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jd74914
The views really speak towards the craftsmanship. The work is awesome and your attention to detail is amazing. :trophy"

I think threads like this just increase the quality of everyone's work. Looking at your thread and others like Jeff Hail's are really good motivational tools for me. Now I feel compelled to finish every little bit to the best of my abilities. Thanks. smile.gif
g911
agree.gif Very nice work
749142
this is will be the sweetest modified 914 ive ever seen. keep up the awsome work. keeps me motivated
LarryR
I think the thing that I like the most about this project is the hint of old school hot rodding, coupled with excellent handling and extreme power.

What is not to like about this car. I cant wait to see it finished.
tdgray
icon_bump.gif

Anything... this is my favorite build by far... second only to Chappy's
plymouth37
Sorry for the lack of progress guys, the whole engineering degree thing is really eating up a ton of my time, I am averaging about 6 hours of homework a night, sheesh. I have 4 huge tests next week, after that I should be able to finally get some work done!
byndbad914
QUOTE(plymouth37 @ Sep 18 2008, 09:08 AM) *

Sorry for the lack of progress guys, the whole engineering degree thing is really eating up a ton of my time, I am averaging about 6 hours of homework a night, sheesh. I have 4 huge tests next week, after that I should be able to finally get some work done!

don't miss those days! Best o' luck with the exams.

while getting my BSME a few year back I carried 17 units, worked 40 hrs/week and had an agreement with my GF (now fiancee) that Wed night and Sat night were the only nights I could go out. Averaged 6hrs of sleep per night so I hear you. I didn't even touch my project during that period.

Got the BSME, got a better job, and went from idea and bodywork to running in less than a year. I did my engine conversion stuff as my senior design project with a full analysis of the engine mounts, etc - figure out how to make the car fit in and kill 2 birds with one stone aktion035.gif
charliew
The me is so important in your life. My son hotrods a STI but he is chomping at the bits for my start on the 914 suby. He has a great job as a me and a great place to work. He has dropped in on a Seibon vender in Oregon on a business trip to see why his damaged hood had taken months to resolve. He travels about once a month. He is single and has a great income and he also has a great mechanical apptitude. The science and math overwhelm me on my hotrodding challenges. On that subject he is outstanding. He only lacks the hands on that will come very fast as he helps with our fabbing projects. To him programming is a fun but very time consuming challenge. I took programming in college (to me very boring) but when it makes the car go faster it is way more interesting and of course very different.

GPA is pretty important in looking for a big job but the mechanical apptitude that you have is something that can't be taught.

I was too lazy to finish college in the 60's, I thought my mechanical apptitude was enough so I switched to Industrial Engineering, welding, machine shop, drafting and design and etc. Not as much boring math and science, a lot more hands on. Needless to say I never got to where I could just buy the car of my dreams.

really though I enjoy making things other people want to buy.
byndbad914
Charlie brings up a good point - the mechanical aptitude will serve you WELL. I didn't get my ME until I was 30 (started out of HS, dropped out of ME when the Aerospace (AS) economy collapsed in SoCal, got an AS in Auto Mechanics and an AA small biz mgmt degree and went off to hot rodding.

After getting my BSME I got a job with a large AS company.. with just a few weeks of experience messing with the simulation software I was asked to consider a structural issue. I applied all I had learned working on tube chassis cars and where tubes work and don't work, real world load paths, etc... I beat the senior analyst and the computers optimizing software and I could hardly use the software at the time. I was the lead on that in 3 months... out of college 3 mo. and a lead analyst.

I am not BSing or tooting my own horn, just making a point that instead of going straight thru college - doing the auto thing was a better education and put me further in my career than 5yrs of engineering experience would have. You will hands down kick the ass of every one of your classmates when the time comes to start interviewing assuming you keep a good GPA of course.

