We got a 1973 GA series 2-liter motor that had low miles but sat for a long time. The pistons and cylinders are gone, crank probably just needs ground, case is good, the 039-101-371A cylinder heads look great EXCEPT for one of the chambers. It is badly pitted from corrorsion.
Can it be used as is? Is there anyway to repair it without costing a small fortune? As one can see there are no usual cracks showing.
We want to rebuild the motor and replace the 1.7L in our 1972. I have the 2-liter injection system and want to keep it mostly stock. We will have to replace the pistons and cylinders. Any recommendations on which ones to buy? I would like to end up with about 100+ HP.
Thanks
jjs3rd914
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Full Version: Is this 2-Liter Cylinder Head Any Good?
Ugh, it's down in the plug threads. That will have to be fixed.
Ken
Ken
A Mothers power ball will polish that crap right out of there
QUOTE(kwales @ Jul 1 2008, 05:59 PM) 
Ugh, it's down in the plug threads. That will have to be fixed.
Ken
Thanks for the reply.
I can fix the plug threads as I have an insert kit. That should fix that part. I am concerned that the pitted surface may cause bad combustion, hot spots, etc. But on the otherhand, it might be fine the way it is, as we just want a stock motor.
QUOTE(jjs3rd914 @ Jul 1 2008, 06:10 PM)
QUOTE(kwales @ Jul 1 2008, 05:59 PM)
Ugh, it's down in the plug threads. That will have to be fixed.
Ken
Thanks for the reply.
I can fix the plug threads as I have an insert kit. That should fix that part. I am concerned that the pitted surface may cause bad combustion, hot spots, etc. But on the otherhand, it might be fine the way it is, as we just want a stock motor.
Plug is a much lesser concern than the valve seats. You will be getting them replaced right ???
..and the good chamber is cracked as well.. I can see the crack going into the plug threads plain as day. The "bad" chamber is also cracked.
All that pitting is called exfoliation. It is the most harmful form of aluminum corrosion... a 1/4" square portion of that will down an aircraft until its repaired. Thats how bad it is..
That deterioration will effect chamber size as well as cause some hot spots during combustion.. It will also make the chamber significantly weaker and more prone to cracking.
It looks like water sat in that bore for a long time... Water really makes this form of corrosion go wild..
and those seats must be replaced, they are also pitted.
I'd use this one as a book end...
All that pitting is called exfoliation. It is the most harmful form of aluminum corrosion... a 1/4" square portion of that will down an aircraft until its repaired. Thats how bad it is..
That deterioration will effect chamber size as well as cause some hot spots during combustion.. It will also make the chamber significantly weaker and more prone to cracking.
It looks like water sat in that bore for a long time... Water really makes this form of corrosion go wild..
and those seats must be replaced, they are also pitted.
I'd use this one as a book end...
The head can be repaired, but it will require a fair amount of welding to make it right, and ofcourse the machine work too. Labor intensive, and we all know what that means! It's a shame, as it looks like the head was cherry.
QUOTE(HAM Inc @ Jul 2 2008, 06:30 AM)
The head can be repaired, but it will require a fair amount of welding to make it right, and ofcourse the machine work too. Labor intensive, and we all know what that means! It's a shame, as it looks like the head was cherry.
Yea, the other head is very clean. Can't see any cracks on it. What's the going rate for a similiar head if I could find one?
Thanks,
jjs3rd914
Just because you can't see cracks in the other head, doesn't mean they're not there. As obvious as the cracks are in the "bad" one, it's really likely they're present in the "good" one, too. The Cap'n
QUOTE(Cap'n Krusty @ Jul 2 2008, 10:27 AM)
Just because you can't see cracks in the other head, doesn't mean they're not there. As obvious as the cracks are in the "bad" one, it's really likely they're present in the "good" one, too. The Cap'n
Yep.. Post pictures and I bet one of the trained eyes viewing the thread can see them..
Very few 2.0 heads aren't cracked...
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 1 2008, 10:22 PM)
..and the good chamber is cracked as well.. I can see the crack going into the plug threads plain as day. The "bad" chamber is also cracked.
