I am trying to get my 1970 running. Everything in the car is from my 1976 so it is really a 1976. I finally have everything hooked up and when I turn the key to accessories there is no power to the fuel pump. When I try to turn the engine over nothing happens. Is there anybody local (columbus,ohio) that would be willing to help?? I am not a wiring person so could use all the help I can get. I am willing to pay, either in cash or in beer and food (BBQ). Please Help!

Flowcharts for diagnosing "no power to pump" issues:

http://members.rennlist.com/pbanders/FPChecklist.htm

Or text for diagnosing it:

http://web.archive.org/web/20021222030448/...t/fuelpump.html

...Note that these are specific to the D-jetronic fuel injection system from the stock 1.7 and 2.0 cars. The 1.8 pump control system works differently, and carb conversions can run the pump however the person who wired things up felt like setting it up.

--DD

I guess more information would be good. It does have a PO carb conversion, and when I pulled everything from the old car I forgot to mark all of the wires (dumb move) and now I don't know where everything goes. I have read some other postings here tonight and will be doing some more troubleshooting tomorrow. I am also having trouble with the ignition (no cranking). It has a unilite electronic ignition system installed, so I need to trace all the wires and see what is wrong. There are 2 relays that the PO added (need to figure out what they are for)Click to view attachment If I can't figure everything out tomorrow I will make a diagram of all of the wiring and post it. If there is any advice before I start tomorrow just let me know. I am still open to locals coming to help.

Not that I'm disputing Dave Darling's info (it really is great stuff) but I have a few questions...

If you're turning the key and the engine isn't turning over, what makes you sure that there's no power getting to the pump? Does the engine try to turn over, but doesn't? Do you hear a click when you turn the key? Or is it just silence?

Also, after a reread of your original post, I would hope that there wouldn't be any power getting to the pump in the accessory position on the tumbler- that could be a serious wiring issue- it would most definitely need to be in the "on" position. (Hehe... I'm sure that's what you meant, just had to tease you about it. )

But seriously, as far as power to the pump goes, if you didn't mark the wires when you made the switchover, it's most likely that you've crossed the wires somewhere. The simplest solution is to trace the wire from the pump back to the relay board, find where it's hooked now, and if incorrect, use a diagram to determine where it's correct position should be (can't remember which one's the FP relay at the moment.)

As for the two added relays- no clue what they could be.

1st step may be to install your voltage regulator (missing). Just a thought.

Steve

So I figured out a few things. I figured out everything with the 2 relays, and I think one of them is bad, since there is no power getting through it, probably due to something I did. I am obviously new to this whole 914 thing and I hooked up the 14 pin plug on the relay board backwards (see picture above) What potential damage did I cause by doing this? Also, I traced the power wire for the fuel pump back to this connector, Click to view attachment and I have no idea where it goes, I don't remember this when I unhooked everything. Also, when I go to turn the engine over I only get a click, I am thinking maybe the battery is completely dead, I will take it to get tested today. One more thing, When I first got the car and it was running, the fuel pump would kick on when the key turned to the 'on' position, just before cranking over.

I notice that you have one wire to the connector on the relay board closest to the rear driver's side tire. Is this L-Jet? If so, that wire needs to be in position II or IV (terminals closest to rear of car).

And your alternator harness isn't hooked up to the relay board.

The car has a PO carb conversion. The alternator is hooked up now, that picture was taken before I hooked it up.

I couldn't tell you with 100% certainty, but I don't think you would have damaged anything by hooking up the 14 pins backwards- just had the wrong power going to the wrong places.

The fuel pump *should* kick on if the key is in the "on" position before you turn it over.

And what did you discover with the relays as far as what they're for?

We need as much info as you can provide us with to help you diagnose this problem. Especially if everything's been switched from one teener to another.

Oh, and don't worry about being new to all this- we were all there at one point or another.

I got my battery tested and it was bad so I bought a new one, still no fix. Both relays are triggered off of the ignition, with one going to the unilite distributor and the other going to the starter. I can fix the fuel pump issue by re-wiring it to a switched 12V, but I am not sure about the starter issue. I am getting power out of the relay board while cranking, so it is not the ignition switch. I am about to read starter system troubleshooting, but any other advice will be appreciated.

More news, I think my ignition switch is bad. I have 12.5 volts going into it but only 10.6 coming out when trying to start.

Forgot I had a spare ignition switch, tried it and the starter works now. But of course, the problems are not gone. Now, With the car jacked up and one wheel blocked, I put the tranny in 5th and try to turn the engine, and it wont turn. I can get about a half of a turn in either direction with the wheel, then a solid stop of the engine. Thought maybe hydrolock, removed plugs, same problem. It is almost like there is something in the engine stopping it solid. The engine ran fine about 8 months ago before the swap, and the PO told me he just rebuilt it about 1500 miles ago. What could cause the engine to do this?? Please Help!!

Get used to it- from what I understand the problems never go away with these cars, haha.

But what do you mean "with the car jacked up and one wheel blocked"?? Are you saying you've got the rear wheels off the ground? Some pics of this set up could be useful. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the tranny differential is designed in such a way that it won't turn manually if it's in gear but the engine isn't running, so you might be reading too far into it.

Also, has the engine been run on a regular basis since the rebuild? If not there's always the possibility that something's froze up internally or even that something came loose after the rebuild and locked it up.

Keep the information coming- anything that was done to the motor that you can find out about- the more we know, the better we can help you.

I have the back wheels off of the ground but one wheel is blocked and the tranny is in 5th in order to turn the engine (as stated in The Cap'n's valve adjustment procedure in the classic threads) The engine was ran pretty regular for about 1000-1500 miles, but has sat for about 8 months since, and now it won't turn. It is a very solid stop that it hits. I am afraid the engine probably has to come back out and torn open, but I have never opened one of these engines. Is there anything else it could be?

Is there anyone local that has an engine stand I could borrow? Anybody local interested in helping a newbie?

Well in terms of sitting time, 8 months is relatively short... but I don't know that it's short enough to prevent seizing.

The only thing I can think of off the top of my head that would cause an engine to just stop would be that a valve is opening at the same time that a piston is at TDC. Have you tried forcing the engine over, or are you just hitting that stop lightly and giving up there?

You might go back and double check to make sure you adjusted the valves right. Or you could try getting a friend to help you push start it. Even if it doesn't fire, it might clue you in as to what's preventing it from turning over. You might hear a sound that you didn't hear before or something.

You said that the starter works now? To me, that means that the starter spins the motor over. If that is the case, then the motor is not seized or stopped in any way.

If one rear wheel is free to move, and the other rear wheel is stopped from rotating, you should be able to put the transmission into a gear and turn the motor over that way. It is possible that you have selected two gears at once instead of one; in that case the transmission itself will not turn.

Once you pull out the spark plugs, if the transmission is in neutral, can you turn the engine over by grabbing the fan and turning it? Or with the starter plugs in or plugs out?


The wiring hassles you are going through right now are one of the problems with carb conversions. There isn't any one "right" way, so you have to figure out what the person who did the work before you did, and then fix that...

--DD

The starter does work but it just makes the motor hit the 'stop', it won't spin past that. When in gear I only get about half a turn of the unblocked wheel until it stops. I can then turn the wheel backwards and then forwards again and I hit the same stop. I will try it in neutral this morning. Is it common for it to select two gears by accident, if the shifter is not adjusted properly?

Put the car in neutral, still won't get past the stop. Also, I don't think I can force it past the stop. I tried fairly hard and it won't budge. To clear up how solid the stop is, imagine if you put a solid chunk of steel on top of the piston as it is coming to TDC, then hits it solid, That is almost what it feels like. I can't imagine what is actually causing the problem though.

Well, that doesn't sound good...

Check the fan to see if there is anything stuck in there. If not, then you may have to pull the carbs off and maybe the exhaust to see if there is anything in the ports that is hanging up a valve or some such.

After that... You may wind up dropping the motor and pulling the heads off.

I sure hope I'm wrong about that, but...

--DD

If the tranny is in neutral, and you still can't get it past whatever's jamming it up, here's what you need to do:

Drop the tranny. Then, with the tranny out, see if you can turn the motor over, and make sure the plugs are out for ease of turning. If the motor turns over without the tranny, then it's a tranny problem; if it doesn't, then it's the motor.

That's the easiest and relatively quickest way I can think of to determine which is the problem. If you need help dropping the tranny, don't be afraid to ask- especially when it comes to the CV axles- those things can be tricky.

Since it only takes about 1-2 hours I just went ahead and pulled the engine, its easier to work on that way. I am going to start pulling it apart after lunch and I will give updates probably tomorrow. I won't have a computer after about 1:00pm today until tomorrow morning. Wish me luck, hopefully I don't have to do a full rebuild.

*shrugs* Well at least you made it easier on yourself, since there probably woulda been a reason for you to drop it anyway.

Good luck.

Well, I have determined the problem. The number 1 cylinder intake valve seat has dropped and was holding the valve open. Not sure how it happened since it was running fine 8 months ago before I transfered the engine to the new car. I have no pictures yet but will put some up tonight probably. The engine never actually ran like this, just a couple of hits against it with the starter. My question now is, should I completely tear the engine down to check that everything else is still good, not from the dropped seat but from possibly a poor PO build? Or for the sake of getting the car running, replace the seat, valve, and piston, and forget about it until I can spend the money on a rebuild (maybe this winter)?