IMHO, anybody who ends a sentence/headline with " - Guaranteed" is lying ...

I think if you keep your tires inlated well, the car tuned up and drive conservatively with a goal toward fuel economy and you can get those kind of results with almost any vehicle.

I'm a chemical engineer working in the nuclear field now, but I do remember something of my combustion engineering course and organic chemistry courses. My first read of this, and some brief research, seemed to indicate that it actually could be effective ... but it depends on the car, driver, conditions, and probably some no small amount of psychology. I've observed that when it comes to things like this, people want to see improvement and will actually changing their driving habits, in the process becoming more efficient drivers.

This whole website is touting the effects of adding organic chemicals of the family called "esters" to gasoline. I know this is done for diesel, both to stablize it for burning at lower temperatures and to improve efficiency and performance, so it would seem perhaps this would positively affect gasoline engines as well. Probably a different ester (there are whole slews of them, they're a family of organic compounds that actually tend to smell very nice - look up a Wiki article on "ester" for much more).

I think this is not so much about a product that will lower the effective volatility of the gasoline mixture (which seems to be a lot of what the initial discussion / background over-simplification discussion seems to be about). Gas companies already add all sorts of things to improve volatility, and most modern cars (unless they're made in Britain it seems) don't have serious issues with lower-volatility fuels even in extreme heat (vapor lock), probably due to improved fuel pumps operating at higher pressures, as well as better fuel lines.

Also, I don't think the explanation that esters "break up" the "thick, heavy gasoline molecules" is entirely accurate - it's more of an explanation one would give to a child, and isn't really explaining much. I don't think esters are actually catalyzing the gasoline-oxygen chemical reactions as much as they are helping combust the initial byproducts of some of the first, or quickest combustion reactions that occur - overall, improving the combustion process to more simpler end products (reducing pollution, but actually increasing carbon dioxide output). This is what probably is reducing the so-called "engine wear" due to buildup as well as all the carbon black that's all over our exhaust pipes.

I have to be honest. I'm not entirely certain what's going on exactly with the esters being added, but I think it's probably some sort of reverse esterification reaction that affects some of the fuel and it's volatility. Esters can react to form alcohols that in turn burn "better" than some of the things in gasoline, as most people already know or have been told many times over ("ethanol added to improve fuel economy"). That apparently is part of the formulation, a smaller ester molecule (there are two, it appears) in this "Ethos" that improves full combustion of hydrocarbon molecules to the ultimate carbon dioxide, instead of carbon black that sticks to metal. The second ester molecule apparently helps reduce that "sticking" of carbon black to metals, and is apparently good for lubricity as well. (I love that word ... lubricity ... )

The timing of the multiple combustion reactions that occur is nothing short of superultramegacomplex. There are people at DOE laboratories (I've met a couple) that use some of the fastest supercomputers in the world to try to model all of the combustion reactions occurring in a few milliseconds in the cylinder of a combustion-chamber powered engine. It's seriously complicated shit, in other words. I've wanted to study the myriad of chemical reactions that occur in a cylinder, but I ain't that bright. And I don't have a a spare $billion or two to get the computer together I'd need.

Some research online turned up a couple patent applications that helped me with the above, but nothing really all that knowledgeable except other references to this same product. I did come across some people trying acetone with some limited but similar results claimed by the ester guy. Acetone is not an ester, but a ketone - somewhat similar to esters in that it has oxygen double bonded to carbon, as esters do, but lacking the complexity of esters. It's a great solvent, as I'm sure many people here could vouch for.

Also, I found that esterification is an important part of stablizing biodiesel fuels, particularly for colder climates. So having esters in diesel is desirable. Perhaps something similar is occuring in a gasoline mixture - esters can be reacted to their "parent" alcohols. In fact, a process called "saponification" is where esters in fats (animal or plant) are converted to alcohols and acid salts (glycerol and fatty acids respectively in this case), making soap. Maybe that's how it cleans the engine.

- Nelson (waiting for new brake rotors, with time on his hands)

The guy offered 7 -19% improvement. I think if you keep your tires inlated well, the car tuned up and drive conservatively with a goal toward fuel economy and you can get those kind of results with almost any vehicle. Granted that's not easy for a bunch like us. Also, how easy is it to measure a 7% increase.

IMHO, anybody who ends a sentence/headline with " - Guaranteed" is lying ...

Andy

PS: the whole ad sounds like one of them fake viagra webpages ...