I had a guy one night in DiffEQ ask me why I was so greasy (would literally go straight from working on building race engines and managing that biz to class), told him about my work and he said "You're fuching up the curve. Engineers are supposed to be stupid from the elbows down!" I will NEVER forget that comment.
tronporsche
Dana, I know you are moving toward your design, but I have to ask you something. Since you have the skill, and are transfoming your car, but still have the 914 bloodline "look" (does that make sense ?) have you considered doing the front end like the "concept" car we have seen? I know what you are doing is a lot of work, but I just can't believe no one has done it yet.........Also- I know this sounds crazy, but for some reason, I keep seeing a chrystler 300 front end on a 914 !! I'm going to see if the computer artists can do one up to see what it would look like over in their post going on rite now (fake band challenge). Your car is looking great.
charliew
I have crossed paths with several engineers that can talk very effectvely but can't hold a wrench or turn it without going the wrong way first. On my son and my adventures I have repeatedly told him to try to take something apart that he has designed. He is amazed at the effort of some disassemblies we do and how awkard they seem. I told him the first time is always the hardest and if you do it every day on "high maintenance units" IBM's term for junk, you get real fast, it's called specialized. In his job he travels and supports a product he helped design and of course tries to teach proper maintenance, but sometimes the operators really frustrate him. Overall most of the good engineers I know have loved every job they have had though. My job fixing business machines was not nearly as rewarding, and usually depressing. Only when the asian competition came along did we see a improvement in or own designs. I know they sort of copied us but their engineering was better. Electro mechanical control versus relay logic/mechanical control mostly. Most jap bikes are many times over better engineered than a harley. Even the vrod is a take off of the 83 honda magna, 130 hp., and still not as powerful it is a better harley though.

To me the front of the 914 is screaming for improvement especially on the radiator cars.
carreraguy
QUOTE(charliew @ Sep 20 2008, 09:21 AM) *

To me the front of the 914 is screaming for improvement especially on the radiator cars.



As I recall, it was Dana himself who did this nice look on my car! Improvement enuf? ;o)

Click to view attachment

plymouth37
QUOTE(carreraguy @ Sep 20 2008, 04:46 PM) *

As I recall, it was Dana himself who did this nice look on my car! Improvement enuf? ;o)


agree.gif
I plan on keeping the front end pretty simple, I am planning on a F/G version of what I did on Tom's car except with the headlights in the foglight holes. Light and simple are definitely the two main driving forces on this build, oh yeah it has to look awesome too biggrin.gif .
I got 2 tests out of the way this week and have 2 more on Wednesday bs.gif , after that I plan on doing some more glassing before the weather turns. Progress will resume in a couple more days.
plymouth37
No big progress but given my crazy schedule I am amazed I got anything done!
The stock Boxster humps were made out of two thin fiberglass layers with a gap between them. Since I am doing extensive work on the humps I needed a thicker fiberglass base than the top layer was made out of.

I cut out the lower layer to expose bottom of the top layer.
Click to view attachment

I then added four layers of 'glass to the underside.
Click to view attachment

Now that the fiberglass is strong enough I can sand and smooth the final layer of 'glass on the top of the lid. This thing is almost done!
Click to view attachment

Hopefully I can get the rest of the 'glassing done before the snow falls biggrin.gif
r_towle
I still vote that you do the carbon fiber look (could be vinyl or just top coat) to the rear bumper, rear trunk, humps/decklid, roof, front trunk and front bumper...

Then leave the sides all metal exposed and clear coat that...

It would look awesome.

Rich
plymouth37
QUOTE(r_towle @ Sep 30 2008, 04:45 PM) *

Then leave the sides all metal exposed and clear coat that.


Or I could just replace the fenders and doors with 'glass and wrap the whole damn car in C/F idea.gif

Right now I am thinking about a simple non-metallic paint job, probably black or dark grey.
If I do a single stage I can spray it myself in my shop so I may go that route.
r_towle
might be interesting with flat black satin finish...

Or
Chrome paint...that would be cool.

Rich
Twise
Glasurit used to have this anthracite grey in a single stage. You could darken that up a bit and it would look dope. I like the idea of a black or dark grey - it will really show off the lines. Bling will just draw attention away from the shape of the body...

This is the first thread I have ever bookmarked. You got me checking this shit like every day. Keep up the good work...
sean_v8_914
Trev just turned me on to this insane build. sweet concept.
biggy72
I just finished up my ME degree in May. I really didn't have that great of a GPA and I will blame most of that on being in Formula SAE.... but I had a job before most of my friends so it worked out. Compared to the other younger guys I work with I am far and away more experienced at actually doing pretty much everything besides writing reports which I am catching up on pretty quickly. I don't know how much my boss is noticing of what I am capable of yet, but I know the guys in the shop notice it. Out of everyone at work I know the most about composite work and I learned it all because of FSAE.

