Well talk about torn! I love what Jake has done with his type IV development. I have said for probably the last year that I would get a 2270 eventually. However, I was sitting here on the verge of the purchase when I looked at what the total cost was going to be. Please dont misread this as I have the utmost respect for the quality and performance of Jakes engines.

However, for a 180 hp 2270 I was staring at about 6300 (If I built it myself I think... ) . I found a 2.7 for 2750 that was rebuilt 16K miles ago. The 2.7 was a 74 carrera ROW engine factory rated at 175 hp. It will cost me 300 for tins, and 1K for an oil tank and 300 ish for the engine mount so that puts me in at 4350. So yes my car will weigh about 200 pounds more. However, I just was not ready to drop the extra 2k to stay a 4 when the 6 will probably be a better value add to my car than a well built 4.

Am I way off base? I know this comes across as 4 vs 6. However, it really is not. I think that given price as no object I would still go with the 4. I do know that there are many factors when building a car. The first thing I have learned is for the most part .... Yes you will sell it some day. So resale has to play a factor. ...

I think it's 180hp 4 $$$ vs 180hp 6 $$$. Headers will probably make up the other 5hp.

You bring up another good point headers and muffler will put me another 1K closer. However, now I can sell my 2.0 and my 2.0 heat exchangers and muffler... Net adjust 500 for the exhaust but sell my 2.0 for 500, heat exchangers for the 2.0 (early) 400, and sell the 2.0 muffler and it will be a wash for a 911 muffler.

so yet another 400 in favor of the 6 swap.

6 cylinders are just awesome, but an 8 is WILD. Is a non origional 6 going to be worth more than a well done V-8 that you can do for the same money or less? I know that not the question, sorry.
Bruce
the old V-8 guy

I actually think that a well done v8 will cost me more than a 2.7 porsche 6 conversion. My 72 will be getting that treatment so I am not going against that line of thinking. My 70 is now destined to a 2.7 6. However, if going with an 8 I would want to go ls* alumimum v8 but that conversin chimes in around 400 ish hp. I would not pair up a 901 with 400 hp regardless of what anyone would say.

Similarly I would not put a ls6 with a 915 either. I would only do it with a 930 4 speed which is a ton of $ (10K ish when adding in the cable shifter)

Resale v8 vs 6 both well done is highly debatable. Few well done v8's come up for sale. However when they do they command top $. However a v8 done right with a 930 trans vs a 3.6 or 3.8 with a 915 .... I would say $ invested vs $ returned would probably prove the porsche 6 a better investment still.

When I build my 72 it will be all bets off and who cares what it will sell for .... However, that will be when my company goes public and the $ spent will hurt less (IE way in the future). Before I die I have to feel what 400 ish hp feels like in a 2K pound car. My 911 with 300ish hp in a 2370 pound car is good enough for now... and the 914 @ 2kish pounds with almost 200 hp will be tons of fun due to the improved handling over the 911.

I'd just like to bring up the longevity aspect of 4 vs. 6. The sixes are good for well over 100k (usually over 200K). I just don't believe that a hopped up four banger is going to have that sort of lifespan. Am I off base?

Whichever way you go, don't forget to upgrade the brakes.

You're not off base. I have a friend who ran a 2.7 RSish motor in his 911 racecar 6-8 events a year for 8 years plus some street driving without opening up the engine once beyond valve adjustments.

good point. Just make sure the 6 is in good condition, it runs etc, that way you dont have any surprises pop up along the way.

Couple of clarification points. A 74 Carrera ROW engine is 210hp not 175. If it was built by a quality builder it could now have more. What was the last owner (16,000 miles) using it in and how hard did he push it? Get a compression test.

If you don't rush and keep your eyes open, you can save on the headers & muffler

T.C.

Based on the fact that this thread is surely going to end up being another worthless 6Vs 4 debate I'll keep my comments here to a minimum.. Because these threads are never productive for either engine or following.

The way I look at it, if you are going to do a damn conversion, just drop in a Chevy V8, at least it's dirt cheap and offers mind blowing performance with insane reliability.. If you are going to add weight, at least do it with 8 cylinders.

Oh yea it runs well:

Engine running video

I agree I have already picked up an SC front suspension and brakes, I also have an S4 set up but it would be overkill for the 2.7. So when I build my v8 monster it will get the S4's. The 2.7 will get SC brakes front and rear.

Agreed. I have seen lots of used 914 6 headers sell pretty reasonably on ebay. Also, I think all I need is a stock 911 muffler. I could just use the one that is coming on the engine.

sorry I was wrong about it being a ROW it is a 911/93 50 state engine 175 hp 163 ft lb of torque.

I will not get into a 4 vs 6 debate as the 4 popper comes out like

As mentioned elsewhere, the 74 Carrara ROW engine is basicly a 73 RS engine.
A guy selling that for 2750 is a fool or misrepresenting the motor.
Take some time (I hope you haven't laid out any cash) and find out just exactly what it is. This can be done by finding the type number....on the case to the right, below & aft (bout 3 inches)of the fan housing. It will be 911/XX. None of the rest of the numbers mean squat (including the serial no.) in this regard.

Good luck.

For the kind of money you are looking at, I would agree...only if the motor needs nothing.

A hopped up four, once built, is pretty easy to re-ring.
Its cheaper to get the heads freshened up than a 6.
the lower end is tough. Overall, the rebuild costs are lower on a four and easier to do...

BUT,,,will a hopped up four need nothing for 150k...(a 180HP one)
I doubt it. I think with the right motor a 6 makes economical sense.

