Billy Boat?
Stock?
What else? I really would like to have heat in whitey when it gets a 3.2.

Depends on how much heat you are looking for.
I used this in my car last fall at temps below freezing and was surprised on how well it worked.
I dont drive my car during the winter here in Minnesota but the electric one worked fine at temps below freezing. It throws enough heat to keep the cabin warm and kept the windshield clear.

I usually grab my Patagonia fleece and some gloves when it gets too nipply for the shorts & t-shirt


Seriously I think GHL also makes heat exhangers. I have heard tons of "mixed reviews" of B&B as well as GHL, so buyer beware as usual.

chappy thanks for the thought, but I have something a little more conventional in mind.

Chris, I don't plan to drive it much in the winter, but it's nice in the fall to drive with the top off and the heat on. That's the only negative I'm finding right now about a conversion on a street car.

I'll check GHL see whats they gots.

I was going to fab up something around my headers, but realized that I really didnt need to get that involved since my car is really only used for warm weather. The electric heater really does blow well enough for my needs for now. If I ever fab up something you guys will be the first to know.

I'd get two of these...

Heaters

And install them in the dash to clear the window.

And then convert your seats to heated, and you should be warm, with a window you can see through.

GHL has 2 sizes both with/without heat exchangers $1650 for heat/pair. I requested pics and will post them here if they send me any.

A couple of the better-known 914-6 conversion guys (Rich Johnson and Perry Keihl) have had problems with getting the GHL exhangers to fit properly. Perry is still irritated that the setup he did for John Swanson will not allow the muffler to sit straight, even after he spent hours working on it...

--DD

I'm running 914-6 factory heat exchangers on my 3.2
They actually put out more heat than my four banger did.
The car still has plenty of power.
The only issue with the factory heat exchangers is that they only work with a center motor mount like the Rich Johnson mount.
They would not work with the PMS mount or the quick six mount.
I bet you could easily find a good set for well under $6-8k if you look around.
There was a set that didn't look to bad at the German Auto Fest.
There also might be a set at the upcoming Dunkle Bros swap meet next Sunday.

Good Luck,

Steve

I'd like to see them when you get 'em.

What about CF boxes on headers?


M

Carbon Fiber? Probably not a good idea, CF doesn't like heat.

beg to differ...

i've seen photographs of RED HOT CF aircraft parts.

clearly, there are worlds of differences in the matrix material...

i wouldn't trust just any ol' polyester or vinylester backyard layup - but there are hi-temp matrix materials out there somewhere...

Yup, looks like I'm wrong. I wonder if it's more the epoxies commonly available for hand layup, as there are lots of google hits recommending CF for it's ability to maintain strength in high temp environments.

I've got the BillyBoat solution, don't recommend it.

Fitment was poor out of the box, heater boxes block access to exhaust studs, muffler doesn't sit level, the funky heater boxes have very poor seals around the pipes, looks like they just "winged it" with a plasma cutter, no flanges, no real thought given to air flow or heat transfer. Bottom line is marginal heat, all for the bargain price of $1600-1800.

Keep looking, and don't forget the oxy sensor port if you're keeping the FI.

GHL sent pics of their 914-6 header with heat.

thanks for posting that; i had been interested in their system since they seem to be the only real player.

ick. i don't see how you could possibly get an equal-length tri-Y header into that bax - i guess they figure if you want heat, you don't care anything about performance...

can ya just run 911 HE's backwards - and sidepipes :-) ...

i'm beginning to think i can finance the whole restoration project if i sell my low-mile stock HE's ...

I wonder what the primaries look like inside the heater boxes. It appears that they must be quite a bit shorter that the usual six headers. Would that be a problem?

Mike

well, you're sacrificing torque and smoothness with boxes like that. I've been looking for pics of the BB. They don't list it on their web page anymore.
I'm thinking about investing in a tig welder and some stainless tubing and sheet.

Anyone have good pics of stock and b&b setups?

