So, I am thinking of the future, and in the future lies the winter, in the winter is most likely when my bus will be ready to drive, the bus has no heat and that sucks out loud. Thus, I have been entertaining different ways to heat the inside so I dont die. Options included the eberspacher gasoline heater, the propex propane heater, and many layers of long underwear.

Eberspacher:
- Burns 1pt/hr of gas = about $1/hour and sucks gas from your tank this decreasing range.
- $500 for a full set up rebuilt

Propex:
- takes air from the out side and exhausts to the out side so no moisture buildup issues in the cabin
- Propane is cheaper than gas and it doesnt decrease your range
- $600 for the unit

Long underwear:
- Not good at defrosting the windshield.


Based on the above facts, I have decided to go with the Propex unit. Now, the real question I have is, where to store the fuel? I have an under the floor VW westy propane tank that I am considering using, but I am concerned about; a) any hassles filling it, b ) does it preclude me from driving over bridges and through tunnels An easier and more cost effective alternative I am considering is to use a BBQ propane tank such as used on the gas grills (the bigger ones). These are about $15 to fill and I have room to mount it in the bus. They are also universally available at many different retailers.

So, any reason I should not use a gas grill tank mounted inside the cab?

Diddn't camper buses have propane for the small stove anyhow?

Zach

Yes, that is what the VW camper tank mentioned above is for. But, I would need somebody to fill it while it is attached to the bus and that can be a bitch due to regulations. With the BBQ tank, I can remove it and swap it for a rebuilt and refilled unit for $15-20.

Eberspacher.

Why? Because it was designed for the purpose you wish. Also, it requires no special "filling" techniques. And, it works! Let's see, a pint an hour. And just how long are you going to be in traffic?

Stay with a proven item. Or......you could buy a conventional car - you know, one with heat AND a/c! You'll eventually cave.
Pat

A few years ago they changed the nozzles to fill propane. Ran up against this with

my old RV. I would not want the propane...In Side...With us.. I got

this, Fire...Burn, thing. I would have the outside tank inspected and if good have

the new nozzle(if it doesn't have it) put on, new lines and run it. .02

I don't know of this personally, but if you still have heater boxes, perhaps this is worth looking into.

http://www.jcwhitney.com/HEATER-AND-DEFOGG...02304_10101.jcw

I have a friend who used to own a vw shop that has a few Eberspacher NOS units...

He want's to get rid of them, if anyone is interested, let me know.

Ferg

The term "ineffective crap" wouldn't even BEGIN to describe this unit. The Cap'n

I stand corrected, but it has got to beat the long johns. Perhaps a blower motor of another type. I know that some leaf blowers are coming out in battery operated form. Perhaps you could fab something so that you could have heat and also the rushing of the wind in your face, a faux convertible

with Pat... Eberspacher... why reinvent the wheel

The only way to fly!!!

Had one in my '74 Bus = Takes the chill out of the bus quick but takes a while to get the whole thing warm ...

Had one in my '74 Super Beetle = 30 Minutes and you're in a Sauna at -10 outside temps ...

Andy

Ferg, If he is giving them away or charging next to nothing, I am interested

Why reinvent the wheel? C'mon, are you seriously asking ME that? Because

In my younger days I had a nice 70 VW bus, with semi-decent heat. The PO was a VW mechanic. He hooked up a switch controlled dual outlet aux fan (like early 914's) to the heater boxes via a Y connection on each side and flaps that closed off the engine fan air while the blower was on. Kept me resonably warm in KY winters and even defrosted the windshield.

Some 'not so nice' earlier busses had either propane catalytic heaters or a single open burner with the tank inside. WTF was I thinking?!?!?!?

I did have a 66 Bug with a US built gas heater (Southwind?) that would cook you out of a very rusty / 'ventilated' car in mere seconds.

Ferg, I am looking for some eberspacher stuff for my bus too. Parts or a full setup is fine with me.

You should be able to refill the stock VW tank by sourcing an adapter hose that will connect the VW tank to a BBQ tank. Hook them together, open the valves, let the pressure equalize (assuming the pressures are rated safely), shut the valves, DONE! That'd be the avenue I'd be going down.

speaking of re inventing the wheel... has anybody ever used an aux oil cooler as a heat source? would this work even?

