with the bill S.B. 1549 about changing the smog for pre-1976 cars, and the German laws about classic cars in urban areas, what is your input, and feelings.

I have to write a research paper for my English class, and i chose this topic becasue i def. have a stance on it (opposed to these laws) and it does concern me becasue i own an old car. I figured that a great addition to the paper is other peoples opinions and reasons for their opinions becasue this concerns almost everyone. If this smog trend continues, more states and governments will go after our 'polluting' old cars on the road.

So please chime in!!

Thanks in advance for your input!


-Ben

If we want to do something about pollution we should quit breeding consumers like we live at a religious compound in Texas for gods sake. Either that or figure how many people buy gas in this country and come up with a system to ration what fuel we have left. The guvnincompoops job would be to import less fuel each year. Americans would be free to buy or sell their coupons for fuel or burn them all up in one day driving their hummer retrofitted with the QE2 engine if that put lead in their pencil. I would ride my bike to work so I could blast about in the 914 like Dr Jeckyll now and then. People who have to commute a 100 miles a day better figure out how to carpool, ride a bus, hitchhike or learn to ultramarathon. This might stand a better chance of curbing the global obesity disaster if anything. Hmmmm....... Maybe I could set up a liposuction clinic with direct conversion to biofuel............Hotdang....I've just pulled us back from the precipice of energy collapse. Wheres my Nobel prize by the way???

The 75-76 cars with stock equipment are already reasonably clean. If the choice was not driving the 914 or driving the 914 with smog gear on it we should consider mounting the smog gear. A cat would be relatively easy to mount.

See my webpage on 914 emissions:

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibles/Emissions.htm

It’s easy to see why the state would consider removing older cars from being smog exempt. In California, smog is a real problem that affects millions of people’s health and quality of life. As a result of smog really getting out of control in the 1960’s, California first required PCV valves to control hydrocarbon crankcase emissions in 1963. In 1969 Air Quality Standards were set by the new California Air Resources Board for total suspended particulates, photochemical oxidants, sulfur dioxide, nitrogen dioxide, and carbon monoxide. These were important standards that were imposed on the people’s will as a direct result of SMOG getting totally out of control in the larger California cities. Since the 1970’s, there have been numerous requirements placed on motor vehicles that are based on limiting dangerous and potentially poisonous car emissions.

On one hand, we Californians like to bitch about all of the regulations we live under. On the other hand, when I can’t see across the valley, or even a few miles up the road because of high smog levels, I wonder what the hell I’m doing here in SOCAL, breathing this brew of noxious fumes.

As for removing the 1975 and older exemption, I think there is a problem of perception by many local citizens. When most people think of a 1975 car, they probably think of the Buick LeSabre, the Pontiac Vega, the Ford Pinto or a Dodge Dart. The thoughts that this might negatively affect the classic exotic cars such as Porsche, Ferrari, and Bricklin are probably not being considered. Where I think almost everyone would like to see a smoking 1975 Buick LeSabre removed from active service, I do not believe the public has a desire to remove well maintained classic cars from the roadway. The question becomes, how do you make the distinction? Most of us have spent a small fortune in upgrading our teeners from an oil-leaking, smoking old beat-up car to a non-leaking, non-smoking, excellent running classic car. For many of us, this is a commitment. However, the general population does not understand our passion for these automobiles, or even understand what these cars represent.

BTW: California does not currently offer a “Classic Car” license plate, which might be a good answer to allowing older classic cars top remain on the road.

Anyway, lots of words, no answers… just my $.02.

http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?ID=/...SANcom/HomePage

Lots of info there.

Good luck.

if you could retrofit your classic with a cat in a way that was tasteful

would you?

If I had to retrofit mine with a cat to keep it on the road, I would do it in a second. However, until somebody forced me, I wouldn't consider it.

To some extent it comes down to a personal issue. I am against foreign oil, and smog, and badness where ever I see it. But when I'm filling my tank at a gas station, well that's different. It now becomes my car, my personal liberty and all that good "apple pie" stuff. Back on the road, I once again scowl at those big gas-burning vehicles that cause us to import oil.

the community, if it chose to, could take proactive steps to make their cars cleaner.

I doubt 914 owners have the sack for it though.

It's not the old classic cars that are the problem....it's the unregulated engines that are....

Agricultural engines used to pump water, supply power, and other needs out in the boonies have little or no controls. Ships in the channel burn cheap shitty high sulfur bunker oil in two stroke diesel motors......right now that's the largest source of emissions in my jurisdiction. The US EPA refused to enforce their own rule (on direction from W's minnions) and my agency is now suing US EPA to get them to do something. Then factor in portable towed engines, like concrete pumpers, wood chippers, aux engines in street sweepers....

CARB and the local air districts are now inventorying ag engines and other portable engines and phasing out the older dirty motors....they are also phasing out high sulfur fuel.

Going after early motor vehicles, especailly ones with one year only control devices that are NLA is stoopid. BAR needs to modify rules that would allow mods to intakes systems so that you can do an upgrade w/o getting zapped from changing from stock systems.....

I'm STILL pissed at Arnold for signing that law that repealed the rolling 30 year exemption.

So does it apply to existing owners cars or new registrations?

I think I saw that it will be necessary if you are registering a new to you pre-'75 car.

But then again, I am probably senile...

