Recently I discovered that PCA has what I consider to be an idiotic rule... You cannot run a racing harness in a track event if you are running stock seats. Seems they would rather have you use a 35 year old lap belt that won't even properly retract at times, leaving you bouncing around the inside of the car unable to properly control the car than use a modern racing harness. But what do I know....


So, I need some recommendations for some inexpensive racing seats, with holes in the backrest for the harness, that will fit on the stock 914 seat tracks. I am only going to use them for DE and TT/AX, so I want to be able to put the stock seats back in the car the rest of the time.


What works good in a 914????

remember also you must have a submarine belt between your legs and the passanger side has to be the same.Thats why mine is still stock.Just pick a seat you like with holes for the shoulder belts and the sub belt.As far a brands there a ton of them out there ..good luck and happy driving

I asked the same question back in February.
http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=80466
There's a link to yet another thread in that one.

I would have to read the rulebook, but is there anything prohibiting the use of 5 or 6 point belts if you are also using the stock, retractable seatbelts? Porsche used the same reasoning when it added another back window over the stock located rear window in the 935s.

If you do it, I'd recommend being friends with the tech inspector!

you can use racing seats with the stock belt i do and it seems to work ok not like a 5-6 point but your legal and the seats have good bolstering so they hold you in pretty well.if you do the 5-6 point on the drivers side you must do the same on the passanger side .doent make sence to me either because when im doing a track day no ones in the seat .If you just go with the race seat on the drivers side and stock belts you can leave the Passenger side alone and your good.thats my understanding but double check with the safty person in your region.The seat in my 1970 in made by Koenig and it fits real nice and looks real close to stock from the rear of the car .you cant hardly tell from the outside of the car i wish i had pixs maybe i can get some soon..Hope that helps

I can tell why the rule for the passenger seat rule is not idiotic. I have been a PCA instructor for over 20 years. Before this rule, I would get into a car with a stock seat on the right while the driver had a racing seat & belts. He would have the confidence to fling the car around and I would be basically flopping around. A very uncomfortable feeling to say the least, especially when your doing the instructing for free. Our region, while one of the 1st to have DEs and a very safe record, was lax about enforcing the rule, until the instructors demanded it. As an instructor with no direct control over the car, we should be put in a safer position. I personally have gotten to the point where I will no longer instruct in a car that has the stock set-up. I wear a HANS and have to have the proper seat and harnesses to do so. I have to think of myself first.

On the other hand, being an instructor and not being required to have a passenger/instructor, I take the passenger seat out of the car prior to the event. I have been asked way too many times if I would take people for rides. I'm not into that. Plus the added space without having the seat, let's me bring more stuff to the track, whether it be track tires, tools, dry clothes, etc.

T.C.

Well if you are willing to change the interior with some permanent modifications I really like my Sparco Evo2. Yhe Sparco Speed for my passenger seat is nice too.

You guys missed the point... PCA says you can't use a racing harness with a stock seat, not the other way around. I already have the harness. I can't use it at a DE. They would rather have me use a 35 year old lap belt that leaves me flopping around in my car like a wet fish, and potentially losing control, than to use a 3 year old 5 point racing harness that will pin me to the seat and let me control the car properly.


But, PCA seems to think there is a liability problem with using racing harnesses on stock seats, so I can work around that. I will get some racing seats, and only put them in for track events.

Clay,

Don't take this the wrong way, but I think you are missing the point. They consider 5-6 point harnesses and seats that have provisions for 5-6 point harnesses (holes for straps to fit through) to have been built to work together. Stock 914 seats are not designed for 5-6 point harnesses. What stock seats are designed for is the OEM 3 point belt as provided by the factory. They also don't want you to use 35 year old belts that are unsafe, they want you to use safe belts. If you want to use stock seat and you feel the stock belt is unsafe (due to age), then replace it with new webbing, etc.. I agree the old belt is probably not the best at this point.

Could you make a safe setup using a modified stock seat and 5-6 point harness? Probably yes. Do organizations like PCA and others want to examine each of those and make a judgement call on their safety? No they don't. They would rather pass the buck to OEM design (stock seat +stock belt) or assume that modern seats and harnesses are designed to work together well enough that if you follow installation instructions and GCR rules they are safe.

I understood your point Clay. I was down your path once before until I took the slippery slope of a full race interior. I just had a hard time finding race seats that would bolt up to the stock locations. The ones that did I didn't like. Good luck on your search.

Race`n seat stock belts ...I think i said that #5 look again

I LOVE my Kirkeys. Kirkey Deluxe intermediate road race seat for me and a regular Kirkey intermediate road race seat for the passenger, iirc. Mated with new 6pt belts I have never felt more secure and in place. Kirkey seats are a bit less money than, say, Sparcos or Recaros, are easily sized and have easy to remove covers if desired.

I had a custom install (didn't mate them to stock seat attachment points) and love the extra headroom.

Like many, I too was against the whole new rule. Then I got smart. Realized I'd rather live should something go wrong than not. 30+ year old DOT belts will, in all likelyhood, turn to dust if forced to contain me (200+lbs) say, at 40mph? 75mph? you name the speed but the impact is real.

Also, as mentioned, as an instructor, its is SOOO nice to be able to have a seat and belts that mirror what the driver thought was "safe enough". Seeing a driver in a full race set up and me left with a stock seat and belt? no thanks.

Stock 914 seats just aren't made to accomodate 5-6pt harnesses. Enough said. You wan't to use 30+ year old belts, be my guest.. may as well not wear a helmet too, or have fresh brake fluid and brake pads

Another way to look at it is, for most regions, it is a 1 time expense every 5-10 years (depending on belt build dates and types). You will spend MUCH more money on tires, suspension, gas and oil during that same time frame. You should be ashamed for NOT taking care of the most irreplaceble component - YOU!

