I want to get a set of header and a exhaust for my 1.7L and I'm wondering what my best options would happen to be? anybody got something good?

I _HIGHLY_ recommend you talk to Dave @ Triad ( http://www.triadwestperformance.com/ ). His systems are well built (will last!), affordable, look good, sound amazing...and backs it all up with noticeable performance gain. Dave's a really nice guy, to boot!

Good luck.

-duc

I installed a set of Triad headers this summer. They went on nicely and the performance is excellent.

Duc, do you have Dave's headers?

Steve

He has B&Bs with heat boxes on them. Dave's hearers have no heat.

I have Triad on mine and love it but heat would be nice..... ahhhh, who needs heat on a race car

I haven't given up on the heat issue. It would be really cool to design a safe ceramic heater that can be mounted in line between the blower fan in the engine bay and the lower heat duct connections on the engine firewall.

I currently have tennis balls stuffed in the heat duct connections on the engine firewall and I have the blower fan disconnected.

Steve

Google thermo electric heaters . They are used in Subs and boats...
Low wattage needs.

Rich

Hi Steve. My car is being converted to a 6, with B&B SS heat exchangers. When I get it back next week, I'll be putting on a Triad exhaust.

Before the swap, with my 2.0L, I was running Dave's performance muffler with 2.0 SSI heat exchangers. Power and torque gain was noticeable compared to the (new) Bursch I had before. There are 3 add'l bonuses w/ the Triad:

1) You get better fuel economy (from better flow, I assume - the exhaust experts here will correct me if I'm wrong). I was seeing 40-50 add'l miles per tank. That's just from changing the exhaust.

2) You get a really sweet exhaust note. It's throaty and purposeful. A lot of people say it sounds like a 911. Compared to my stock '73 911T, I would say it sounds more like a 911, but not necessarily like it exactly. That's not a bad thing, or good. Just my subjective evaluation of the note. It is definitely less VW Bus, rattly sounding than all other options I've tried in the past. IT SOUNDS GREAT! Without being obnoxious. Open it up on a back road, and it'll seduce you.

(Here's a quick clip I found on youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBf1cpu2A2k )

3) The exhaust wears really well. I was able to look at Dave's wife's car with a 12-yr-old (or is it 15?) Triad, and it looked incredible still. Compare that to something like a Bursch...which will start rusting and looking cruddy in a matter of months; my Bursch was an eyesore after 4 months.

I didn't run headers because I wanted heat. I understand some builders will build you heat boxes for their headers, but Dave @ Triad told me he didn't feel comfortable doing that, as a leak into the heat boxes could be disastrous. It may not be likely...but with steel...welded bends...it could happen.

I was able to look at the Triad headers up close, on a lift, and the workmanship is top-notch! Little details are looked after, like heat shields to protect nearby components and lines. Dave races, so his products benefit from real-world testing and improvement.

For those who may not know, Triad also makes systems for 6-cyl cars.

Sorry to sound like a total Triad fanboy. Just wanted to share my experience.

-duc

That's alright Duc, I too am a Triad poster boy I'm proud to say I am one of the people responsible for making him busy the past year or so and I will always continue to promote his stuff. He is just a really good guy and does great work for a very affordable price.

What are B&B's??
got any pics?

Rich

http://www.patrickmotorsports.com/part/723/

Hi Rich. B&B is Billy Boat:

http://www.bbexhaust.com/

There's a photo of the heat exchangers here (toward the middle of the page):

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...87701&st=40

And on the car (about a third way down page):

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...87701&st=80

-duc

Jon, so you're the one responsible for putting me down at 6th on the waitlist, eh?

Yeah, Dave is a great guy. Eric, too. Real craftsmanship and pride in his products. Great value. Personally, I think he should raise his prices. I like his products that much! I think he's way under-charging. I would pay more to support a good shop like Triad, for sure.

-duc

ummm... Sorry, but it will at least be worth the wait

Another recommendation for the Triad.

I replaced my two year old Bursch with Dave's product , I'm very happy with the Triad.

Are you looking for a complete exhaust, or just something to bolt onto the ends of your stock (or SS) heat exchangers?

For a complete exhaust, see Racer Chris, AKA Tangerine Racing. It's the best--and costs like it.

Triad is another option; they have muffler replacements and whole exhaust systems. There are other options as well.

