Is the Dansk OEM muffler a flat gray or a satin gray? Does anyone have a good paint match? Pictures make it look almost like a primer. Thanks...

http://www.nlaparts.com/store/exhaust-grey-paint-p-653.html

Here's the correct color paint for a 356. I would think it would be
the same or close for a 914.

Should be a flat gray. Yes, it does almost look like primer!

But, if you clean up periodically, it will take on a satin finish.

The paint is fairly thin, so don't go after it with abrasives.
Pat

The NOS muffler that I have for my '74 1.8 is not painted. It's also not installed on the car, when I install it, should I paint it?

I find this interesting. My most recent muffler is a Dansk, but from 1990. It is painted (I'll send pics tomorrow), but by Dansk. Have things changed that much that Dansk no longer protect the mufflers with paint? Wow!

Jon, if yours is bare metal - don't wait to paint it until after it's installed!

Use very fine steel wool, wipe it down, prep-solve it, & put a high temp primer on it immediately. I'll leave it too the current gurus of high temp finish paints to provide the info for a final coat(s). But, it should be light gray.
Pat

Here be a (I hope) saisfactory pic showing correct color and finish. This is a OEM spec item on a '70/4.

Pat, my muffler has survived 34 years without any protection and there is no rust on it at all. For now, it is neatly wrapped in a box in my basement. Im still deciding whether I should save it or install it. I don't like using my NOS parts

Great info everyone! I just bought a used stock muffler from a fellow club member. From the pictures, it's been painted black, and I want to repaint it back to the stock color.

I will most likely buy a can of the 356 gray paint. As far as primer, I have a can of 500 degree Fahrenheit primer. Do you think this is a high enough temperature rating? (Assuming it's compatible with the paint) I really don't know just how hot the muffler gets.

I got that info from John Patterak. He said he sent them a muffler and had them color match it using VHT high temp paint. Seems like a safe bet

Stoddards has VHT make them a CUSTOM Color NLA Grey
high Temp Paint..CONCOUR Correct....Spray Can or Quarts..

I have a question about the OEM Muffler for a `73 2L that I need to clean-up & repaint -

Did it originally or ever have a chromed or polished or semi-polished or stainless steel tailpipe section?

In the photo at the link below for PP's Dansk "OE style" below, it sure looks "shiny" to me!?

http://www.automotion.com/product.asp?pf_i...mp;dept_id=4573

I bought the 2.0 OE style Muffler in the pic below from Midas back in 1980 with a Lifetime Replacement Guarantee. I think I recall that they sourced it from either Dansk or whomever was the Porsche OES at the time, so it was good quality. Pat - this one was also not painted at the time it was installed, but had some sort of a protective coating on it, which has obviously failed at this point. So priming & painting seems like a good idea to me!

I suppose that they'd still be on the hook to get me a new Dansk whenever it should fail, but it's still solid at this point - the car having been stored in my SoCal garage since 5/85 due to the body damage above it (& a new family back then).

Although it looks rusty - its just surface crud that I can steel wool off & refinish with the hi-temp primer & grey paint noted in this thread - at the time I have to pull it off to redo both sides of my rusted-out heat exchangers - but I'm unsure how to do the tailpipe section?

Anyone out there know how I should finish the tailpipe on this?

Also - any leads for some new OEM/OES or Stainless `73 2.0 Heat Exchangers?

AA has SS at $605 per side, but that seems awfully steep to me!

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Tom, no chrome tips. Just grey.

REALLY - ALL GREY !?

Tod - Look at the pic below & note the "silver" or "shiny" look of the tailpipe section, vs. the grey painted body. Is that just an unpainted or clear coated natural steel finish? I seem to recall that mine looked that way at first, and this is the 3rd on my car - including the OE one when new.