I am personally trying to tune in to the 2-3k motor...is that a 2.0 a 2.2 a 2.4 or a 2.7.
Buy a few used ones...toss them in and run them till they die...then bolt in another used one...never rebuild any of them.....
Just find the motor that no one likes or is not the most desired motor.
Seems the 2.7 may be that motor...

Rich

Because of funds I'll be sticking with a 4cyl for probably a long while, but man I do love the sound of a Porsche flat 6.

If your looking for value I have sort of learned over the years there seems to be a couple of levels of value for money spent etc:

Totally stock, just keep it that way FI/4cyl with the exception of maybe SSI's or something. - Best return for your dollar

V8 conversions - Seems they yeild a better return due to the conversion being less then a 911-6 engine but make the cars fun.

6 conversion - Very expensive, tons of people want them though. But unless they are done "Right", they don't get as much as good stock 2.0FI 4cyls do or even well done V8's.

Built 4's - Don't know that I have every really seen any 914-4's all hopped up for sale before that weren't dedicated track cars. I remember 914 lite with his 2.5 that got parted out because he couldn't sell the car. Less demand because not as much cool factor?

There are so many conversions like Subbies etc that I cannot even think to list them all. But my opinion would be if you have a good stock FI car and runs and drives and looks good, leave it alone and drive it. You want to put a 6 or V8 in a 914, buy one that has already been converted to carbs at least. Good stock 914's are getting harder and harder to come by.

You see, there can be a talk about 6 and 4 engines without it being a worthless debate thread about which one is better.

Larry, I just disagree about the "selling of the 914", for sure. Some guys have had their 914s since 1977 and beyond. So if the sale of YOUR 914 is part of your plan, than YOU would have to take the financial situation into consideration. It seems that most conversion guys (including myself) do the conversion with 3 things in mind, reliability, availability, and fun IMO. I can tell you this is why I did it. It seems most conversion guys (including myself) Also don't focus so much on the cost of the conversion as long as it is done correctly, because we are "going for the gusto"....in other words, we want the most fun, with the least problems, including maintanance problems, and really, don't plan on getting rid of the car, but if it happens, are willing to take a sacrifice, if the car doesn't get the offer of the money we have spent on it ( which NOBODY can say will or won't, you have to ask for the rite amount, at the rite time, for the rite person, just like any other car out there).

One more thing......As far as adding up the money to do a re-build motor compared to a conversion...well....I think by the time you deal with constanly putting money AND time into these 2.2s, or 2.4s, or 2.7s, That it seems just about EVERYONE is doing, you midus well just have a good ol' American motor That is simple to work on and get AFFORDABLE parts for, and give you the power and fun you are looking for in the first place !!!

There is so much talk about doing a conversion well, or you will be sorry. Well ,isn't that to be said about ANY re-build, or motor transplant ? No matter what you dedcide to do, It has to be done rite, rite ??? So all the big hype about how dangerous a conversion done well is hard to come across is a bunch of bologna !!! ? The reason screwed up conversions are always brought to a main focus are because some people don't want to admit they are "real Porsches" and all that crap. If you can get someone or yourself to follow instructions correctly and re-build an engine and install it, than how come the same can't be done for a "conversion". Don't believe the negative hype, investigate more into the conversion before you make your final decision. You have to remember ......conversion guys had that 4 banger, but did the 4 banger guys ever have a conversion ? So if people that have conversions tell you they like it better than the previous, than what is that telling you ??????? ......just my opinion.........

Whenever you build a car you need to ask yourself a question. Why am I doing this? If your answer is to make money on resale I have some bad news for you. Unless you have access to cheap cars, parts, labor or your a paint and body man you wont make much $. Out of all the cars I've built I've only made money on one. It's never cheap to do things right. I do it because I enjoy it. Not because I want to make some cash come resale time. If you want to sell it why bother fixing it up? Seems like a waste of time and effort.

You have to do whats right for you.

I just completed a 2.7 conversion in a car that had a big four in it. The big four had gobs o' torque, but was temperamental.

My car is not a street car and is set up for DE/racing - but the basic reason for me to change was... I wanted to drive a 6 at speed - plain and simple. I did most of the conversion myself with help installing the motor, fabricating the oil lines, roll cage mods and final chassis setup and corner balance. THis is a tub car and is basically like what I wanted to race when I was a kid. I have no illusions about value and know this is NOT an investment. I didn't put this car together to sell and make money.

four or six - do it 'cause YOU want to....

heres a link to when we first ran it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQzhd5RL1bo

There is nothing like the sound of a hot rodded "6" IMHO !!!

and the thing i've heard over & over is the unexpected nickle & diming of the big 4's to finish off.

I enjoyed reading Jakes post on this thread......"Based on the fact that this thread is surely going to end up being another worthless 6Vs 4 debate I'll keep my comments here to a minimum.. Because these threads are never productive for either engine or following.

The way I look at it, if you are going to do a damn conversion, just drop in a Chevy V8, at least it's dirt cheap and offers mind blowing performance with insane reliability.. If you are going to add weight, at least do it with 8 cylinders".

CCLIN2008

hrmmmmmm...

Chevy... Porsche... Chevy... Porsche... Last time I checked these were Porsche-VW made, so it's the purist in me that can't fathom putting american iron in our little gems. To each your own though.

Ummmm, stunning advice.

As I see it, the 901 flat six and it's derivatives are the most successful racing engine of all time. Congrats Larry. Should be one hell of a nice package when you're done.

thanks eric