How far into your degree are you? I know my junior year was the worst... and my senior year left me in the lab about 6 hours a day, then I would go home and do more hw.

What type of resin are you using for your fiberglass? If you want to make your glass parts lighter I would suggest pulling a mold off of the part you currently have, then make a new part with just the shape that you want. Also vacuum bag everything. We don't do it at work yet, but it only makes your work lighter and stronger, and it can be done pretty cheaply if you do it right.

After graduation, but before the FSAE competition I built the body for our formula car by myself in my garage. I wish I had a little more time and I wish the mold was nicer, but I think it turned out pretty well for only having about a month after work to build it.
plymouth37
Formula SAE looks like blast!
I have thought about pulling a mold off of the humps, I want to see how they end up, i they don't end up right a mold may be the way to go. Now that the 'glass is thicker I need to sand them down and lay on some primer, after mid-terms are over that is...
r_towle
QUOTE(plymouth37 @ Oct 17 2008, 03:09 AM) *

Formula SAE looks like blast!
I have thought about pulling a mold off of the humps, I want to see how they end up, i they don't end up right a mold may be the way to go. Now that the 'glass is thicker I need to sand them down and lay on some primer, after mid-terms are over that is...

Its Damn hard to find the time to work on these major projects...the little ones add up to suck up all available bandwidth some days...weeks..

I finally chopped, cut, sectioned and welded the fender on one side...
I will post up a few pics in my thread to inspire you to go out and tinker,,
Its really fun doing the custom stuff....its alot more freelance.

Rich
Loser_Cruiser
QUOTE(biggy72 @ Oct 16 2008, 11:55 PM) *

I just finished up my ME degree in May. I really didn't have that great of a GPA and I will blame most of that on being in Formula SAE.... but I had a job before most of my friends so it worked out. Compared to the other younger guys I work with I am far and away more experienced at actually doing pretty much everything besides writing reports which I am catching up on pretty quickly. I don't know how much my boss is noticing of what I am capable of yet, but I know the guys in the shop notice it. Out of everyone at work I know the most about composite work and I learned it all because of FSAE.

How far into your degree are you? I know my junior year was the worst... and my senior year left me in the lab about 6 hours a day, then I would go home and do more hw.

What type of resin are you using for your fiberglass? If you want to make your glass parts lighter I would suggest pulling a mold off of the part you currently have, then make a new part with just the shape that you want. Also vacuum bag everything. We don't do it at work yet, but it only makes your work lighter and stronger, and it can be done pretty cheaply if you do it right.

After graduation, but before the FSAE competition I built the body for our formula car by myself in my garage. I wish I had a little more time and I wish the mold was nicer, but I think it turned out pretty well for only having about a month after work to build it.


I ams like its gonna be pretty fun and I can get my car fix while Im away from the 914. piratenanner.gif
plymouth37
I finally had a weekend off and decided to do some welding today.
I plan on cutting out the rear trunk floor but decided to weld in some rear bracing first to ensure that nothing moves.
I am not really sure if this will drop any weight from the car but it should make it stiffer and easier to work on.

Click to view attachment

I welded in 1/8" steel plate as a base to weld the 1.5" diameter 1/8" wall tubes to.
I weighed the tubes, plates, and the difference in weight of my welding wire spool and found that the whole structure weighs 14.7 pounds, next I will cut out the floor and hope it weighs more than 14.7 pounds biggrin.gif .

Click to view attachment

I will probably also tie this rear structure into the roll cage.
The black structure you can see in the photos is the old mounting bracket for the retractable wings actuators, it will be removed along with the floor.

Click to view attachment
plymouth37
I cut out the rear portion of the floor and cleaned things up.

Click to view attachment

The removed floor section weighed in at 6 pounds so it looks like I will be able to drop 5 or 10 pounds by replacing the floor with tubing. piratenanner.gif
I should be able to remove the rest of the floor tomorrow.