All that pitting is called exfoliation. It is the most harmful form of aluminum corrosion... a 1/4" square portion of that will down an aircraft until its repaired. Thats how bad it is..
That deterioration will effect chamber size as well as cause some hot spots during combustion.. It will also make the chamber significantly weaker and more prone to cracking.
It looks like water sat in that bore for a long time... Water really makes this form of corrosion go wild..
and those seats must be replaced, they are also pitted.
I'd use this one as a book end...
I can't see the cracks. Could you describe where they are?
Crackage
Here are some additional photos. Many years ago I did a lot of NDE and I still have some dye penetrant. While this may not be the best test for cracks in this application, its better than my old eyes. The first picture is the pitted chamber. The next is the other chamber that indeed shows the start of a crack(s). Jake has a good trained eye. The next two are of the other head.
By all the comments I suppose the one head is scap. I was hoping to be able to slightly buff out the rough spots (pitts) and use as is until the cracks appeared.
Jake, if most 2-liter heads have cracks, does that imply that most 2-liter cars on the road are running with cracked heads, yet still operating okay? The cracks you see in this head, pitting aside, could it be used on a stock motor or is this wishful thinking and as pointed out, the head could become a book end!
Thanks to all for the time to read and respond.
jjs3rd914
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By all the comments I suppose the one head is scap. I was hoping to be able to slightly buff out the rough spots (pitts) and use as is until the cracks appeared.
Jake, if most 2-liter heads have cracks, does that imply that most 2-liter cars on the road are running with cracked heads, yet still operating okay? The cracks you see in this head, pitting aside, could it be used on a stock motor or is this wishful thinking and as pointed out, the head could become a book end!
Thanks to all for the time to read and respond.
jjs3rd914
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Unlike water-cooled heads, air-cooled heads can run for some time with cracks, and quite often do! The problems begin when the cracks spread far enough to reach a valve seat (on T4 heads these usually begin under the ex. studs) or until they migrate up the spark plug threads (big problem on the 2.0 heads) and the plug blows out or carbon wicks up the crack and interlocks the sparkplug to the head. That's when the head strips during plug changes.
BTW there is a second crack in the photo that Mark is using to point out a crack. Look over at about 2 0'clock on the plug threads. There is another crack forming that, left unrepaired, will head up the plug threads and toward the ex. seat.
It's one thing to drive around with cracks that are yet to be discovered, but to reassemble an engine using heads that have cracks known to cause trouble is gambling.
If I had a dollor for every 2.0 head I've worked on that had 0 cracks it wouldn't have paid for my lunch today!
BTW there is a second crack in the photo that Mark is using to point out a crack. Look over at about 2 0'clock on the plug threads. There is another crack forming that, left unrepaired, will head up the plug threads and toward the ex. seat.
It's one thing to drive around with cracks that are yet to be discovered, but to reassemble an engine using heads that have cracks known to cause trouble is gambling.
If I had a dollor for every 2.0 head I've worked on that had 0 cracks it wouldn't have paid for my lunch today!
QUOTE
BTW there is a second crack in the photo that Mark is using to point out a crack. Look over at about 2 0'clock on the plug threads. There is another crack forming that, left unrepaired, will head up the plug threads and toward the ex. seat.
Tyhats the first one I saw.
these heads crack in the same places time and time again.
To much dye and than to much developer. After the dye dwells for like 30 minutes, wipe it all off. Than use developer to draw it out of the crack. Very light misting not like a coat of sandable primer.
If I have a dollar for all the crack I've found.....wait that sounds bad.
Used to be Level II Mag, Dye, Ultrasonic, inspector. If you can't do you inspect. LOL
Smitty
If I have a dollar for all the crack I've found.....wait that sounds bad.
Used to be Level II Mag, Dye, Ultrasonic, inspector. If you can't do you inspect. LOL
Smitty
QUOTE(HAM Inc @ Jul 2 2008, 01:03 PM)
Unlike water-cooled heads, air-cooled heads can run for some time with cracks, and quite often do! The problems begin when the cracks spread far enough to reach a valve seat (on T4 heads these usually begin under the ex. studs) or until they migrate up the spark plug threads (big problem on the 2.0 heads) and the plug blows out or carbon wicks up the crack and interlocks the sparkplug to the head. That's when the head strips during plug changes.