I swiped this pic from Jeff's thread.

I'm gonna come up with something slick for heat in my 3.6 conversion if it kills me. I really want defrost/heat, mostly defrost. I've entertained the following so far:

1 - stock HEs. I have a nice set, but have to hack them up for a 3.6 (not goin' there!)
2 - Headers and fabricating a heat exchanger of sorts, been there done that for aircraft. I know this will work, I just don't know how well.
3 - A gas heater. These were used in VWs, 911s, 912s and I'm sure others. I hear they're quite effective, but fitting to a 914 will be new ground.
4 - Use of oil cooler as a heat source. I've been told this will not be effective and in hind site I believe it.
5 - Thinking way outside the box.........An electric water pump circulating antifreeze through a coil wrapped around the exhaust to a heater core. Came up with this one after using brake cleaner in a closed air space! But I bet it would work!

Don't know what I'm gonna do yet, but I WILL HAVE HEAT!! Anxious to see what others have done. Good luck!!

You forgot an electric solution. I came across two solutions while looking into this problem myself, in the electric car websites. 1) Ceramic elements in place of the heater core and 2) a water heater/water pump/heater core combo. I'm leaning toward a ceramic element solution myself, in the dash using the factory fan and ducting. This is not real high on my priority list right now, so I'm not putting much effort into it.

I've got a set of both kicking around the house, let me know if there are any particular aspect of the h/e's that you'd want detailed shots of.

Anyone know anything about the Partick Motorsports units they used to sell? The pics on their page made them look identical to the B&B's. I called them once to try and figure it out by posing as an interested customer. Then never called me back

Brad informed me that the Patrick units wee B&Bs. FYI...........

Does or did SSI make 914-6 heat exchangers?

negative sir anthony.

You're kidding?!

Military jet exhausts are using composites in their thrust vectoring.

Carbon has a very high melting point. They make epoxy rated for thousands of degrees.


M

I should have kept reading before I spoke again.

My take on it, purely from what I have read, is that the best way to make a heat exchanger, would be to make sheets, cut parts to build a box, fuse them together, and have the ends of the box (on the pipes) made in metal. You could sleeve the metal bits on, then build the box around everything.

I should say 'the best way at home'..

Coolest thing about it would be making it all double walled, keep that much more heat out of the engine room, and move it up front.

Maybe a better (read way more complicated) way would be the pipes sleeved in larger diameter pipes, containing all the airflow, and a box built around that to insulate.


M

Gas heaters have come a long ways from the 60's. The new espars are small and light. I got one of these second-hand: Espar heater. I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I'm sure it's up to the task. It weighs 6 lbs will allow me to run headers with impunity .

It says diesel or kerosene. Where do you keep the fuel?

In the OEL thingy?

What is OEL? Do I need to add it? My car is cold!


M

The Espar heater looks cool! Nice size and output, but it only runs on diesel. I guess it wouldn't be a big deal to add a small tank for it. It says it only burns 6 10ths of a gallon an hour, so it wouldn't take much of a tank. Maybe a tank in the passenger side rear fenderwell to match the sixer oil tank?

Naw. They have petrol (gas) ones too. They're mostly diesel, b/c the big market now is cab heaters in semi's and boats. With so few (like none) aircooled vehicles nowadays there's not much demand for gas-fired heaters.

You could always try a 986 or 996 engine swap

I looked into that last year. I found a motor, but brad was already done with the suspension repair and to do a watercooled motor would require to remove the fix and start over, but on both sides.

I have heard rumors that SSI will build 914-6 heat exchangers, but a rumor that someone will begin making them pops-up every few years.

When Brad was part of the future of SSI, he was determined to get a good 914-6 header/exchanger available. Since he is no longer involved at SSI I don't know if that will happen, probably not.

I'd say the gas heater idea would be the best. Probably cheaper too. Gary: let us know how yours works out. If they didn't make the gasoline one, and just diesel you could always use the space left from the windshield washer tank, not too many of them work anyway.