What about something like this? Best of both worlds!

Click to view attachment

The 914 kind of falls between the cracks...

PCA doesnt want you to use 5 point harnesses with stock seats.. In stock seats I mean the seats through the 90's at some point....before they started making the seats with the hles for the shoulder belts etc...

I can remember instructing in cars where they had 5 point harnesses and the stock SC seats.... the design of the seat spread the shoulder belts away from your body... A few times I simply made the student pull into the pits when I didnt feel comfy in the car. If I am going to teach you.. you better provide some safety for me.

The 914 is an exception to the rule........ but PCA hasnt aknowledged that... the belts cant fall off your shoulder in a 914... where in a 911 without proper seats they can

Clay, I would be interested in hearing what you end up doing. I am currently shopping for seats for my car. I had origionally planned on using Kirkey aluminum seats (which are not FIA certified). However, I have had a number of people tell me to not go this route. Basically they don't like how you have to mount non-FIA seats (back brace). That the Kirkey is (or feels) flimsy and that some people have had back injurys from non-FIA seats folding up around the back brace in a rear impact. This is just what I have been told by people I trust.

My biggest problem is my size. I am a big guy. I am 6'5" and don't fit into standard seats due to my hip width. I was told to look into the Momo Start 2007. It is a very inexpensive FIA fiberglass seat. I tried out an older 2004 model and will not fit into it (seat is 15" wide at hip and I need 16"). I am now looking at the "Super Cup" which is the next model up in the Momo line. It comes in a standard and "XL" size. The XL should fit my hips. It will be interesting to see how well it fits in the car and if I will be able to keep my e-brake lever in the factory location. The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is that I would really like to sit in the seat before I buy it, but so far haven't been able to find someone local who has one. This doesn't even get into my height issues and clearance of the bar with my helmet on.

http://www.ltbmotorsports.com/ is supposedly a good place for Momo seats.

I like Kirkey seats as well, but I think, for autox, that I'm going to buy a the light weight Summit racing seat to use for my passenger. I saw one up close and no question they are very solid.

Richard,
I am probably not the guy to use for an example on seats. I am only 5'6" tall (Taller than Slits no matter what cheating measurement they used). I drive a 914 with the seat all the way forward, and I have no problem with helmet clearance.

I sat in a Spec Miata Seat last night. I liked it, and it fits well in a 914, including using the factory seat tracks.

I will keep everyone posted as to what I do with this.

Is that the plastic dune buggy seat your talking about?
I imagine if it has been in the Summit catalog for as long as it has it shouldn't be crap....

Yes, the Kirkeys are not FIA rated. True. For PCA Club Race that would mean you would need a back brace. On the other hand, of you are 6" or taller, I imagine there isn't enough room to fir a back brace due to closeness to the engine compartment wall. PCA, for the 914s I've seen, allow simple "padding" between seat and firewall to compensate.

Also, there are several styles of Kirkey seats. I run the Deluxe intermediate which has additional gusseting/strength compared to the regular intermediate seats.

I guess you could say I am a fan.

Whatever you choose, the important thing is to be aware of what is available. Check around the paddocks and see what others are using.. Ultrashield, Kirkey, Sparco, OMP, Recaro, etc...

As for stock porsche seats the 914s, and 911's from '74 till present all have NO allowance for the proper use of shoulder belts and/or sub belts, with the GT3 seat (and brand new GT2 Sport seat) being the exceptions.

I am sure the Kirkeys with back brace can be made safe. But I started to realize that while Kirkeys are inexpensive, that if I add in the cost of the back brace, I may have just erased my cost savings over an FIA seat. Just to be clear I am not knocking the Kirkey/Ultrashield aluminum seats. I came "this" close to buying one myself.

What I am doing is rolling the dice and ordering a Momo Super Cup XL FIA seat tomorrow. I can't find one local to sit in. I "think" I will fit and that it will fit the car, but there is only one way to find out. Worse case, I have to deal with restock fee and cost of shipping back.

I'd be interested in hearing your follow-up on your new seat. I too am an "XL" guy and need a seat that will fit me comfortably but not be a nightmare to get in or out of. Please let us know how you fared. TIA Stew

In my opinion, there isn't a "race seat" that will "bolt in" and use your stock sliders and allow any head room at all.

The stock seats are contoured to make more headroom available because the seat bottom is sunken between the slider rails. "Race Seats" are not contoured this way.

I have seen some people go to great lengths to lower race seats so they fit into a 914 (can you say extensive metal fabrication?)

At some point, I will be modifying the track car to give it some much needed head room. I think lowering the seat rail mount points by about 1"-1.5" would work nicely.

I hate the new rule, but it's one that probably won't just go away.

I really prefer our custom "race seats" that we made over any of the purchased ones. For one thing, our seats were stronger than the real "race seats" and they actually fit the car because they were based on stock 914 seat shells. Our seat shells were cut up and modified and provided all the required belt routing holes.

The only problem that I saw with our home brewed seats was that if an anal tech inspector wanted to, they could have sent us home instead of letting us run. As it has turned out, nobody has even looked twice at our seats or new 5-point harnesses.

I'm just about ready to take the passenger seat out. I hate giving my students rides anyway. I'm not sure that they are really ready for the "E" ticket ride....

I use Konig seats in both 914's. They are comfortable, fit me and my 6' 210 lb frame just fine, and I still have sliders. they are a bit of a pain since they do not mount to the stock mounts and the sliders that Konig sells are not great, but Bob and Laurette at Stable Energies up in NJ can give you ideas of how to mount them. Kind of a pain, but once they're in, they're great.

Pictures: