Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: after 2 yrs I was publically called out by Kanna Motorsports
914World.com > The 914 Forums > The Paddock
byndbad914
Here is what they posted regarding an issue I mentioned with their junk 2 yrs ago in the track car pix area.

QUOTE(kanna @ Nov 13 2008, 07:26 AM) *

The following is a copy of a PM sent to this poster....
It aggravates me when a single person posts unwarranted comments.
As I stated in my PM ....let's see some pictures.

After viewing a post that you made, I would like to respond to your accusations of our 935 control arm breaking. A review of our records show no sale of a 935 system shipped to you. If in fact if you did purchase one of our systems, you would have our telephone number which you obviously never used.
Every single 935 system is check on an actual chassis for fitment prior to shipment, so your claim of it not fitting leads me to believe this is classic case of not following directions.
There are over 40 of our 935 systems installed and in use, and not one, to my knowledge has failed due to material or fabrication.
I fail to see any pictures of this supposed failure anywhere on the 914 world site, which leads me to wonder if you in fact did some "backyard" engineering and don't want anyone to see the facts, and just point the finger at us.
I stand behind every item that I make, if there is a problem it would have been corrected if you had put as much effort in picking up a phone as you do slandering people.

QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Jan 3 2007, 12:32 PM) *

Wanted to get a shot at Willow Springs before leaving for Colorado, but the new 935-style lower arms I bought from Kanna Motorsports snapped in two with only 1/3 of a lap down when I went out last month mad.gif That 30 seconds of track time cost me about a grand and, of course, Kanna won't respond to my email asking them WTF they would like to do about it.

Don't buy Kanna Motorsports stuff PERIOD. A couple other items I got required additional machining as well to make them right btw.

But here it is when I picked it up at the chassis shop.
(I snipped all the pix of the car to save space here)



and here was my reply to them, just so everyone knows exactly what is going on. Additionally, as many of you already know about my car, it was professionally built and is in no way a "backyard" car.

took me awhile to find the thread they were talking about having my post. I will quote my response:
QUOTE
First and foremost this happened 2 yrs ago, so it's been a loooonnnngggg time ago. Secondly, I called a number of times after it happened, left messages and even emailed you jackasses.

Thirdly, and more importantly, you sold me the lower control arm piece only (and some upper strut mounts which also needed to be remachined BTW), but it was a "custom" piece you had made for someone else, then they apparently didn't take it and you offered it to me. It was custom because you had made an adjustable sleeve so that you didn't have to unbolt the arm to adjust camber. That sleeve piece that was made had a 3/4" outside thread and a 5/8" inside thread.. which means there was less than 1/8" of material holding that arm together in tension and I didn't catch that when the car was built. As I entered turn 5 at Willow Springs, on the first lap, maiden voyage of the car that custom piece you had made tensile failed, snapped in half, causing the front tire to be shoved back into my car, destroying a brand new Hoosier, busting my fiberglass rocker bodywork, etc. That was a $1000 day for me between new tire, track fees, round trip gas for 30 seconds of track time, and damage to my car.

Don't you fucking dare fire at me after 2yrs of hearing nothing from you - after waiting to hear from you for quite awhile and hearing nothing I made that post to let others know to stay away. This failure happened in December of 2006! I left no less than five phone message, and fired a couple emails as well. It was not installed improperly or any thing like that. In fact, if I search around my garage I think I still have the failed part and I would have been happy to take a photo to show you but your attitude right out of the hole is BS and I am thru with you. Or you can cut me a check for $1000 and we will call it even.

In addition after thinking about this a bit and stewing even more (trust me, this was the worst track day of my life to date and a reeeeaaaaal sore spot) I should point out the camber/caster upper strut mounts were shit as well. There are four bolts that hold the two pieces together - one of them was drilled far enough off center you couldn't get the fourth bolt in - they did of course and the threads had clearly dug into the aluminum part while they forced it in place. AJ just ended up hacking that part a bit, supporting it with the frame and to this day I just run 3 bolts as everything is now in compression and shear friction.

After AJ cut the arm to reset the length and we removed his shit ass adjuster piece, I haven't had a single issue with the arm. I suspect if you only use their non-sleeved, single adjustable part you may not have any issues, as that is essentially what I have now. I should have known better than to take custom pieces that were refused by a previous customer.

Just understand their level of craftsmanship is faaaarrrrr and away more backyard than anything on my car. At the time I purchased these parts I had more money than time and didn't care to machine them myself when I could just buy them for a good price (I have long since moved on from machining parts when I became a professional engineer). However, I got what I paid for apparently.

