So, as the title says.
Do these multi spark systems work with DJet?

If so, are there improvements?
I am not looking for more power, but more MPG...more efficient burn.

Rich

I have seen a bolt in twin spark type 4 dizzy.
Unfortuneately I have no idea why its maker hasn't brought it to market yet.

(Might be because there aren't many twin spark motors)

It would be compatible with with DJet no problems.

I think he's referring to MSD systems, such as the MSD analog box and the Mallory Hyfire VIA MSD box.

Yes, they help. Provide a much better controlled spark, multiple sparks (4) under 2800 RPMs.

I know one guy who is a real MSD believer. Its got me thinking about it...

I'm an MSD believer... Running a Hyfire VIA box and loving it.

A very good BANG for the buck, You should feel it in proformance. Make sure to gap the plugs about 45.
My cars seem to run cooler with the MSD and fuel pressure at 32psi.

Did any of you experience better mileage, or more power on the track?
I am looking for better mileage.

Also, can MSD use ignition points? I wont go to a petronix...to flaky.

Rich

I had a Mallory Hyfire on my Djet and it just would not idle evenly. It would surge and then die. I spent many painful hours using a variety of adjustments. Sent it back to Mallory, as I thought it was defective. The replacement did the same thing. I was using their recommended coil too. I'd like to hear if anyone had better luck with MSD and Djet

Looking at doing the same, keeping the points and using one of the MSD Boxes.

Seems to be alot to choose from;

1. MSD 5520 - MSD Street Fire Ignition $149.99 Jegs
2. MSD 5-Series Ignition 109.99 Jegs
3. MSD 6-Series Ignition 184.99 Jegs
4. Jacobs Ignition ULTRA TEAM VW BUG 255.99
5. Hyfire 6A Ignition 141.00
6.Crane Cams HI-6 Ignition & LX92 Coil Kit 339.99
7. Universal Kit with Super Coil #110-140019 227.99


Etc, etc, etc.

What has been used for stock D-Jet or L-Jet and worked well?

Thanks

Smitty

Mine works good with the stock l-jet. No probs. I am using their tach adapter though, otherwise it the injection doesn't work.

Seems to me that Djet is using the trigger point for the FI...these are mechanically activated so as long as that part of the distributor remains, no tach signal will matter...but I assume.

The points worry me due to the fact that even now they tend to get pitted after 2-4k miles. They are cheap enough to replace, but I worry that with multiple sparks it may accelerate the process.

Rich

Interesting article that says points are ok, but says nothing about djet...

http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarticles/m...MSD_install.htm

Rich

Why would you stay with points? It seems an odd mix of new & old technology. How about a Pertronix? Orrrr, doesn't MSD provide an electronic points replacement?

I've been using Pertronix for about 15 months and never had a problem.

With MSD I'm told you don't need the tach adapter for the engine to spark correctly (2.0L D-Jet), but you need the adapter for the tachometer to work (kinda makes sense) .

From what I have learned about Petronix there is one benefit.
Pro...no longer need to adjust points, or set dwell.
This is part of a tune up, so its a good time for me to listen to the car and see how things are going.

Con, when they die (petronix) you are left stranded on the side of the road with no solution.
They cost alot. I can buy alot of points for what petronix costs.
It does nothing to improve the performance of the engine, it just eliminates the effort it takes to set up your points correctly. I like doing that.

Overall, if I have an issue with my $7 dollar set of points (two per year, so $14 per year), I reach in the glove box, put in a new set, use a matchbook (or even by eye) to set the gap and I can get home to my tools.
With petronix..call a tow truck.

BTW, I have never ever ever had a set of point leave me on the side of the road...ever.
They dont die...they wear out sure...but so do my shoes...I know when the point are wearing out..I can feel the performance degrade.

Rich

pertronix + Multi-spark box = flawless operation.

Did anyone make it so you could use the mallory unilite with trigger points yet for djet?


IIRC - SOMEONE was working on it

That was Mueller and he got them to work.

The reason the points pit is the current flows thru them to operate the coil. With MSD using point only a very small current flows thru the points to signal the MSD unit. The current thru the coil is done by the MSD unit. The rubbing block for the points will still wear so the will still need periodic adjustment/replacement.
I don't know if the MSD will interfere with the D-jet or L-jet systems, one or both use the tach signal from the points to determine if the fuel pump should be energized or not.