DANSK OE-STYLE 914-2.0 REPLACEMENT MUFFLER:

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VERSUS MY CURRENT SPECIAL CUSTOM CORTEN-STEEL-STYLE RUST TREATMENT:

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Tom, what Tod means is the original mufflers where grey. The pic you've posted of the 'OEM' replacement from Dansk; somewhere along the way they decided to chrome the tip. I suppose they have fallen vicitim to the Bling mentality.

When new, back in the day, no chrome.

My muffler is NOS, with the grey coating, also I have a gray tailpipe.

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So I guess I can refinish mine all grey per OE, but I'll be "stuck with" the chrome or shiny tip Dansk when mine finally gives out, since that's the only one on the market now that vaguely resembles the OE.

...and I don't wnat the aftermarker bursch, Dansk, etc. 4 pipe look!

BIG THANX GUYS! After 24+ years in my garage, the ole memory fades! ...not to mention the "half-zymers"!

- ya know, where you remember half the stuff half the time!? ...err, I think that's how it goes......ummmmh?????

I've seen a few NOS 2.0 mufflers for sale over the past year or so. Keep an eye on ebay and thesamba.com one will show up.

I have the newer style Dansk on '73; works just fine. If you want it to look original just take off the chromed finish and paint it.

I personally don't mind the chrome tailpipe, and certainly Porsche put chromed exhaust tips on the same period 911s & 912s, so I don't really "get" the "strict interpretation" by PCA that comparable period "upgrades &/or accessories" aren't acceptable.

Frankly & no offense to all of you concours gurus, but I personally think that the grey tailpipe sticking out below/thru the black valence, & especially when below the chromed bumpers, just looks unfinished and shows a bit of the "orphaned child syndrome"! ...I mean, couldn't Porsche at least have OE painted them a flat or matte black to blend in a bit!?

Maybe it's just a conspiracy by those 911ers & 912ers to cheat to keep up with the teeners!?

Sure glad I won't be showing the car for the "points hunt," but I will try to keep it as true to form as I can be. And since I already paid for that 1983 "Lifetime Guarantee" from Midas for my current muffler - I'll just let them source the Dansk or whatever other proper 2.0 replacement is available at that future date. I'm not trying to cheap out, but guys & gals - I've got several $1000's of parts & work to git 'er dun & back on the road & lookin' purdy after 24 years of waiting patiently!

...so getting a "new" grey muffler will be the least of my worries over the next 12+/- months! - no offense intended. However, when I pull it off to fix the rusted thru & still original 73 OE heat Exchangers - I will clean up my current muffler & prime/paint it grey per OE, since it's still solid & works at this point.

However, I will offer to repaint the chrome/natural metal tip for any buyer who prefers that look - IF I EVER SELL HER, THAT IS!!!!

At the risk of opening a whole new can of worms - what's the position on using Stainless Steel 2.0 Heat Exchangers, now that OE is NLA?

I understand that SS will last far better/longer & therefore be safer in the long run than OE (for those of us who plan to actually drive our 914s) - even if I could find them NOS or good shape used around. I'll even concede to line the SS ones up with the muffler & prime/spray them the OE grey too! ...will that work Okay?

...or does somebody have a secret source for OE 2.0 Exchangers at a reasonable price that I've not found yet!? (I missed a few close ones though!)

FYI - Here's a couple of glimpses of what bodywork I'm up against, in addition to getting all of the mechanicals back up to speed after sitting on blocks for 24 years since 5/85.....

REAR END DAMAGE

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...AND.......

...FRONT END DMAGE

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...AND.....

...LF HEADLIGHT ASSEMBLY

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...AND....

...FRONT CHROME BUMPERS, TOPPER & L&R "TITS"

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...AND......

...MASHED TITTIES

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...AND......

...REAR CHROME BUMPER & TOPPER & BOTH FULL L&R TAILLIGHT ASSEMBLIES WITH US LENSES

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...AND.....