--DD

Thanks Dave

Chris's Tangerine Racing Header is the best. It makes a bunch more power than any other exhaust setup (dyno proven), sounds really amazing, is truly a work of art, and Chris is a really nice guy. If I had the money my car would have one. He does sell a heat exchanger kit for it too.

His web page is tangerineracing.com

I'm just about ready to release the new Tangerine "ECO" System. It is for (mostly) stock engines up to 2 liters. 1 1/2" primaries, 2 stub pipes instead of 4, and a name brand "off the shelf" muffler. The prototype is on a 1911 in my street car right now. You get the all performance benefits but not all the high end features that make the Tangerine EVO so pricey. ($1345 vs. $1995)

Andrew, are you looking to get rid of you heat exchangers (and heat) for a header system, or just looking for a new muffler?

I thought the best performance combo (keeping stockish heat) was a set of SSI exchangers and a Bursch muffler. From my understanding, the Triad is quieter and much more livable, but you are giving up a little potential power.

Granted, the SSI/Bursch combo is like +3 hp, its *not* big. To make performance gains you pretty much have to go for a header system and loose the heat.

Zach

Zach, my experience with a 2.0 motor and 2.0 SSI heat exchangers and Bursch/Triad is the opposite. The Bursch is quieter. The Triad gives noticeable gain in power and torque. I also noticed improved fuel economy, to suggest that the Triad flows better, which goes with better performance. That's my experience, at least.

-duc

I hope you have better luck with the B&B's than I, and others have had. They have about a 50% problem rate. For as much as they are, be sure not to modify them in any way before you make sure they fit right.

(Sorry everyone - I don't mean to go off-topic. But I did want to follow up with Perry publicly, so others with B&B systems may benefit as well.)

Perry, I guess I'm one of the lucky ones. Dan has the B&Bs mounted and working great. But I am curious about the problems you mention. Are they anything serious? Build quality? Durability? Fitment? What sort of modifications are people making? My understanding is that these are simple bolt-on pieces. I'd appreciate any insight you may have, particularly if there's something I need to keep an eye on going forward. Thanks!

-duc

Andrew, Are you planning on keeping a stock 1.7 for long? If so, a high end exhaust probably isn't going to help you much. You are probalby better off getting a Brush that hooks up to the stock heater boxes.

What do you mean by that? A high quality header, properly tuned to increase midrange torque and top end power by about 10% is just the ticket to make a stock d-Jet 1.7 really perform well. It could be a satisfying powerplant in a very economical sports car, and eliminate (ok, reduce) the desire for further upgrades.
By comparison, a Bursch hooked up to ssi's or stock heater boxes has primaries that are substantially longer than the new RAT bus header, developed by me to produce low end torque for campers and haulers. The only help there is that its inexpensive (I mean cheap).

If you are willing to give up heat, which the OP suggested he is not, just about every option is a better option then stock or near stock units. Tangerine is the gold standard, to be sure.

Zach

Alright Zach thats what im going for I wanna get the most from my 1.7L the little engine that has could and will keep doing

andrew

If you don't mind loosing heat, you could go with a European Racing Header (~$800) or a Kerry Hunter (cheapest, now made by someone else and sold through AA). Or, clearly, spend the dosh and get one of Chris' units.

You will likely get the biggest gains through the Tangerine, but you will pay for it. The Kerry Hunter and Euro Race should give noticeable gains - not as much as the Tangerine, but at under 1/2 cost.

And, once you decide to build your 1.7 into a 1911, headers will really shine.

'Course, no heat on chilly mornings. Wear a sweater and a warm cap.

Zach

Hey thats MY car in the youtube vid. I love the sound of that triad. It sounds even better now because of better valve and carb adjustment.

That said, I bet Chris has got the goods.

Dave at Triad makes the Euro race header for $695. If you get the muffler as well I believe he gives you a generous price break.

Just wanted to add my two cents. Just did the motor & trans rebuild and went to SS Heat Exchangers and Triad Solo exhaust. Can't say enough good about Dave at Triad. Good Guy. Quality exhaust and sounds great. I no sooner got it bolted on, crawled out from under the car and he calls me to make sure I received it and everything fit and went well. Everything did fit and go well and that is what I call customer service. Thanks Dave...