Don't forget you are supposed to be transferring liquid, so the filling (from) tank must be inverted. You must vent gas from the filled tank also, so at best you won't get much of a fill this way. Considering all the propane powered vehicles and campers on the roads I don't think that there would be legal issues for using tunnels and so on.
I had two gas heaters in my old VW411, one over the tranny and one in the front trunk. Toasty!

Doc,
The propane unit mounted is pretty simple to fill.
Find all the local RV stores...there are quite a few in PA.
They fill them right there.
Any local oil/gas company also has the equipment to fill RV tanks. The same guys that delier oil/gas have the same unit at the office to fill the trucks that you need to fill the RV tank.
Yes, its specialized, but its pretty easy to find....I owned an RV...its a learning curve, but a simple one....
Think of it like finding all the Diesel stations...same thing...there is a place within 15 miles of you all over the country...just gotta look.
There are RV books that list them all.

The tank will last quite a while.
Keep tank outside the vehicle.
Be prepared to either buy a new tank, or new fittings for the old tank.
Propane tanks have a gien life span and CANNOT be filled legally after the tag expires...RV stores sell tanks also.

That being said, I had the gas heater in one of my buses. I would never own a bus without one again...its a life saver.
Yes it uses fuel, but its mindless...just fill the tank.
The bus is not exactly a high mileage super efficient vehicle anyways...if you get 20mpg be happy.

I would go for the gas heater.
Look up "heaterman" on TheSamba...he is in NJ and restores them.
He has all the parts, and good prices.

Also, look up William Harris on the Club board...he bought one for a 914 but I am not sure if he ever plans to use it...

Rich

Evil,
Among all the other pros and cons you are debating between the two systems I will add my 2 cents for the fire safety aspect. (Image that ) Gasoline tanks tend to burn and not burst like propane tanks (BLEVE). God forbid another incident like you already had but, I would not want to have to think about an additional fuel source to hinder my chances in an accident or car fire.
I have been around 5 gallon propane tanks when they go up (fires that reach the BBQ on the patio) and they make you stain your shorts to say the least. You probably have seen some scrapnel injuries in the ER in your shifts there.
Anywho, my advice is to keep it simple
Build another kick ass car and have fun!

Yes, I use the engine oil to heat my 904 kit car after the engine warms up.

The digram shows how I did it.

Click to view attachment

Evil this is a pic of my Cousin's truck, at Able fuel (eastern thing). It was a

propane explosion their at the yard.

Enough said.

I have to agree with the group that the gas heaters are so much easier and work great. I had a 73 thing in HS that had a gas heater. The car had side curtains and a top that leaked and the gas heater would make it warm as you wanted. Go with the gas heater then you never have to worry about filling up the tank. I know that when I get nice steaks it is inevitable that half way thru the cooking the gas will run out. Hershey gets dam cold in the winter and it will suck if you run out of propane and have to find a place in the winter to fill up. I bet you can even find a stove (for outdoor use) that runs off unleaded. I know the coleman fuel for camp stoves is basically unleaded. On the flip side you can get a stove and a fridge that runs off propane at most RV stores.

Grrrr, I was decided on propane, but you guys are making me rethink. I am reconsidering the gas heater.

Considerations, though. I dont have air boxes at all from the exhaust, and I will have to plumb the gas heater as well. I am looking into it. I can put the heater on a remote and start it before I get into the bus in the AM

Uhmm, dude ... All the Eberspacher needs is a gas supply line and a exhaust hole in the floorpan. It comes with it's own exhaust and fresh air inlet, both go to the outside. No plumbing of the exhaust or airintake needed ...

It also comes with a Thermostat dial that has a clock build in so you can set it to a certain time to start up. Set it for half an hour before you have to leave and the car will be all warm and cozy ...

You can't get it any better than that!
Andy

Thats great!
Where did you integrate with the existing system? Up at the air box? Back at the flappers?

I didnt know about the timer thing, thats cool. I mentioned the lack of airboxes to clarify some of the suggestions made earlier.