...BATTERY TRAY & SUPPORT + MISC HELLHOLE SURFACE RUST CLEAN-UP & ENGINE FUEL & IGNITION/EFI SYSTEMS' MAINTENANCE, ETC.

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....AND......

...RUST ROT AT PASSENGER-SIDE FRONT FLOOR PAN

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...AND.....BRAKES & SUSPENSION BUSHINGS & TIE-RODS....

....Oh my! I think I'm getting ...and maybe, yup!

...then just as the bills roll in!!!!

Get my drift!?

Man....

do you have an attachment to that car? Even in Colorado I would see that as a parts car. With the availability of good cars in CA, I cant imagine fixing all of that.
More power to you...

Hmmm.......

Well I was thinking that since the rest is solid, engine rebuild only had 29k & tranny 26k, interior & rest of car is pretty good + plus it's an early 2L with a matching engine number & full EFI still intact - ergo having better value when repaired/restored - vs - transplanting the 2L engine/trans into another roller!?

.[/b]..is that not the case???

I guess I would have to understand what you mean by "restored". If it were me, the car would first have to be completely taken apart, then new front and rear clips installed. Then throw it on a rotissory and media blasted to see what is actually left.

I dont know how many 73 2.0's have 72 build dates - I would guess there would be quite a few. Dont dealers usually start getting the following year cars in the fall?

Perhaps you are more hands on than me, but that looks to be a big dollar restoration. If your end result is simply to get it operational again, I guess I can see that. Just looking at the pics, I could see dropping 20k (maybe more) into a full resto.

What are "new front and rear clips" ???? excuse my 914 parts terminology ignorance!? ...do you mean new front & rear bulkheads or body panels? - vs. straightening mine?

I'd guess about half the 73 MY 2Ls would've been built in 1972 - or a bit less with it being a new model/engine, since they usually switch over MY production about June, and I've seen a 72 & 73 1.7 both with 6/72 production dates on their VIN plates. Mine is #424 GA out of 1954 total 73 914s - so that's about 20% of the total 73s up to Sept. 72 production date of mine - say in the 1st 3 months. So I'd guess-timate perhaps 800-900 2Ls were built during 72, and the rest of the 73-2Ls later.

And #424 may not represent a true 1st 25% of the total 73-2Ls built, because there was a ramping up on the early 2.0's, and I can recall waiting lists and a crush to try to get the early ones coming out during calendar 1972. Ergo, I thought mine with an early engine & VIN numbers - but past the odd "first 1000" or so with mixed pre-73 & 73 parts, might be worth saving!? ...I know, they all are!

Scott - what you're referring to as a "restoration" - I would call a "Frame Up Full Rebuild," which is NOT what I'm proposing to do with mine. You can damage too many parts in that process - forcing you to replace just about everything, thereby driving up your costs probably closer to $30k with all the NLAs today, and can undo a lot of stuff done in the factory which we have no way of replicating today - possibly leading to damage, more rust (if that's even possible), unsafe roadability, etc.

However, I keep getting the confusion over a complete strip down to bare body/uni-body as the only ostensibly "true" restoration.

In my day - and I AM an old fart now! or nearly so at 56-57 - that full strip down & redo was called a "frame up rebuild" or "strip to frame rebuild"!

Whereas, a "restoration" was leaving the car largely assembled - only removing what must be taken off to repair & restore damage &/or to ease the repaint & repair work process, and perhaps stripping the surfaces to be repainted to bare metal if necessary to get a good finish. Pat Garvey's is probably a good example of this, unless he too did a "Frame-up Rebuild"?

The latter is what I'll be doing & not for concours, but rather to maintain the originality, value & structural/mechanical integrity of the car.

Back in the 60's I helped my Uncle do a frame-up rebuild on his "barn find" (literally) 58 Vette, so I know the diff!

And when you get into "Antique Car" circles (over 50 years old) - which the 914s soon will be & some 356s are already - it is considered preferable & more valuable to have a well "restored" car with a maximum number of well kept original parts still intact & unmolested - as they say - versus a completely "frame up rebuild" where nothing much is still original from the factory.