I'm a chemical engineer working in the nuclear field now, but I do remember something of my combustion engineering course and organic chemistry courses. My first read of this, and some brief research, seemed to indicate that it actually could be effective ... but it depends on the car, driver, conditions, and probably some no small amount of psychology. I've observed that when it comes to things like this, people want to see improvement and will actually changing their driving habits, in the process becoming more efficient drivers.

This whole website is touting the effects of adding organic chemicals of the family called "esters" to gasoline. I know this is done for diesel, both to stablize it for burning at lower temperatures and to improve efficiency and performance, so it would seem perhaps this would positively affect gasoline engines as well. Probably a different ester (there are whole slews of them, they're a family of organic compounds that actually tend to smell very nice - look up a Wiki article on "ester" for much more).

I think this is not so much about a product that will lower the effective volatility of the gasoline mixture (which seems to be a lot of what the initial discussion / background over-simplification discussion seems to be about). Gas companies already add all sorts of things to improve volatility, and most modern cars (unless they're made in Britain it seems) don't have serious issues with lower-volatility fuels even in extreme heat (vapor lock), probably due to improved fuel pumps operating at higher pressures, as well as better fuel lines.

Also, I don't think the explanation that esters "break up" the "thick, heavy gasoline molecules" is entirely accurate - it's more of an explanation one would give to a child, and isn't really explaining much. I don't think esters are actually catalyzing the gasoline-oxygen chemical reactions as much as they are helping combust the initial byproducts of some of the first, or quickest combustion reactions that occur - overall, improving the combustion process to more simpler end products (reducing pollution, but actually increasing carbon dioxide output). This is what probably is reducing the so-called "engine wear" due to buildup as well as all the carbon black that's all over our exhaust pipes.

I have to be honest. I'm not entirely certain what's going on exactly with the esters being added, but I think it's probably some sort of reverse esterification reaction that affects some of the fuel and it's volatility. Esters can react to form alcohols that in turn burn "better" than some of the things in gasoline, as most people already know or have been told many times over ("ethanol added to improve fuel economy"). That apparently is part of the formulation, a smaller ester molecule (there are two, it appears) in this "Ethos" that improves full combustion of hydrocarbon molecules to the ultimate carbon dioxide, instead of carbon black that sticks to metal. The second ester molecule apparently helps reduce that "sticking" of carbon black to metals, and is apparently good for lubricity as well. (I love that word ... lubricity ... )

The timing of the multiple combustion reactions that occur is nothing short of superultramegacomplex. There are people at DOE laboratories (I've met a couple) that use some of the fastest supercomputers in the world to try to model all of the combustion reactions occurring in a few milliseconds in the cylinder of a combustion-chamber powered engine. It's seriously complicated shit, in other words. I've wanted to study the myriad of chemical reactions that occur in a cylinder, but I ain't that bright. And I don't have a a spare $billion or two to get the computer together I'd need.

Some research online turned up a couple patent applications that helped me with the above, but nothing really all that knowledgeable except other references to this same product. I did come across some people trying acetone with some limited but similar results claimed by the ester guy. Acetone is not an ester, but a ketone - somewhat similar to esters in that it has oxygen double bonded to carbon, as esters do, but lacking the complexity of esters. It's a great solvent, as I'm sure many people here could vouch for.

Also, I found that esterification is an important part of stablizing biodiesel fuels, particularly for colder climates. So having esters in diesel is desirable. Perhaps something similar is occuring in a gasoline mixture - esters can be reacted to their "parent" alcohols. In fact, a process called "saponification" is where esters in fats (animal or plant) are converted to alcohols and acid salts (glycerol and fatty acids respectively in this case), making soap. Maybe that's how it cleans the engine.

- Nelson (waiting for new brake rotors, with time on his hands)

IMHO, anybody who ends a sentence/headline with " - Guaranteed" is lying ...

Andy

PS: the whole ad sounds like one of them fake viagra webpages ...

I was gettin' 27. Then I drank a 750 ml bottle of Cassadores and pissed in my tank. I got 33 after that.

VIAGRA IS FAKE!!!?????

See Elliot, like Dumbo's magic feather, and all this time you've been doing it by yourself.......

O.K. This is a 914 World, Exclusive only offered here !!!

For $15.00 i will fart in a 1/2 qt. mason jar,send it to you,open jar,place over

gas filler leave there for 2 yrs. it will combine will gasoline by my secret

process , And I guarantee a 32.6143 0/0 increase in fuel economy. Hurry

while the supply lasts. Dave

I don't think esters are actually catalyzing the gasoline-oxygen chemical reactions as much as they are helping combust the initial byproducts of some of the first, or quickest combustion reactions that occur - overall, improving the combustion process to more simpler end products (reducing pollution, but actually increasing carbon dioxide output).

Great post, Nelson!



OK, here's my question... if the goal is to improve the combustion of the fuel in the cylinder, doesn't an MSD box do essentially the same thing? It sends a bunch of sparks into the plug, in theory starting multiple flame fronts in the turbulent fuel-air mix.

Multiple spark only occurs at lower rpms to more complete the combustion process. Twin plugging is another method of improving flame travel.

See Elliot, like Dumbo's magic feather, and all this time you've been doing it by yourself.......

I'm a chemical engineer working in the nuclear field now, but I do remember something of my combustion engineering course and organic chemistry courses. My first read of this, and some brief research, seemed to indicate that it actually could be effective ... but it depends on the car, driver, conditions, and probably some no small amount of psychology. I've observed that when it comes to things like this, people want to see improvement and will actually changing their driving habits, in the process becoming more efficient drivers.

This whole website is touting the effects of adding organic chemicals of the family called "esters" to gasoline. I know this is done for diesel, both to stablize it for burning at lower temperatures and to improve efficiency and performance, so it would seem perhaps this would positively affect gasoline engines as well. Probably a different ester (there are whole slews of them, they're a family of organic compounds that actually tend to smell very nice - look up a Wiki article on "ester" for much more).

I think this is not so much about a product that will lower the effective volatility of the gasoline mixture (which seems to be a lot of what the initial discussion / background over-simplification discussion seems to be about). Gas companies already add all sorts of things to improve volatility, and most modern cars (unless they're made in Britain it seems) don't have serious issues with lower-volatility fuels even in extreme heat (vapor lock), probably due to improved fuel pumps operating at higher pressures, as well as better fuel lines.

Also, I don't think the explanation that esters "break up" the "thick, heavy gasoline molecules" is entirely accurate - it's more of an explanation one would give to a child, and isn't really explaining much. I don't think esters are actually catalyzing the gasoline-oxygen chemical reactions as much as they are helping combust the initial byproducts of some of the first, or quickest combustion reactions that occur - overall, improving the combustion process to more simpler end products (reducing pollution, but actually increasing carbon dioxide output). This is what probably is reducing the so-called "engine wear" due to buildup as well as all the carbon black that's all over our exhaust pipes.

I have to be honest. I'm not entirely certain what's going on exactly with the esters being added, but I think it's probably some sort of reverse esterification reaction that affects some of the fuel and it's volatility. Esters can react to form alcohols that in turn burn "better" than some of the things in gasoline, as most people already know or have been told many times over ("ethanol added to improve fuel economy"). That apparently is part of the formulation, a smaller ester molecule (there are two, it appears) in this "Ethos" that improves full combustion of hydrocarbon molecules to the ultimate carbon dioxide, instead of carbon black that sticks to metal. The second ester molecule apparently helps reduce that "sticking" of carbon black to metals, and is apparently good for lubricity as well. (I love that word ... lubricity ... )

The timing of the multiple combustion reactions that occur is nothing short of superultramegacomplex. There are people at DOE laboratories (I've met a couple) that use some of the fastest supercomputers in the world to try to model all of the combustion reactions occurring in a few milliseconds in the cylinder of a combustion-chamber powered engine. It's seriously complicated shit, in other words. I've wanted to study the myriad of chemical reactions that occur in a cylinder, but I ain't that bright. And I don't have a a spare $billion or two to get the computer together I'd need.

Some research online turned up a couple patent applications that helped me with the above, but nothing really all that knowledgeable except other references to this same product. I did come across some people trying acetone with some limited but similar results claimed by the ester guy. Acetone is not an ester, but a ketone - somewhat similar to esters in that it has oxygen double bonded to carbon, as esters do, but lacking the complexity of esters. It's a great solvent, as I'm sure many people here could vouch for.

Also, I found that esterification is an important part of stablizing biodiesel fuels, particularly for colder climates. So having esters in diesel is desirable. Perhaps something similar is occuring in a gasoline mixture - esters can be reacted to their "parent" alcohols. In fact, a process called "saponification" is where esters in fats (animal or plant) are converted to alcohols and acid salts (glycerol and fatty acids respectively in this case), making soap. Maybe that's how it cleans the engine.

- Nelson (waiting for new brake rotors, with time on his hands)

See Elliot, like Dumbo's magic feather, and all this time you've been doing it by yourself.......

Snippo™ ... for windproof snippage.
SO... Can I replace my gas magnets with this or not?