MSD can work with points or a mag pick-up, they also provide wiring diagram to wire in an ignition kill switch by grounding one of the signal wires.

I am hoping the MSD I just installed on my old RV will drop my idle HCs just a little so I can get passed smog again. I figured I had is sitting around I could try it.

Jim

A tach adapter or a simple wiring mod will give full functionality to djet and ljet

I've had a set of points and a 914 strand me.

When I use a pertronix, I keep a known good distributor in the trunk all set up and ready to go. One 11mm wrench, a little timing by ear and you're back on the road again and on your way home to the garage.

A condensor may have...but not points unless the contact fell off the point...then you really should have looked at them a bit sooner.

You keep a whole petronix and distributor in the trunk? So you have two petronix systems??? lol
Points fit in my glovebox....

Rich

I have been running the same MSD 6A box for 8 years with the stock points and Djet. Works like a charm and have only adjusted the points twice. Simple and effective. I too have had a pertonix failure-in fact it was only hundreds of miles after I got the car running. The D jet is irrelevant, but you must buy the "tach adapter" for the tachometer to work. I run this on my 2270 with a stock rev limiter. A few years back my car barely passed smog WITHOUT the catylytic converter and just the airpump on. I think thats pretty clean. I bought a 6AL box for my 3.0 six. Call JEGS/Summit they got it all. I used the MSD wires too.

Now that would be stupid. I'll clarify. Dizzy loaded up with points and condensor. Do whatever you want, but I personally don't like fiddling with points and I sure don't want to do it on the side of the road. A distributor will fit in your glove box too.

Truth be told it was the distributor with screwy contact plates that caused the points rubbing block to wear down to a nothing. I ended up replacing the whole damn thing. With guess what? A dizzy with a Pertronix installed.

I'm done. To each his own..

I know that everyone seems to be tiring of this thread, but just one more question...

Please explain to me the value of the multiple spark system. My understanding of ignition is that the timing of the spark is very important to the correct operating of the engine. Too early and you lose compression quality of the piston downstroke, too late and you lose the the quality of the fuel/air mixture (or some such stuff - I have no doubt someone will correct this with a better, more correct description). So with a multiple spark, aren't you risking late ignition of some of the gasses. And wouldn't the value of catching these un-ignited gasses only be valid in the case where the original spark is not firing correctly? And do you really want a late ignition to occur?

It just seems to me that if your spark plug is providing a correctly timed spark, there would be little to be gained by the multiple spark system

Sorry for all the questions, but thanks in advance for your reply.

A lot of those sytems ignite for 30 degrees of crank rotation to help ensure a complete burn. Multiple sparks at lower rpms. How much power/efficiency do you lose to a misfire or a partial burn? I do see erics point of a misadjusted ignition.

I finally passed my emissions test today after the 5th test and that was due to unburnt fuel at idle. I can see where a multi spark box can help address that issue.

Travis, just get a classic car insurance policy, then you are exempt. NO MORE EMISSIONS!

You are right on that, but I have to prove that I pass emissions first- shoulda coulda dunnit last year though.

I don't think so. Our vette failed and I got it registered. I took my policy binder in to the DMV and renewed it in person, no problem. I didn't even have to test the vette, but I wanted to see how it would do because I suspected it was rich at idle. And, I was right. But, I still registered it without making it pass.

Taking a 914 to emissions is probably the most painful experience. The monkeys can never shift the car right. Finally, I got the guy to start the car in 2nd and leave it in 2nd. That was the only way I could get a good test.

There is alot of unburnt fuel in our aircooled motors that gets wasted.
Its a factor of the head design and the location of the spark plug and the chamber design, along with the piston design.

This type of system shoots off multiple sparks that will ignite more of the fuel and create a more efficient burn on each stroke.
The spark is also hotter if properly installed with new wires.
Because the spark is hotter, more voltage is going to the plug.
You can run colder plugs and you need more of a gap...well you can use more of a gap. Its a bigger spark.

The idea behind this is to burn more of the fuel in the chamber instead of pushing it out the exhaust into the atmosphere.
The results are more power per stroke.

Rich

Rich; Thanks, this is starting to make sense. However, I still do not understand a hot spark versus a cooler spark. My understanding is that our 914s should run a cooler spark. If we run a hotter spark, do we compromise the fuel burn in the cylinder? And does a hotter spark mean a shorter spark period?

Again, my thanks.