1973 1.7.

I think I want to keep a 4.. because of weight, etc, and honestly everyone is doing sixes, so thinking about building or buying a bad ass 4....

Whos running high HP 2.0 to 2.2? What carb and or exhaust set up are you running. What are the potential differences in a 2.0 and 2.2 (baring size)

What am I going to run into droping in a "new" 4, (what else will I need to change?) Any threads on upgrading a 4? I see tons on upgrading to a 6.

And who's crating and selling them? (if anyone)
Any help is greatly appreciated.


Dave


Click to view attachment

Here for turn key 4's

here for good info

more type 4 talk

another turnkey spot

1st of all replace that center carb with the long runners. That will make a big difference.

If you want a high HP 4 with reliablity, just get a Raby. And he's not that far from you.

T.C.

another place to shop

and yet 1 more place to shop

the only shop that i can comment on is Jake's

all thumbs up here

do a search their are more shops, and check on recommendations/ripoffs

Thank you very much George!

Dave, what sort of power are you after?

Just a plug here (and I hope no one objects, because it's actually relevant to the discussion): My recently-rebuilt 2.0 L-jet fuel injected motor is for sale through Camp914 (camp914.com; Craig is a member here). I recently had a chance to pick up a 3.2, so that's why the motor is for sale. As funny as it sounds, it was actually a tough choice for me, because, like you, I appreciate the lighter weight = more nimbleness of a 4. Quite noticeable difference between the two when driven back-to-back. That, and I know my motor is completely proven/100% reliable.

Anyhow, the idea behind my rebuild was to have a solid platform to get decent power w/o over boring and sacrificing fuel economy and longevity...AND staying within a reasonable budget. With the L-jet, the motor dynoed at ~115hp at the crank. That was before going with a Triad exhaust, which I'm sure added power (quite noticeable by-the-seat power & torque gain). The plan was to next jump to an aftermarket fuel injection system, something like from CB Performance, coupled with MSD ignition, which, from what I've gathered, makes for a SIGNIFICANT gain. Next, I was going to go with a lightened flywheel. And (keeping budget in mind) end with (maybe) a cooling system upgrade, something like the 911 fan or DTM, both of which draws less power from the crank, I believe (I've been told the 911 setup robs only 10 horse vs 20 or so for stock system - no first hand experience to confirm). There's gain to be had from more efficient cooling, too. All said and done, the motor should end up making 140, if not more, horsepower. In a car with a curb weight of 2100lbs, that's A LOT of fun! /End plug

For ultimate Type IV performance, as others have suggested, I think the consensus is Raby. I've always wanted one!

Good luck, whichever choice you make.

Cheers,
-duc

What's your budget?

Stage I - dump the progressive Weber and get either D-Jet or a pair of 40 IDFs.
Stage II - build your 1.7 into a 1911 with a set of 96mm pistons/cylinders.
Stage III - Find a 2.0 and refresh it, or build it into a 2056
Stage IV - Build a 2270 with aftermarket FI or a pair of 44 IDFs.
Stage V - Trade $$ for HP direct from Jake.

I'm on the slow train direct to Stage IV... building a 2058 as I can acquire parts. Mine will be a 2058 because the crank that I got is a 78mm rather than the more common 78.4 mm stroker.

Good decision to stay with the 4. I have a friend who has been dealing with fat performance for a with his lola (it runs a type IV) and they have given great service. I have seen nothing but good things posted about Jake. When I am ready to start buying engine parts I will probably deal with Jake since he contributes a lot of tech info on this site.

BTW I think the 2270 is the way to go for great perfomance and reliability.

2056s can be TONS of fun. They are NOTHING like a stock motor. A 2270 is definitely a step up, but don't think that if you decide to go with a 2056 that you're settling for a sub-par motor. I've often wondered if I'll ever decide to build myself a 2270 since I'm having so much with with my 2056.

how much do you want to spend? how much of the build do you want to do? do you want to stay air cooled, somewhat stock or will you entertain a completely different engine?

i went from a 1.7 to a 2056 (popular upgrade). i am happy with the outcome, but i have to say to do it right, a TYPE IV can be trickier and more expensive (dollar for dollar for the same h.p. and reliability of many modern engine swaps). there are many guys that have been around these motors and have only $2500 into a fresh 2056. but unless you know where and what to look for, -and- source good used parts you can easily have $5000+ into a good build. if you buy a "turn key", be aware of the misc. parts that they may not have, like "recomended" exhaust, ignition and carbs or aftermarket f.i. that they may require. these items can easily add thousands to the cost.

in hindsight i learned ALOT in the build and it was an overall good/fun experiance. if i had to do over again i would look for a quality used motor from a know source here on the world (they're around) or i'd even think seriously about fitting a low mile f.i. 4.3 vortex v6 (my personal choice if i would do this). there are a ton of guys here with all sorts of combo.'s. but really, unless you want originality there is alot of advantages to moderern tech.

bottom line
do what you want, just be ready for which ever direction you're going. that way you'll enjoy the 914 vrs. siting on jack stands

mike

Wow, Thanks for all the responses.