If it only applies to new registrations, does that drop my resale value to $0.00? If it can't be registered in a new owner's name, would that also allow insurance companies to place an extremely low value on a wrecked 914?

keep in mind, we are only a small segment of all the classic car market.

This of us doing this, with all the 356 owners, all chevelles, camaros, old ferraris, etc.

I personally think its an attack on a small car market. We have alot of classic cars combined, but we arent the worse of the pollution problem. We dont drive them everyday, and the argument is to clean up these 'dirty' cars, but most are pretty solid, and even still, its like, it would be expensive to do, hard to enforce, and basically have little positive effect while hurting our wallets in this already slow economy.

Es ist Bulle Excrament

Sounds like the classic "divide and conquer" strategy. You start by whittling away the rights of a group of people when that group is too small to prevent it from happening. Since most people don't hav classic cars in their garages, the voice of opposition is unlikely to be overwhelming.

I think it is important to look at how much these cars really get driven. Is the little bit that they are driven really a problem? If you have a car that is 30 years old and still running I would guess you are not driving it every day. I think it is very acceptable to allow 30 year old cars to be exempt from emissions. I think it is silly to try to force people, who wish to drive a car like ours once every now and again, to make their car run as clean as a new car.

That's what's so BS about the proposed law(s). What percentage of cars on the road on any given day are 30+ years old? 1 in 50? Maybe? And smogging them is going to have a measurable impact on pollution reduction? Whatever! It's another "feel good" law that we dont need on the books and wont do anything beneficial for the ecology.

But since, as stated above, we're a relatively small community, with minimal lobbyists, we're an easier target than the gross polluters like Mike referenced above.

would you sacrifice some performance to make your teener cleaner?

that was the magick word ...


this same issue comes up every year. like clockwork someone submits the proposed change. so far, it has never gotten very far ...
Andy

PS: and just to clarify, right now, we're only excempt from the TEST!!! our cars still have to meet the emission standards of the year they were imported!

true, though my car technically doesn't pass smog. Its the 49 state '73 1.7, but we (my mom) brought it to california back in 75. Every test she had to do she would go to the shop, detune the car a bit, then afterwards raise it back up becasue it would fail (when we didnt do that it did fail lol)

I think my argument is just the idea. We as the classic car community seen to be an easy target.

These laws ARE NOT written to clean up the air in California. They are written and proposed by polititions who are out to make a name for themselves. There have been many, many propositions on the California ballots the past 20 years that although may seem like a good idea at first, are iether impossible to fund, or impossible to implement and enforce or are simply not needed. The DMV knows exactly how many cars 75 and older are on our roads. It has to be a very small amount and these cars are driven very few miles a year.

Having said that. There is a lobbying group that is hard at work against these kinds of useless laws. It's call SEMA. Speciatly Equipment Market Association. Google sema and log on to their web sight, wright them a letter, send an email and while you're at it send a letter and email to your state representatives and senators telling them of your concern about a useless laws limiting these old cars. Arnold has some very powerful friends (Jay Leno etc.) who are absolutely against this kind of legislation and I'm also pissed that the 30 year rolling exemtion has not been re-implemented.
Cheers, Elliot

Oh boy! Caleefornya!

Let's just say this thing passes. Futher, let's say that the rest of the US takes note of it. We are NOT talking about 914's here, but EVERY classic car on the road.

And that would amount to, in my gut estimation, maybe 1% of the registered cars in the country.

Hmmm! Those of us with '32 Packards & '66 Shelby cars have the ability to save the planet (not that I have either of these). My God, we have such power?

Makes me wonder just how much power the Doctor has, or anyone who has a collection of classic cars. Also makes me wonder why they won't save the world, by cat equipping all the classic Ferraris, etc they own.

Ruthless, inconsiderate bastards! While we're at it, shouldn't the Doctor be required by law to give us all his parts?

Read Atlas Shrugged, by Ayan Rand. I've read it 6 times over 30 years, just to remind me of my conservative roots.

This sooo sucks!
Pat

In Washington state if your car is 25 years or older you do not have to go through emissions or pass any test. Of course I suppose this could change. What I don't understand is that if you have a car that does not pass emissions you can spend some money at a STATE recgonized repair shop and get a waiver regardless if it passes or not, after you have spent a certain amount of money.

I do agree with Pat that the classic cars that are 25, 30 years or older only make up a very, very small percentage of the cars that are on the road today.

We are the ones causing the problem?

The worst case scenario is that lawmakers would require all cars to comply with the requirements at the time they were manufactured, with some consideration for NLA parts. While that presents its own set of significant problems, I cannot imagine that stricter requirements than were in place when the cars were new would ever be enforceable. A 30 year old car will never have to be made more efficient than it was originally designed to be.

Not unless that was the only way I could legally get it on the road, and even then......?

Really? Six times? You know it's Ayn Rand, not "Ayan", then, right? And you know she hated Ronald Reagan?

You're a glutton for punishment, aren't you?

Seems odd to be worrying about pre-75 cars.

I'm looking out my window right now down at the parking structure and out of what must be a few hundred cars, there are exactly zero that are '75 or older.

We're talking 33+ year old cars. What kind of weirdo would drive a 33+ year old antique? There just aren't many of them on the road any more.

Hey, I resent that!! I drive mine every day.