Since it has been 2 yrs I may or may not still have that shit piece in my garage and will look around for it and post a pic of that POS so everyone on this forum can see what a POS that part was. Had this prick answered no less than 5 voicemails including one I left driving home after spending 3hrs on the track trying to get this car on the trailer, and a couple emails I also sent, this would have never happened and would not have been public.

There is your Kanna customer service... ship you crap shit, you can leave them a bunch of messages, etc, after it fails immediately, then wait 2 yrs so you might not have the offending part (I have moved twice since including a new state so probably why he can't figure out the order which is almost 3 yrs ago now), come from outta nowhere... again, wait for it.... AFTER 2 YEARS... and accuse you of never having ordered or used their parts, blah blah.

You may have wanted to send me a more polite, inquisitive email before going public jackass - you only dig yourself a deeper hole. I will take some pix of the shit upper pieces and the raw alum showing in the slots where we had to go in and make clearance so the threaded fasteners would actually slide in the slots. I essentially rely on the lower arms for all of my caster and most of my camber adjustments after having to just hard mount your shit pieces.

You have managed to get me boiling about something I have tried to forget for 2 fricken years now.
byndbad914
so fired up I took an hour off work, ran home and took some pics of the parts I never bought. Pix are kinda big but I left them so everyone can get a good idea of how thin their custom piece was the held the front strut in place smoke.gif AJ told me over the phone after he was working with them he wasn't sure about them but I blew him off and said "they say they do this all the time" or something similar. Well...

Click to view attachment


byndbad914
don't have to be an engineer to know you shouldn't thread the outside 3/4" RH and the inside 5/8" LH!!! I did the math back when it broke and IIRC there was literally only .030"-.050" thick sections with high stress concentrations from cut threads holding the whole lower arm together!

Just because you can use a machine makes you a machinist, not an engineer, nor for that matter prove any sort of common sense. I can't believe I didn't catch this when I adjusted the suspension the first time... I sorta recall thinking looks kinda spindly but again, "they do this kind of stuff all the time" in the same sentence they refer to this as a custom piece.

Look how thin!!!! Keep in mind, the rod end has 5/8" diam threads!!!!!! for comparison. I literally shit myself when I saw the failure and saw how thin.

Click to view attachment
byndbad914
BTW it has been so long I don't have your phone #s programmed in my cell phone anymore (figured I would never here from you jokers ever again) but I had both your shop and cell #s back then. You had given me your cell one time you told me you were going racing or on vacation or similar, they were shipping out and if I had any ?s give you a call on your cell. I left messages on BOTH phones at the time they broke, then fired off two emails after that over the course of a 1 month timeframe (broke the car first week of Dec, you will see my original post was Jan 3rd after I had heard NOTHING). Great, great customer service.

work got in the way there... back to posting mo'
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
now for their shitty upper mounts - AJ and I finally gave up dicking with them, and basically made the best of a bad situation, hacked them to tuck near the cell to ensure I could get enough camber range, and I was left to rely almost completely on the lower arms for camber and completely for caster. Notice how one bolt is missing but also notice how boogered and hammered the threads are - that is where they forced the fourth bolt in before shipping to me (sorta grainy cuz my digital cam has a hard time focusing that close but you will get the point)
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
bit better at showing how the threads had dug in when they assembled it - you also can see the bare alum where we had been trying to grind clearance into the part so it would adjust but just wasn't gonna happen without complete remachine of the part - called you on this shit as well BTW. You were never around once you had my money and sent the parts.


Click to view attachment
byndbad914
notice how well the tolerances are held on thread placement - the fourth hole is clearly shifted over relative to the slot
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
the passenger side, again bolt doesn't line up. This one came unassembled in box with the bolts laying with it shades.gif if one won't go together, leave it to me to assemble the other, right!
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
forgot, another shot of the bitchin' custom double adjusters
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
here is the arm after I cut it in half, ordered two 5/8" thru/3/4" thread HD heim joints at $45 each, lengthened the arm to match what it should be without the adjusting sleeve. Not an single issue since, so my "backyard" engineering seems to be working much fucking better than your "professhionaul" job jackass (I spelled that just for someone of your caliber)
Click to view attachment
byndbad914
On the way back to work I realized I forgot to snap shots of your two ball joint "pins" that the lower arm attaches to. That was the real reason I bought your kit - I didn't have the time to draw up a pin and have machined locally as the lathe at the old hot rod shop I worked at in college couldn't hold tolerance below 0.005" and the cost of all that made your stuff seem like a slam dunk.

But I will get pics, two pins, identical parts, machined I am assuming back to back and even THOSE aren't identical and I could barely get the nut down on one side to lock the cotter key in place. I will be sure to post that excellent machine work here as well later.

Keep in mind, you did this to yourself going public with your response before contacting me directly to find out what really happened. Tool.
So.Cal.914
Something Vexes thee? biggrin.gif I looked at your pic's, I am not an engineer but I built commercial buildings for years. I would draft the plans and then had to deal with the city engineers and my MEP engineers. I again am not an expert but I would not have trusted those parts to hold up my pants. I can not blame you for being pissed.
URY914
popcorn[1].gif I love this kind of thread..... stirthepot.gif happy11.gif
byndbad914
yeah, I am beyond pissed right now. This has been one of those things that every time I pop the front hood to do an alignment I get reminded of how shitty this whole deal was and is just one of those festering wounds that left untouched will never flair up but scratch that itch and shit is on.

A few of you have met me personally and definitely thru chat/phone convos about my car, etc and know I am a pretty level headed dude... it is this sorta crap that fires me up beyond belief tho'. I would have never taken anything public had they called me or emailed me after this happened and handled the issue 2 yrs ago. And I let it die after saying my piece 2 yrs ago.

My favorite part of the whole thing is how he looked at a username "byndbad914" and would have my residence in CO and simply assume he could find an invoice after over 2 yrs since the purchase. Jesus - did I purchase these under the name "byndbad914"... I should see if I can even get a credit card issued to that name laugh.gif and of course I lived in a different state at the time.

Getcha some 'corn folks!

edit - oh yeah, and imagine the fun I had the day it broke! The left one let go juuussst as I entered T5 (turning to the left) at fortunately only about 30-40mph and wadded the susp up in the car and I had to drive it off track. Then while I spent almost 2 hours shutting the track down with 3 corner workers and two jacks getting it on the trailer, and then the other one broke off taking the car off the trailer. Having this happen 2 yrs later I should have flown to their shop and returned them thru the front windows. I spent almost as much making these work as if I had done them with AJ from scratch. It is my lesson learned - take notes guys!
biggy72
So these were custom parts and more people aren't running around with them? The parts could have been twice as thick and they probably would not have held up. Threads are stress concentrators.

Their customer service skills suck and their engineering sucks as well, but ultimately if you're putting a "custom" part on your car I feel like it's your choice whether you're comfortable with the parts or not.
PeeGreen 914
Wow.... just wow... blink.gif

I hate it when people are so full of their product they do this. Especially to call YOU a backyard mechanic. Obviously they have never seen your car. screwy.gif
PeeGreen 914
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 13 2008, 05:29 PM) *



My favorite part of the whole thing is how he looked at a username "byndbad914" and would have my residence in CO and simply assume he could find an invoice after over 2 yrs since the purchase. Jesus - did I purchase these under the name "byndbad914"... I should see if I can even get a credit card issued to that name laugh.gif and of course I lived in a different state at the time.




I love it when people do that. AA did that to me as if I actually order from my name and not the shop I buy EVERYTHING for my car through. av-943.gif headbang.gif
byndbad914
dude, these guys makes AA look like they deserve a "customer service of the year" award! I had my issues with George as well.

Funny how I just got some pieces from Jim at Patrick Motorsports cuz I am trying progressive tender springs this time around and the collars didn't fit my Fox Shox. 'Course they fit all the Konis, etc and standard Porsche stuff but not Foxes, so what did he do... MACHINED A SET TO FIT AND SHIPPED SAME DAY. I am sending the other back - he covered the cost of machining and I covered the shipping both ways. THAT is customer service.

For the record, I have ordered thousands of $$ worth of stuff from Patrick and Pelican and have NEVER had an issue and always felt I got a square deal. So it ain't me.

biggy72 - I have a hard time agreeing I am accepting responsibility for their custom parts. Keep in mind, I didn't ask them to make them, they offered them to me as a better solution and I took the bait. Had I told them to machine it like that, then hell yeah, my bad. I simply bought parts from a supplier that assured me they knew what they were doing.

This may have been the only set ever made this way for all I know. He told me a customer wanted a setup you didn't have to unbolt heims to adjust (makes sense to me as well!) but the deal fell thru and he had 'em ready to go, so I bought 'em.
plymouth37
Wow, best comeback ever! You are lucky their shoddy craftsmanship didn't get you killed. I don't think it matters whether it was a custom job or not, they sold you a poorly engineered part that failed and they should be held responsible for that failure pure and simple. That was a bad move attacking you, I have a feeling this thread could hurt business smile.gif
jd74914
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 13 2008, 09:13 PM) *

This may have been the only set ever made this way for all I know. He told me a customer wanted a setup you didn't have to unbolt heims to adjust (makes sense to me as well!) but the deal fell thru and he had 'em ready to go, so I bought 'em.


The situation sucked back then and the design sucks now. dry.gif

Now for the stupid question:

I think that I don't quite understand the system. Why didn't they just use right and left hand threaded heim joints so that you could loosen the jam nuts and twist them to loosen or tighten?


Nevermind. I'm dumb; I looked it up and now can see what broke.
byndbad914
Dana... ya think! laugh.gif

So how it would work, sorta hard to describe but I will post this pic again as a start

(big edit cut)

edit - hahaha I just read your post again and saw you figured it out.
biggy72
So you're telling me that looking at the part before they were put on the car, you didn't think they would break?

byndbad914
I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.
PeeGreen 914
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 13 2008, 09:17 PM) *

I discussed that earlier in the thread... I didn't disassemble and look at this stuff closely before installing. I basically got the box of stuff, took it to AJ and handed the stuff to him to work with. He mentioned he wasn't so sure about them, but I apathetically assumed everything was fine. Even when I set the alignment I thought it looked spindly but just assumed it would be fine. In the end it wasn't.

Frankly, when it broke and I really looked at the pieces I was shocked how thin it was - the fact that common sense should have prevailed when it was machined I would have seriously never expected to actually receive a part that poorly designed from a company that assured me they had working stuff on the track.

That said, I think I am sorta missing your point?

I am of the belief that if you order a product it should arbitrarily work and be without design risk (I know... a stretch and too ideological but generally speaking) so at that time I didn't go over every piece I was buying at the time with a fine tooth comb (keep in mind I dropped double digit thousands on chassis and parts in an eight month period there). Since this incident tho' I am much more skeptical and to double check items before I arbitrarily use them.

Lastly, I literally finished the car one month before I was relocating to a new state so the crunch was on and I was HAMMERING to get the car together as it took longer than expected (as with all projects) as I wanted to test it before moving thousands of miles away from the chassis builder, so I went with it and clearly tested it.



You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.
byndbad914
waiting to get confirmation from a fellow racer on another forum if he is cool with me posting his response here. He had a far worse experience IMO than I had with them but in short at one point he mentions the machining is done manually by a 12 yr old... and I have to agree. He is east coast and I am a night owl so I will see what he says tomorrow about copying his stuff over here.

Just when I think this sorta crazy crap only happens to me shades.gif
sean_v8_914
wow, that is thin. if you calc the diff OD to ID considering the thread minor it's even less than 1/8. damn near paper thin. I am glad your OK.

what bore and stroke combo do you run?
jhadler
QUOTE(Phoenix 914-6GT @ Nov 13 2008, 10:28 PM) *

You are 100% correct in that assumtion. If you buy a part that is designed and sold for what you buy it for the manufacturer is the one on the hook and liable. Since these are race cars we are talking about courts are less simpathetic towards us but still holds the same truth.


Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.

The parts Tim got were obviously done with little actual engineering, just some nifty machining. And it's a very good thing that all it cost him was some money and aggravation, and not something far far worse.

Yeah, I agree with what someone else said, I wouldn't trust those parts to hold up my pants... And those camber plates look like stromberg.gif . And they don't look like they'd hold any kind of stress at all with the back half of it cut away. Anyway, I digress...

When building something that was never produced by the manufacturer (Porsche), it's up to US to ensure that it's structurally sound enough to withstand whatever WE are going to do with it. I suspect that the poodoo double threaded link that Tim got saddled with would probably survive for years on a casually driven street car. But on his machine it folded up like rice paper. Nonetheless, it's our own responsibility to make sure that what we build isn't gonna get us killed. And just buying a part from a reputable building isn't gonna cover that. They don't know you, or what you're installing said part into.

Unless you're paying someone to build you a car from the ground up, you gotta do your own engineering. And if it means second guessing a parts supplier, ask the questions if they come up... Tim got burned, and I'm glad he didn't get hurt because of it. And his lesson is a good one for all of us. If you're building something far above and beyond what Porsche originally intended, think long and hard about how it's going to be effected by whatever you do...

-Josh2
byndbad914
Sean - I have a destroked 400 Chevy combo that I used to build a lot of for short track circle track cars and road race cars. Bore is 4.155" (+0.030") and the stroke is 3.250" (a stock 327 steel crank). The large bore really unshrouds the valves, especially the intake valve on the aftermarket heads (I pick up 5-7 cfm IIRC just using a 4.125" bore plate over the 4.000" bore plate on the flow bench). The short stroke with the 6" rod makes a nice rod to stroke ratio.

If I were to do it again tho' I would have used a steel 350 crank with the 3.480" stroke (377 cubes v. 353 cubes now) just because I moved to CO (lost power from 525HP originally) and have gone to 12" wide rears last year so I could easily hold the extra torque on the track these days.

Josh - This would have broken on any car, I wasn't even on it with my car (maiden voyage, rolling slow just to feel the car out). That is why when these guys went public to bash me I made it very clear why you shouldn't use them. I do hear you and agree when using standard parts on a race car

Just making sure no one ends up like I was or as we can all extrapolate, possibly worse.

I have actually been lucky twice in my life with something like this. Years ago before I was a mechanic (actually one of the things I always remembered as a mechanic) I had front end work done on my old 70 Mustang and the guy didn't put the cotter key back in one side of my tie rods. Rolling down a CA freeway, going to work, at ~70mph I decided to go a different way last minute and swing by a friend's work. As I rolled thru a much slower off ramp the tie rod fell out and I halted the interchange for quite awhile. Had I kept going my normal route that would have fallen out at 70mph, not 30mph. Same thing here - when the rod broke I was just getting courage with the new car, but was only rolling maybe 30mph or 40... but was heading to T8 within a few seconds and I would have opened it up there 100+.

Moral of all of this, caveat emptor for certain and always, always personally inspect every part you buy putting it on the car.

Oh yeah, Josh, almost forgot, the upper mounts, we hacked to fit but they are well supported by the steel "box" AJ built - they ain't goin' nowhere smile.gif
SirAndy
QUOTE(So.Cal.914 @ Nov 13 2008, 05:03 PM) *

I would not have trusted those parts to hold up my pants.

agree.gif
byndbad914
Interesting to see that after over 24hrs since his initial out of the blue slam on me he hasn't returned with a response idea.gif Do you think he got the message?! av-943.gif

Here is another guy's story - removed his name but it is on another forum... the surprising part was to find out this guy's main biz is pawning ice cream dry.gif but certainly everything makes sense now.

I do think, however, Kanna has a shot at hosting that show "Kicked in the Nuts" or whatever it's called happy11.gif

QUOTE

Dude,

I cannot blame you one bit. Here is my deal:

I sent my 3.0 struts to them, they were supposed to change the angle on the spindle, they didn't, the f ing spindle they built didn't fit over the Ohlins struts, I had to bore them.

The lower strut attachment piece was so f ing short that there was no way to even get the standard geometry. I had to engineer and build my own from stainless.

I bought their 935 front suspension pieces, since the lower arm attachment points are in double sheer, I had to modify the back of the trunk lower edges. Also they sent me front mounting plates that were never designed for a 914, took 4 months to get.

The machine work is hack, it is done manually by a 12 year old.

He has a small shop, and farms out most of the work, his main business is "Docs Ice Cream"

Ohlins only did 3 pairs of front struts for him. I had to redesign half the shit when I got it. They suck.

The blow off valves in the high speed were wrong, I had to change them after dynoing the struts.

I don't have anything good to say. If you bought their Ohlins Shock and strut package, contact me, I can make it work.

Buy from someone reputable. They aren't

PeeGreen 914
QUOTE(jhadler @ Nov 14 2008, 09:44 AM) *

Not that I think Tim doesn't have a valid point, but I'd be hard pressed to name one non-OEM manufacturer who sells parts for racing applications that offers a warranty or otherwise. Caveat Emptor baby.


Yes Josh, buyer should beware. However, something such as this is not a part any manufacture of parts would ever want to fail. People have lawsuits for much less than this and if you claim to make a part like this and claim it to be good I am sure a jury would not be kind to the manufacture. In fact, I would even venture to say they are lucky nothing happened to Tim as they could have a legal liability in this case. You have to remember that we live in a society that believes that someone HAS to be at fault when something bad happens.
byndbad914
I am the kind of guy that tends to brush himself off and move on, but to be 100% honest, I admit I almost filed a small claims suit on the guy just to make him have to pay to fly to CA (since that is where the incident happened and I, the plaintiff in a product liability suit, lived) and defend his junk. It was like $20 or something very cheap to file but I would have needed someone to serve him wherever he was at (he is back in the southeast like the Carolinas or FL IIRC - I think he was NC and was racing or vaca in FL which is why he gave me his cell # back then) and the hassle of finding someone to do it sorta halted the exercise.

That and the other issue is hard to say if a judge knows what they are always looking at, I could have laid the parts on his bench and he might have shrugged and said hmmmm, interesting... caveat emptor! hahaha. Judges tend to drive Porsches, not work on 'em hahahaha. And I would have had to take a day off work - where I was doing an honest job and earning my money v. ripping people off poke.gif
Porcharu
That just sucks. I am not a real engineer but I do play one at work. I am ultra conservative when I design parts, my stuff will never ever break - it might not be the lightest thing around but it won't break. That part you got was designed to fail and I am glad it broke (I'm not glad it broke at all) on the first lap, I know that corner well and I was always full tilt as I could make up some time on the high powered 'slow cars'.
The one and only time I ever got fired (my friend and I both got fired for this) was when my boss had a rear caliper come loose on his Silver State Classic race car - it was him who took the caliper off of to bleed the brakes - not me.
Steve
byndbad914
Given the fact those parts were going to fail, I too agree I am more or less glad it happened when it did as had it been after that first shakedown lap and I was starting to put power down and heat in the tires, WSIR is a fast track period and it could have been worse. The whole Bud balcony area is the slowest part, but still rather fast compared to nearly every other track! I drove the track in 3rd out there and 4th in the 2 long stretches and the other tracks and the one here in CO in 2nd,3rd in stretches so there isn't really anywhere you are driving slow there.

Which is why I love that track laugh.gif

Sorry about your tale with your job - but IMHO it was a good thing as working for someone that reacts like that and blames you for their mistake is never going to be a good job in the end.

I too am an engineer and why I sorta kicked myself over not catching this. Key was I had a LOT going on and became complacent and assumed the parts were fine instead of taking the time to really check them out, take the time to force a refund or exchange for better, etc. I just didn't have time as I was literally building a car and preparing for a move to a new job/state at the same time there end of 06 and it was a mad scramble - the haste makes waste kind of scramble.

History repeats.... haste makes waste has been a saying for lifetimes and hold true today. It just really, really sucks that everyone really has to take the time to trust no one... that is a sad statement but how I have to treat everything I purchase. That's reality, and it's foolish/childish to think there is some sort of Utopia offered but I do fall victim to that ideal periodically. smile.gif
EdwardBlume
Geez! This story is painful to read. How would they know that you're a stand up guy?

I say let's hear from Kanna Motorsports....

If they come out of the bushes, perhaps you and them could agree to have a 3rd party inspect the parts. If the parts are as shoddy as they look, they can cut you a check for $1000 and come out like stand up operators.

Kanna, are you listening?
naro914
Just fyi,....www.kannamotorsports.com is no longer in existence.
What is the guys name that owns Kanna?
byndbad914
yeah, I have noticed that site domain is down now. He is on the Pelican board quite a bit but no name is given, just Kanna and I honestly cannot remember his name - I am bad with names as it is and it has been 2 yrs.

I put a thread on the bird board as well so hopefully those folks over there see it and don't get screwed either. There, of course, has been no response from him anywhere, and trust me, the word is out so he knows.

He is in North Carolina according to his bird board info and that I more or less did recall earlier in my postings, so don't buy suspension stuff from a dude in North Carolina without verifying who he is!!
CliffBraun
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 25 2008, 09:18 PM) *

yeah, I have noticed that site domain is down now. He is on the Pelican board quite a bit but no name is given, just Kanna and I honestly cannot remember his name - I am bad with names as it is and it has been 2 yrs.

I put a thread on the bird board as well so hopefully those folks over there see it and don't get screwed either. There, of course, has been no response from him anywhere, and trust me, the word is out so he knows.

He is in North Carolina according to his bird board info and that I more or less did recall earlier in my postings, so don't buy suspension stuff from a dude in North Carolina without verifying who he is!!


The name I'm seeing online is Kevin Schilling. I'm not entirely sure, so don't burn his house down or anything, but he's listed as the contact here
another one: here
here
byndbad914
To be totally honest that name doesn't ring any bells with me, but it has been so long it is completely possible that he is the dude I dealt with. However, what seems weird is in the one thread you posted the tuner guy said this
QUOTE
He is originally from Joliet Il, and has just recently moved down here. This is his new car hence why we are setting it up. But he travels all over to race in the points series his name is Kevin Schilling I think I have a few more photos let me check.

And that was earlier this year, and I ordered a couple years back, and I swear it was in the Southeast and wasn't Illinois. Hence why NC seemed right when I saw it on his Pelican info. I know he was racing down around there when he gave me his cell # back then.

However, the other guy that got screwed big time by them that I copied his reply to me earlier mentioned he pawns Doc's Ice Cream, and that race car is covered with that so it must be the guy.

I will email the other guy that was screwed and ask him if he remembers the owner's name.

He has a nice car (apparently screwing folks pays well and the wife's a doctor), tho' I think that tuner's dyno is "optimistic" based on some of the other cars he talked about.

eidt - did some quick math to check #s and yeah... 3.2L is ~ 190 cubes or so, 436HP at the wheels, with 15% loss is 500HP, which translates to 2.6HP/cube.... BULLSHIT, I call BULLSHIT. Considering that the most efficient nat asprirated motors known to man are Pro Stock motors making just shy of 3HP/cube, that is BS. For comparison that would be like making my 353 cube SBC make 920HP with 12.5:1 compression. hahahahahahahaa, NOT.... it is amazing what people fall for.
CliffBraun
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 26 2008, 01:41 AM) *

To be totally honest that name doesn't ring any bells with me, but it has been so long it is completely possible that he is the dude I dealt with. However, what seems weird is in the one thread you posted the tuner guys said this
QUOTE
He is originally from Joliet Il, and has just recently moved down here. This is his new car hence why we are setting it up. But he travels all over to race in the points series his name is Kevin Schilling I think I have a few more photos let me check.

And that was earlier this year, and I ordered a couple years back, and I swear it was in the Southeast and wasn't Illinois. Hence why NC seemed right when I saw it on his Pelican info. I know he was racing down around there when he gave me his cell # back then.

However, the other guy that got screwed big time by them that I copied his reply to me earlier mentioned he pawns Doc's Ice Cream, and that race car is covered with that so it must be the guy.

I will email the other guy that was screwed and ask him if he remembers the owner's name.

He has a nice car (apparently screwing folks pays well and the wife's a doctor), tho' I think that tuners dyno is "optimistic" based on some of the other cars he talked about.


Well, the contact info for kanna as of 2004 is NC, same for in my first link.
Looking up Doc's finds his wife listed as owner Anna Schilling, that helps convince me. Their site
I'd bet guy who mentioned Il is misinformed in some capacity.

Really it would be best to find the business registration and get a name off that, but I'm fairly convinced they're the owners.
byndbad914
QUOTE(CliffBraun @ Nov 26 2008, 02:50 AM) *

Well, the contact info for kanna as of 2004 is NC, same for in my first link.
Looking up Doc's finds his wife listed as owner Anna Schilling, that helps convince me. Their site
I'd bet guy who mentioned Il is misinformed in some capacity.

Really it would be best to find the business registration and get a name off that, but I'm fairly convinced they're the owners.

Dude, you are far more resourceful than I am at this! thanks for the help with this.

If it goes back to 04 then that has to be the dude since I bought the parts in 06. All makes sense and seems to add up.

Oh yeah, and as for my edit with the math above, he said the engine was only ran to 6K. 500HP at 6K rpm on a NA 3.2L. I know those Mustang dynos are notorious for over-estimating but goooood lawd that is way out of whack. Apparently I can pick up a couple hundred HP just running the car on that tuner's dyno happy11.gif that might be the cheapest upgrade yet.
CliffBraun
QUOTE(byndbad914 @ Nov 26 2008, 02:00 AM) *

QUOTE(CliffBraun @ Nov 26 2008, 02:50 AM) *

Well, the contact info for kanna as of 2004 is NC, same for in my first link.
Looking up Doc's finds his wife listed as owner Anna Schilling, that helps convince me. Their site
I'd bet guy who mentioned Il is misinformed in some capacity.

Really it would be best to find the business registration and get a name off that, but I'm fairly convinced they're the owners.

Dude, you are far more resourceful than I am at this! thanks for the help with this.

If it goes back to 04 then that has to be the dude since I bought the parts in 06. All makes sense and seems to add up.

Oh yeah, and as for my edit with the math above, he said the engine was only ran to 6K. 500HP at 6K rpm on a NA 3.2L. I know those Mustang dynos are notorious for over-estimating but goooood lawd that is way out of whack. Apparently I can pick up a couple hundred HP just running the car on that tuner's dyno happy11.gif that might be the cheapest upgrade yet.


No problem. Kinda like in the Raby thread in the Garage, I feel the best response to this sorta thing is to help publicize information about the wrongdoers. You actually have legal recourse (maybe not at this point). But in either case it's far better form to just provide information to the public than to posture and threaten.

Hopefully when this guy pops up again we can make sure no 914ers suffer in the way you did.
Mikey914
I think you only have 2 yrs on property damage for legal recourse. Not worth the hassle, you can spend lots of money and make him spend money, but the only one who comes out ahead is the attourney you pay to f with him.
byndbad914
yeah, it has definitely been too long to bring a suit now. At minimum a judge would probably not accept the case even if the time limit were longer on something like this and rule against the case based on reasonable time given the situation.

that said, wouldn't bother with it and agree with Cliff, it is more important that others are aware of how he screwed both me and Erik over so everyone knows to not order from him. I rubbed some dirt in the wound to stop the bleeding a long time ago and just fixed the stuff the right way.
naro914
If it's Kevin, I know him pretty well actually. Really surprises me since he's a pretty good guy (though I never bought anything from him). In fact, I never knew he had a race "shop" or anything, I only know him because of the ice cream and as a PCA member....
ConeDodger
Looking at that part, I would call the police and report a murder attempt.
byndbad914
QUOTE(naro914 @ Nov 29 2008, 07:24 PM) *

If it's Kevin, I know him pretty well actually. Really surprises me since he's a pretty good guy (though I never bought anything from him). In fact, I never knew he had a race "shop" or anything, I only know him because of the ice cream and as a PCA member....

apparently he really doesn't have a shop, which is something I didn't know and was never implied in my communications. Instead, he pawns ice cream and outsources all of the machining according to the other guy that was screwed by him.

That essentially means to me, assuming it is true he outsources all of the machining, that he probably took someone else's 935 suspension to a machinist, had them try to copy it but in a cheap fashion so he can undersell the other person. Speculative but pretty easy to extrapolate from the info I have thus far. In any case, he has no idea what he is really getting, has no clue how to make it, likely had something copied, "improved" it by putting the lower A in double shear which doesn't even matter and also doesn't fit as Erik found out without cutting the floor, etc. So when I came along and he had a slick, custom part, he had no clue of what he had and, as Erik put it, some 12 yr old machined up some funky parts, and off to me they went.

and I agree, good call on the attempted murder laugh.gif All kidding aside, this jackass really did put me in harms way and had I made it 2 more turns I would have ran the car up to over 100mph thru T8.
r_towle
[quote name='byndbad914' date='Nov 30 2008, 02:28 PM' post='1106895']
[quote name='naro914' post='1106729' date='Nov 29 2008, 07:24 PM']
That essentially means to me, assuming it is true he outsources all of the machining, that he probably took someone else's 935 suspension to a machinist, had them try to copy it but in a cheap fashion so he can undersell the other person. [/quote]

Do a search on the front a rear a-arm and trailing arm bearings.

Who had made them for 25 years or more...
Then they were copied and attempts to make them cheaper have been tried.

Rich
charliew
I'm not a me but my youngest son is. The education was to hard and the women to hot. I'm just a old hotrodder and do it myself kind of guy, BUT
I know this is a old thread but the internal bolt threads would work ok as long as the heim was inside the bolt far enough that it was all covered by the threaded area of the a arm tube. So that there was no hollow area unsupported on the thin part. When it is adjusted out too far and then the hollow part is exposed it is not strong enough. I don't know if the heim is long enough to make this adjustment viable but it could be successful if the a arm tube was longer to go over the heim threads at least the length of the heim threads diameter fully.
byndbad914
actually even if you had threaded the sleeve into the arm, then the heim into the sleeve, and both were fully supported, you could still have a failure. The suspension will put the heim joint in tension, pulling on the threads, which puts threads in shear.

Having that sleeve in there would create a weak shear interface and tho' the heim threads and the arm threads wouldn't fail, that sleeve could shear out just like stripping threads out of a nut. Unlike a heli-coil (if that is how you are thinking of this) which has inner and outer threads on the same winding (they use custom taps), this had two different threads, very close in diameter, with two different pitches inside and out, creating a very thin shear interface periodically.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2024 Invision Power Services, Inc.