

I believe that they have 3" spacing. How else would I know if these are the ones I'd want to use for?

It comes down to how much brakes do you want up front and how big are your rims, 15" or 16"?

Why should we censor links to 914club? Unlike some people, We don't do things like that.

Gottcha. I recommend the full SC suspension (struts and a-arms) then, given your future parameters. You asked about years? 77-83. You could go Carrera but, with a 140-150hp 2.0 six (very cool BTW) I think it would be overkill and the rotors will add a ton of unsprung weight (not literally but... you get the point). I think you can find a better deal than $750 if you look a bit harder. Donor SC's arrive daily.

As mentioned by Jim, ditch the under body bar set up while the a-arms are off the car (grind off old mounts, weld on U-tabs). Go with through body and you will have a larger choice of bars and you'll enjoy much better geometry.

Next... get ready to have fun with rear calipers. There's no real "easy" solution. You should have 914-6/GT or 911 rear calipers to match the fronts. The 914-6 calipers are costly. The 911 calipers don't have a handbrake. Getting a handbrake solution may be equally as costly as the 914-6 calipers.

One of my favorites is to get the Ferarri 308GT caliper and have a second bleeder added. These have the spacers, pics etc. and are ready to bolt on.

Well, with a narrow bodied teener you don't need anything over the M-Caliper (3" spacing). You generally cannot fit enough tire under there to overcome the forces of the caliper.

If you're like Mr. Keske here and you plan to move up to flares, wider tires and you have 140hp plus then I'd recommend going with struts that have the 3.5" spacing. This would afford a wider range of larger calipers.

General rule of thumb:

* Narrow Body Car = M-caliper and 3" struts
* Wide Body Car = ?-caliper and 3.5" struts (can be A-Caliper, S-Caliper, Wide A or 930 calipers)

If they're 911 struts and they're 3" spacing, that's a start. They could have a pinch bolt bottom (early) or a keyed through bolt design (late). Those are about your only options. If they are the pinch bolt design, check to make sure the hole is not ovaled. If not they should be fine.

Yes. It's obvious the beer cooler is over on the Celette bench!

I guess now I know. =o)
I really like knowing all the options for a 5 lug conversion.




Oh, the camera must have been drinking, and we are seeing the effect a drunk camera has on things.