BTW there is a second crack in the photo that Mark is using to point out a crack. Look over at about 2 0'clock on the plug threads. There is another crack forming that, left unrepaired, will head up the plug threads and toward the ex. seat.
It's one thing to drive around with cracks that are yet to be discovered, but to reassemble an engine using heads that have cracks known to cause trouble is gambling.
If I had a dollor for every 2.0 head I've worked on that had 0 cracks it wouldn't have paid for my lunch today!
Ham Inc,
Just wondering something about yourself. Tell me about your company & services & how you fit into the type-IV cylinder head business??? I often see your posts & was wondering what you do for Jake??? I assume you are one of Jake's trusted outside service people.
Hope you can give us a business dog & pony update what you do. The reason I am asking is I am going to do a side by side comparsion of new heads I purchased through Jake on LN Engineering Leading Edge 180 CNC 2.0 914 replica heads and my origianl 2.0 liter take off heads in a few weeks.
Tom
BTW: Everyone have a wonderful 4th. of July Holiday. I am out of here tomorrow for the holiday.
Len created those LE 180 CNC 914 heads that you purchased from me. Len does ALL my head work and we work together on TIV head development for street and track use.
When doing the comparison between the heads you'll note that the LE 180 was digitally replicated from a 2.0 stock head in both the ports and the chamber shapes. You'll see the added strength that Len's plug relocation offers as well as the smaller 12mm spark plug Vs the stock 14mm plug.
Len works in his own shop, about an hour from Aircooled Heaven, but he is an integral part of the family here and has assisted with the evolution of the MassIVe 4 engine.
I am sure Len can explain more :-)
When doing the comparison between the heads you'll note that the LE 180 was digitally replicated from a 2.0 stock head in both the ports and the chamber shapes. You'll see the added strength that Len's plug relocation offers as well as the smaller 12mm spark plug Vs the stock 14mm plug.
Len works in his own shop, about an hour from Aircooled Heaven, but he is an integral part of the family here and has assisted with the evolution of the MassIVe 4 engine.
I am sure Len can explain more :-)
QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Jul 2 2008, 07:15 PM)
Len created those LE 180 CNC 914 heads that you purchased from me. Len does ALL my head work and we work together on TIV head development for street and track use.
When doing the comparison between the heads you'll note that the LE 180 was digitally replicated from a 2.0 stock head in both the ports and the chamber shapes. You'll see the added strength that Len's plug relocation offers as well as the smaller 12mm spark plug Vs the stock 14mm plug.
Len works in his own shop, about an hour from Aircooled Heaven, but he is an integral part of the family here and has assisted with the evolution of the MassIVe 4 engine.
I am sure Len can explain more :-)
Jake,
Thanks .
My other questions, is Ham Inc & Len Hoffman @ LN Engineering the one and same person? I just don't recognize who Ham Inc. is????
Tom
NO!
For some reason lots of people confuse Len from HAM and Charles from LN Engineering.
Len's company is www.haminc.biz all Len does is cylinder head development and performance work along with head rebuilds. His work is limited to cylinder heads only.
Charles from www.lnengineering.com is the creator of the Nickies cylinder line.
These are two individuals owning their respective companies and those companies are in our RAPP (Ring of Aircooled Precision Performance) network.
We all work together to create TIV, 356 and now Boxster and 996 engines..
For some reason lots of people confuse Len from HAM and Charles from LN Engineering.
Len's company is www.haminc.biz all Len does is cylinder head development and performance work along with head rebuilds. His work is limited to cylinder heads only.
Charles from www.lnengineering.com is the creator of the Nickies cylinder line.
These are two individuals owning their respective companies and those companies are in our RAPP (Ring of Aircooled Precision Performance) network.
We all work together to create TIV, 356 and now Boxster and 996 engines..
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