Rand came over to help me get the starter out - mission accomplished, piece 'o cake. I went to install the new starter and dropped the washer that goes on the upper bolt. It appears to have fallen into a rectangular hole on the top of the tranny case. I've fished around with a magnet but no luck.

Hmmmm...bad luck as a mechanic and a fisherman.

So does this mean I have to drop the engine and open the tranny case or did it likely drop into some innocent cavity where it will rest at the bottom and not cause a problem?

Is there a purpose to that hole other than to prove Murphy is right?

The holes circulate air and heat for the clutch assembly. Just support the weight of the engine, disconnect the tranny mounts, and tranny / motor bolts, pull the tranny out a little bit and get it back.

Next time tape over the hole.

Brilliant!

(must make note to self)

Ya think? No other recourse? What if he starts it up and slowly outs it into gear, then if that isn't cause for alarm, try slowly leting the clutch out? How sure are you that the washer went into the hole?

Indeed. Guess when we thought of that? Right after Marc lost the washer and discovered Murphy's hole.



I was wondering the same. Actually, that's the biggest question to me.... IF the washer fell in that hole (Marc is pretty sure it did because it couldn't be found anywhere else), how risky is it? What is in that area of the case... Is there any risk it could get caught in a gear, or would it just settle on the bottom? I know, probably bad thinking, but I would turn the gears by hand enough to be sure that IF the washer landed on a gear it would fall off and to the bottom - then not worry about it.


Hey, you know those penny smashers? The souvenir machines in the tourist traps that you put a penny in and turn the crank? Marc, you might be able to make a 914 novelty washer. Haha.



Sorry man, this is a bit of a head banger. But I figure it's not as bad as the feared motor drop. Either it won't matter and you can ignore it, or you block up the back to the motor and just pull the tranny loose enough to get the washer out.... That is if it's really in there and fell to the bottom (or might have to turn things by hand to get it to fall down). But that is only speculation on my part.

HEY DR. E!!?? Or another tranny guru.... What's under that vent hole? Any risk of that washer getting into some gears??

The vent holes go to the area where the clutch, flywheel and clutch fork are. It wouldn't get into any of the gears. I'm not sure what it would do to the flywheel... if anything.

I'm going to try fishing with the magnet again; didn't run it down very far the first time around. If that doesn't work I'm going to chance it and hope it just lays on the bottom. Thanks for the advice.

My guess is that worst case, it gets lodged somewhere that causes the clutch to not engage properly and you burn it up. I can't imagine how it could damage the flywheel.

As long as it's in there, you'll be worried about it. I'd lean towards getting it out. When was the last time you replaced the clutch? While you're in there...

On the other hand... washers are round, and it's amazing how far they can go...

Whenever I drop something, I listen to see what happens. THEN I start cussin'.

Worst case, it falls into the clutch disc/finger/fork area and screws up your clutch function at an "inopportune" time - ie - your power shifting into second (yeah I know... ) and you go for the clutch and nothin!

Or worse it somehow gets into the disc / pressure plate area and screws your clutch and gouges your pressure plate.

I'd go for the quick disconnect and fish it out. You'll probably only need a couple of inches. You may need to rotate the clutch assembly so jack up and support the car well before you get under it.

HTH,

how did the washer fall off of the bolt? did you use a stock starter?

k

A couple inches???

Hey! I drive a 914....not a 911.

Yeah, stock starter. The washer slipped off the bolt while I was trying to get it on the bolt. I kept waiting for it to fall on my head like it did when I took the old starter off, but no such luck.

The more I think about what is under that hole, the less I worry about it. Not a lot of complicated gears under there, and all the teeth around have pretty flat tips and I can't picture anything that would catch, suck up, and eat a washer. I think it would bounce, fall, roll off, and land in the bottom. Flame me, but I would drive it.

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Will there be a test later?

Got it! Slipped a magnetic rod (about 4 inches) into the opening of the case at the bottom, where the clutch fork enters, and heard a very faint click...contact...pulled it out with the washer hanging on!

Time to button it all up and head for the AutoX in Bremerton.

Sweet!

First of all, the top bolt HAS NO washer on the starter side, unless it's a /6, in which case there are TWO washers and an Allen nut. From your list of cars, it appears your cat is a /4. The bottom stud gets one. If you dropped THAT one in the vent hole, you've got other issues. The head of the bolt locks into place in the starter, and from there the bolt goes through the case and engine top flange, where it gets a 10x17mm spring washer and a 15mm wrench size nut. The Cap'n

I was going by the way it was assembled when I took it out; the top bolt went through the engine flange from the engine side. The nut was on the starter side with a spring washer underneath. The way you describe makes lots more sense for removing/installing the starter. Thanks.

if the washer was sandwiched between the trans and the starter, the starter is pushed away from the fw. perhaps that's how the fw got chewed up over time. don't drop the washer upon r&r. with the bolt installed from the correct side it's a one person operation.

The washer was between the nut and the starter. Contact between the starter and tranny was direct. The flywheel seems to be ok, although the repacement starter - Bosch reman - appears to have failed after successfully starting four times. When I got out to Brememton today it wouldn't crank, although we established power to the solenoid. Compression start was easy at very low speed. The story continues.

Oh, this time I'll make sure not to drop the washer. Thanks for the advice.

Like the Cap'n said, the top bolt goes in with the head towards the rear of the car. No Washer. Use duct tape to hold the bolt on whilst you install nut from engine side.
And I think the washer could have screwed all kinda stuff if it got into the flywheel or throw out bearing.

no action at all from the new one? not even the soleniod activating? damn.

the green car started when you bought it, yes? if so swap that one out. return the new one and take it back in the 914. you can point out a serviceable USED one works just fine.

k

No action beyond a click. The green car was not a runner - no fuel system at present. Jon (Phoenix 914 6-GT) gave me one of his spares last night and it fired right up. I'm heading out on a half hour test run right now.

Thanks Jon.

shut the car off while pointing down hill!! haha. interesting about the green car. the cl ad never mentioned that as i remember.

Drove it at freeway speeds for half and hour and pulled it into the garage, shut it off and then fired it up again. All systems go - heading out to the VW Spring Meet in Enumclaw now.

Not out of the woods yet. Fired it up again and I could hear the starter gear drag as it retracted.

Do I need to shim the starter? How do I tell how much? Trial and error? I'm not going to be able to work on it for a couple of weeks because I'm heading out early tomorrow on vacation.

You shouldn't need to. How bad is it draggin?