Im a bit of a "purist" , but not to the point where I wont upgrade. I dont want to do the V8 or subi thing.

Well, Budget is not really a huge issue, BUT... Im not crazy either.

Im looking for something that I wont be disapointed with on the track, but at the same time, I dont feel like tearing it down every 2 weeks either.

I have alot of help from friends, but i dont want to be a pain in the ass either, so something already built is the ticket for me, Im not at the level to build an engine. General maint is no issue for me though. I can do brakes, suspension, etc...

Based on this... Talk to McMark about a $5K 2056, or take a look at the engine at CAMP914.

96mm pistons/cylinders - 1.8L P/Cs?

The reason I ask, is I had someone mention they thought the 1.8 P/Cs on a 1.7 block took the motor out to a 1911. I had assumed I only had a 1.8.

Common Type IV engine sizes:

Stock
90mm x 66mm = 1679 (1.7)
93mm x 66mm = 1793 (1.8)
94mm x 71mm = 1971 (2.0)

Not stock
96mm x 66mm = 1911
96mm x 71mm = 2056
96mm x 78.4mm = 2270
96mm x 80mm = 2316

Sweet. Thanks.

Just to make you think it over a bit.

3.12 IMSA spec turbo

I may have just what your looking for
Linky

I have a Raby kit 2270 motor in my car... The drawback is that you are locked into changing exhaust and induction. The 2056 can use stock induction and exhaust though you are leaving a little on the table if you do. Mark provides a GREAT service with his 5k motor. A 2056 is a very lively motor in a stockish car. No bad manners and you can appear as stock as you want... Some people like that. Now having pointed out the drawbacks of the 2270 I should point out that there is not much more fun to be had in a 4 cylinder TypeiV without losing road manners. At that point, it isn't fun anymore...

hum...ok now you got me thinking... so with my 1.7 case... what would i need to make that a 2.2 or go for it to a 2.4? heads and pistons? Am i safe to assume my 35 year old heads should not be used, but buy new..

after reading though I belive I can tear it down and build one myself, with a little help. So I guess that expands the canvas...

Depending on the specific size that you want, you'll need pistons/cylinders, a stroked crank, clearanced rods, and other supporting parts... you don't want to put a stock camshaft into a big engine.

You can use your case, but you'll either need machine work on the heads or a set of 1.8 or 2.0 heads to get a 2.2-2.4. If you are going to go big, you'll be spending money, so you'd be best off having the head rebuilt, or just buy a good new set from Jake. Most builders agree that you don't want to go bigger than 96mm bore with iron cylinders.

I can't afford a Raby kit right now, so I'm collecting parts as I find them to build a 2258. I'm hoping to save a couple thousand $$$, but I also don't expect to get the results that Jake can produce, and I won't have Jake standing behind the engine. If you have time, are willing to keep your eyes open, and willing to take the risk and responsibility, you might be able to do what I am attempting. Otherwise, talk to Jake about a kit.

Here's what I've got so far:

78mm crank - $100.00
WebCam #163 with timing gear - $76.01
dual valve springs - $22.75
new pushrod tubes - $22.00
complete 2.0 core engine $300.00
complete 2.0 core engine with Weber 44 IDFs $400.00
set of 1.7 rockers $40.00

I also have a set of clearanced rods that I won't be using... I don't see how they will work with a 78mm stroke and a 24mm piston pin. My crank has stock 2.0 rod journals, which is not ideal for a stroked Type IV, but it "saved" me over $400.

I'm looking into the possibility of having the journals ground to fit another rod, but I doubt that it is feasible... the 2.0 journal is smaller than most other rod journals.

I am taking the risk myself. I may fail, but I don't think that I will. I'll have fun though.

the 1.7 is acual a better/tougher case. the meteral thickness under the register is actuallly thicker. the 2.0 cases are starting to show up more frequently with sunken registers (where the webbing is thinner on 2.o vrs 1.7)

ga case inner
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ea 1.7 case inner
Click to view attachment

That's two pics of the same case

oh crap, your right... my bad. good eye! i'll look for the pic's. i'm not crazed though even though i wonder at times. i've had the 2 open cases (ga/ea) side by side to confirm this after reading about it on aircooled tech.

i'll look for the right pic's

mike