The OE mounting place for the heater is on the drivers side in the engine compartment. This kinda sucks as it is far from the action up front making it a little less efficient. I am sure there are ways around that. Besides, it only gets to about the teens here in the winter.

A couple of things on heating a bus/van.

First, there is/was a long pipe, uninsulated that goes from the heater boxes to the front of the bus for heat.
Its really simple enough to put that back in place.
I would suggest that you look at commercial grade insulation (used in steam plants) to wrap the pipe...stock had no insulation so you can imaging the loss of temp after the 8 feet of travel....pretty bad.

Second, and this is from years of owning buses and vans.
You really need to heat up the rear of the bus or put up a barrier behind the front seats in the winter. If you dont heat up the rear, all the hot air just rushes past you into the rear of the bus...

So, to do it right, design a duct/pipe that feeds out into the rear at the floor level first, then goes up front.
You also have loads of space under the floor to move the heater up to just behind the passenger seat under the bus...there is alot of room there.

Currently I have a Eurovan and like my previous vanagon the rear heater duct comes out behind the passenger seat and aims towards the rear of the vehicle.
If I dont turn the rear heat on, the front stays cold.
If I do turn the rear heat on, I am sweating.

I loved the gas heater in my vanagon and buses...its really is perfectly sized and awesome when you use the timer...
If you get a light snow, the heater can and will melt the snow within the early morning so you dont even have to brush off the van...

Considering this is your DD for the winter...do think about adding insulation to the entire interior, especially the roof.
If you do a really good job of insulating, it will only need a little bit of heat...not as much as it needed for the first part of its uninsulated life.

Look at Rock Wool in the 1/2 inch thick variety...its easy to cut, it sticks with 3M adhesive, and its also a good sound deadener.

If I recall, there is no insulation on the roof, and the vertical panel in front of the engine (the firewall) and very little on the outer walls...
Do a good job insulating and use the gas heater...it will blow you away.

I did this on one bus, I will do it again on my next one...even if I drive very little in the snow.
The Eurovan is the new winter van here.
Honestly the rear engined bus is alot better in the snow, but the Eurovan can tow...
Rich

Thanks for all the input and experience. I will go with the gasoline heat as if I do not like it, which I am doubting, I can always remove it and sell it and try something else. I will have the perfect time to insulate as the bus is gutted

If Ferg's friend falls through, this is the guy that I am going with:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=48885

He is very knowledgeable and has the whole setup rebuilt.

If you end up going back to the propane solution, I would really avoid the potential missle of a propane tank in the car that can go flying in the event of a collision. The VW camper tanks under the car work quite well. We have a Eurovan Camper with such a tank and we've never had problems getting it filled. We've also never had any restrictions on driving the vehicle over bridges or through a tunnel.

I have a gas heater i was going to sell during the fall if you are interested in it. I had it hooked up in my 914 for about 4 years and it worked perfect it produces so much heat that when i took it out of my car last fall i but it on my 8x10 shed and used it to heat that during the winter as i rebuilt my 914engine. it took the shed from 0 to 70degrees in about 30 minutes and if i used 1 gallon of gas all last winter that was alot i did not refil the 2 gallon container once. I took it out of the car b/c i am going with a Tangerine exhaust and he makes a heater box for his system and that will give me back my trunck space in the 914 again. I had it set with a thermaostat that would shut it off and on when i used it. The units are like anything else they are safe as long as you maintain them. They have fail safes built into them and you would have to be a fool to override them like people did in the past and that is why they are illegal in the US you can only buy a new desiel unit not a gas unit in the US. I was lucky enough to purchase a desiel unit a relitive new one and was going to put that in the car but it did not pump out much heat at all compared to the gas unit. i have pictures of the gas unit in the car if you are interested. In the 914 i had the unit turned down to almost nothing and that is done by controlling the amount of gas that is pushed into the unit. in the shed i turned it up to about 75%. I messed around with a bunch of them before building 1 perfect one to put in the car so if i can help in any way i would be glad to.

Matt

Wow, Matt, thanks for the input and offer. I am interested in your heater and will contact ya. Definitely post pics as people are interested in this installed in a 914 as well.