Click to view attachment
Loser_Cruiser
QUOTE
I ams like its gonna be pretty fun and I can get my car fix while Im away from the 914. piratenanner.gif


Looking back at this it must have been margarita friday or something. drunk.gif Not meaning to hijack but I was try to say that Im joining the FSAE here at WSU pulman this week. I really admire all the work done on this car. I can not wait to get done with school so i have some real money to put into my car.
Zaney
GO COUGS! (Served my four years in Pullman 92'-96') drunk.gif


Awesome werk DANA!!!!
welder.gif Skillz baby skillz!
byndbad914
lookin' good - I sure wish I had something to weld dry.gif Mendeola is still waiting on shift forks to assemble my transaxle mad.gif

Typical "only takes two weeks to assemble and ship out" but they fail to mention the 4 weeks they will mess around waiting on parts. I will be lucky to have it before the really cold weather sets in.
PeeGreen 914
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Oct 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *

lookin' good - I sure wish I had something to weld dry.gif Mendeola is still waiting on shift forks to assemble my transaxle mad.gif

Typical "only takes two weeks to assemble and ship out" but they fail to mention the 4 weeks they will mess around waiting on parts. I will be lucky to have it before the really cold weather sets in.



I could drive my car down there and have you weld on it for me biggrin.gif
r_towle
WOW

You are a neat freak prior to your pictures...laugh.gif

How are you making it so shiny??? Wire brushed grinder???

Rich
byndbad914
QUOTE(Phoenix 914-6GT @ Oct 27 2008, 03:27 PM) *

QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Oct 27 2008, 03:07 PM) *

lookin' good - I sure wish I had something to weld dry.gif Mendeola is still waiting on shift forks to assemble my transaxle mad.gif

Typical "only takes two weeks to assemble and ship out" but they fail to mention the 4 weeks they will mess around waiting on parts. I will be lucky to have it before the really cold weather sets in.



I could drive my car down there and have you weld on it for me biggrin.gif

hahaha, Dana and I have talked about me trailering my car up to his place so he can finish weld whatever bracketry I need to make to mount the Mendy laugh.gif

Prolly don't want me welding - I was over at my friend's house a couple weeks ago and trying to practice with his TIG - I haven't really welded in probably 15yrs now (did in college and a little bit here and there after that) and I am WWWAAAAAYYYYY rusty hahaha. OMFG I about icon8.gif and gave up after an hour and had him weld some suspension stuff I reconfigured.
jonferns
Dana, I sent you a PM. bye1.gif
plymouth37
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Oct 27 2008, 06:45 PM) *


hahaha, Dana and I have talked about me trailering my car up to his place so he can finish weld whatever bracketry I need to make to mount the Mendy laugh.gif

Let me know whenever you get that beast, given the good weather we have been having we could probably still get it in this year biggrin.gif .

QUOTE
How are you making it so shiny??? Wire brushed grinder???

Yep, DA and a wire wheel, I love finding that nice shiny metal under the paint!

QUOTE
Dana, I sent you a PM

Sorry Jonathan the rear floor was screwed up from the rear wing mount so I junked it.

As for the car I just finished cutting out the rest of the floor and weighed it. It looks like I dropped 7.2 pounds by replacing the floor with tubes piratenanner.gif
My camera ran out of juice so I will post pics after it wakes up.
Brett W
Wow, you used .125 wall tubing? You could have easily done that with .065 or even .058 wall. Plus there is no flex back there to speak of. The chassis doesn't bend in the direction you put the bracing. You could have saved 50% of the weight and still had the necessary level of stiffness.

fat73
QUOTE(plymouth37 @ Jun 12 2008, 05:57 PM) *



Check out the stainless steel DC sports header I installed along with a custom up-pipe I built. Purty aint it?
It frees up some horses and is 12.2 pounds lighter than the stock manifold biggrin.gif


Dana,

Man.....I've been off the forum for wayyyyyy toooo long. I didn't know you were doing this to your car. Awesome work...just what I'd expect from you.

Is that the same custom uppipe as I have from Renegade? If so, I'd really like to get some of those headers for my car. Any idea what the hp + is?

I'm still running the stock ECU on my car. I have another one that I intend to get flashed one of these days. But with 0-60 4.5 seconds, 24,000+ miles with absolutely NO problems (short of one broken transaxle), 30+ mpg on the interstate, I'm hesitant to change a thing.

Ed Hunziker aka W9R1
plymouth37
QUOTE(Brett W @ Oct 28 2008, 08:57 AM) *

Wow, you used .125 wall tubing? You could have easily done that with .065 or even .058 wall. Plus there is no flex back there to speak of. The chassis doesn't bend in the direction you put the bracing. You could have saved 50% of the weight and still had the necessary level of stiffness.

When you live in a small town you use what you can find biggrin.gif I had to look really hard to find anything under 1/4" wall!
I am happy though, even with the thicker wall tubing I still lost a good amount of weight.
As for the design of the structure, almost every 914 race car I have seen is braced like this so I figure it must work just fine.

QUOTE
Is that the same custom uppipe as I have from Renegade? If so, I'd really like to get some of those headers for my car. Any idea what the hp + is?

My uppipe is a larger diameter than the renegade uppipe but the DC header will bolt right up to your car. If I remember correctly the gains were around 12-15 HP.
Brett W
The suspension does not twist that way. Just because everyone does it doesn't mean it is right. Look at how your suspension moves. The rear shock towers see no lateral load at all. There is no reason to build that structure in the rear of the car. All the metal after the shock towers is pretty much hanging on for the ride.

When you need small quantities of metal check out these guys:

www.speedymetals.com
fat73
QUOTE(plymouth37 @ Oct 28 2008, 10:56 AM) *

QUOTE(Brett W @ Oct 28 2008, 08:57 AM) *

Wow, you used .125 wall tubing? You could have easily done that with .065 or even .058 wall. Plus there is no flex back there to speak of. The chassis doesn't bend in the direction you put the bracing. You could have saved 50% of the weight and still had the necessary level of stiffness.

When you live in a small town you use what you can find biggrin.gif I had to look really hard to find anything under 1/4" wall!
I am happy though, even with the thicker wall tubing I still lost a good amount of weight.
As for the design of the structure, almost every 914 race car I have seen is braced like this so I figure it must work just fine.

QUOTE
Is that the same custom uppipe as I have from Renegade? If so, I'd really like to get some of those headers for my car. Any idea what the hp + is?

My uppipe is a larger diameter than the renegade uppipe but the DC header will bolt right up to your car. If I remember correctly the gains were around 12-15 HP.

Is it one of these headers?

http://www.racepages.com/products/?N=1719+917+4294965131

Thx...Ed
plymouth37
That looks like it Ed, any WRX header that does not incorporate an uppipe will fit.
I really like the DC header though, they make great stuff.
Good to hear from you buddy!
plymouth37
I finished cutting out the rest of the trunk. As you can see it will be so easy to work on the drivetrain and managing the cooling around the engine should be easier now as well.
I still need to do a little welding around the frame rails to get everything solid but it is getting close.

Click to view attachment

By cutting out the floor and welding in tubes I dropped 7.2 pounds which brings the total weight cut up to 434 pounds so far.

Click to view attachment

Now I have to clean up the drivetrain because it looks like crap behind the shiny tubing!


fat73
QUOTE(plymouth37 @ Oct 28 2008, 03:11 PM) *

That looks like it Ed, they make great stuff.
Good to hear from you buddy!

Dana,

I'm honored to be one of the few that have actually had an opportunity to take a ride in your car. That was the inspiration for building mine right from the moment you scared the hell out of me in Las Vegas rush hour traffic nearly 3 years ago. Thank you for all the work and engineering you put in at Renegade that made the Subaru WRX conversion feasible and practical, inspiring those of us who want to modernize and improve on the performance of our 914s without having to think too hard, do a bunch of trial and error, or have the engineering skills of you and some of the other superstars on this forum (you know who you are...tony, scott, et al).

By the way...I have my car garaged in Tennessee at the moment in my shop. I have a few things to do, like Carrera front suspension/brakes, new windshield, and yes....paint. I've got to decide what paint scheme to use to replace the old Martini style scheme ( ideas are welcome), but it's getting tired (30 years old) and has gotta be done. I just sold a really solid 72 roller (from Arizone) that I was gonna build, but have decided just to work on what I have. Maybe some day...

I continue to be amazed how many incredibly talented people there are on this forum. I can't wait to see how this unique hot rod turns out.

By the way all you die hard Porsche purists....Don't ever take a ride in one of these....You may find you will have some crow to eat. You'll want one too.

Ed aka W9R1
smdubovsky
QUOTE(Brett W @ Oct 28 2008, 04:27 PM) *

...
There is no reason to build that structure in the rear of the car. All the metal after the shock towers is pretty much hanging on for the ride.


Its not about the shock towers. Its about having to support the tranny ear loads (calculate the downward vertical force when you drop the clutch on a ???lbft motor in 1st gear). It sees more force than the motor mounts and people have torn those loose. Most people run the rear tubes to the shock towers because thay ALSO run the cage tubes to the rear shock towers, thus tying the tranny into the cage. Its simply a convenient place to bring the tubes.
plymouth37
Well put, I used to have bars running from the cage to the towers when I was running a type IV but I had to remove them to get the WRX engine to fit. I just started prepping the rest of my cage this afternoon to weld in some new tubes that will clear the taller engine.
Brett W
I was under the impression he was just doing the tubes and not connecting it to a cage structure.
plymouth37
QUOTE(Brett W @ Oct 29 2008, 09:45 AM) *

I was under the impression he was just doing the tubes and not connecting it to a cage structure.

Yeah I kind of mentioned that earlier but it was hidden between the pictures (I had a hard time finding it and I wrote the damn thing).
Anyway I am wondering how I should do this, I have seen some people go straight forward to the cage from the towers which would work well for fore and aft stress but not very good for twisting forces. On the other hand I could put another X across the engine bay which would help to counteract twisting forces but only do ok with the fore and aft forces (and look cooler biggrin.gif ). Any opinions?
r_towle
there is little twisting force there that you need to deal with.
the passenger compartment firewall and the rear tubes you put in provide the shear strength for that area...the firewall doing most of the work...

The twist is forward of that firewall...put the car on jack stands under each donut only...then rock the rear of the fenders and watch the door gaps and door alignment as you do this...
the rear of the car...firewall back moves as a unit...the twist occurs forward of that...basically right where the longitudinal cracks....
drop a line down from the top of the windshield to the long...that is the stress point..
You will see what I mean if you wiggle the chassis while its on jack stands under the donuts.

Rich
J P Stein
A couple things.
First, I am surprised at the weight savings. My eyeball job on the area told me that it would be minimal or a push. I've been wrong before. confused24.gif Taking weight out of the rear of a 914 is a bitch....7 lbs is significant.

Second. IMO you're doing it right....after you tie it into the roll hoop/cage. The hoop alone won't cut it for overall stiffness.

A lot of opinions ventured on the necessity of bracing various parts of the 914 chassis. Those are about as good as mine....except my chassis is stiff....for a 914. Could it be better, sure, I've seen better...or what appears to be better. Nobody has supplied numbers, just speculation. I don't have numbers either but my butt dyno revealed a huge improvement when I tied the front & rear towers into the cage.....shoulda done it sooner.
byndbad914
If I were me Dana I would hack that rinky-dink stock shock mount tower completely out and run a tube from the cage back near that area*, make a bend and head down to the trans mount and create a rear structure exactly like Paul (URY) did. Then I would weld a couple tabs on to mount a new, better shock with rod ends at each end. Get rid of that rubber crap in the stock shock (which puts a shock on your shock blink.gif and I would rather have a hard interface so the shock can do its job).

* I say near the area because you would need to have the bar in that region to create the upper mount.

Here is a shot of my shock assy and upper mount and what I am essentially describing.

Click to view attachment
jd74914
Dana, I agree with Tim. A friend and I were looking at pictures of the rear cutout this morning, and we were both thinking a mount like above would be the way to go. Its not too much more work, and really opens up a whole new world in relation to shock selection and mounting precision.
J P Stein
Due to some computer problems, I can't load the pic of a car which I think was done better and got rid of the "rinky dink" shock tower mounting of the shocks.

I think "Bads" frame is stiffer than most all racing 914......by God, it should be.
And, by God, he shoulda gotten rid of the rinky dink McPherson strut suspenders up front tho. biggrin.gif
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