These are 2 entirely different processes, and generally recognized within other collector car circles - so why the confusion here at 914world?

Can Pat or some other CWs weigh in here on my apparent ignorance on this terminology regarding 914s???? ...what should I be calling my project's "goal" - so I don't keep corn-fusing everybody here???

I think that what Scott was trying to say is that theres alot more work there to be done than meets the eye. You'll end up digging deeper and deeper to repair damage and in the end it might be more cost effective to buy a really clean tub and transfer all your parts over, that way you'll have a solid original car.

That's an alternative that my old line German 914 mechanic since 75 suggested too, but then guys like George Hussey say to restore mine. The latter group contends that the end result's value is far less with a transplant.

Another alternative is to cut-n-paste any too far gone parts from a donor car, if the value is indeed better to keep the matching VIN & Engine numbers together.

Another concern out here in the "Peeples Republic of Kaulifornia", is that a transplant or "Frankenstein Kar" could lose it's California DMV eligibility for road use & registration, not to mention disqualifying it for the fearsome Smog Certification here. Even original 914s which have taken of their EFIJ & gone to Carbs face $1000s to get them back to stock & recertified!

The battery tray & support are mostly surface rust which could be cleaned up & repainted as-is, but I'd prefer to put new ones in & repaint to match. There is no rust rot in the Hell-hole - just surface stuff on & around the tray. But I do now wish I'd removed tha supposedly "sealed" battery back in `90 when it finally died & I stopped running the car monthly in the driveway! It wasn't like the pic I posted before then!

The passenger side front floor pan is relatively small & could be resolved with a 6-10" x 8-12" piece of sheet metal bent to shape & welded in place then treated for rust protection. I'll also need to figure out how water got into that area under the fuel tank & resolve that too!

Also, I would say that the damage looks worse than it really is - yeah-yeah, I know we all say that at first! But in reality, it's mostly the F&R bumpers/etc. & deck lids, with potential need to cut in F&R body face panels & LF Headlite Assy. & Fender - if these cannot be straightened.

A dead car such as this below could be had for under $500 for use as either a parts donor or transfer tub, seems to have all of the parts which I'd need - if they're clean & if it's still available or another.....

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I totally disagree. If you have a relatively straight/clean car that need some cosmetic bits – heck, even a quarter panel – I am all about fixing what needs to be done and keeping the car as a true “survivor”. Pats car is the perfect example of this at the utmost highest level – he replaces and cleans as needed to maintain a magnificent machine. I think you are even correct about true high level “drivers”, cars that may not have been kept as clean, have their areas of “patina” but were maintained and cared for at a very high level – just not a totally anal level (no offense Pat!). With the accident damage, the color change and how it appears the last paint job/color change was done without disassembling anything, I would not consider the car to be either of these.

Now, before I address some details, PLEASE understand that I am in no way trying to bash your car, or throw a wet blanket on your project. For the record, I am horribly jealous that you have the time to tackle it. I would kill for a free afternoon just to wash my car.

That being said, your car has been hit both front and rear. When I refer to replacing the clips, I mean cutting off lots of the front and rear of the car. I would probably go as far back as the middle of the front wheel wells (just infront of the strut towers) and as far forward as the cross brace in the rear trunk.
The car has three paint jobs and judging from the pics of the nose, the trunks were painted assembled – so the wiring harnesses, latches, etc etc etc have all been painted over. I am also concerned that by virtue of the rusted/broken suspension mount, that there could be some other rust issues hiding under that undercoating. Taking just these listed concerns into account, if the car was simply made functional and made straight enough for a new paint job, for me personally, without the details being addressed, I would never consider the car a survivor with any of the value that label can bring. I would call it simply a fun driver – and there is sure nothing wrong with that – that’s what I consider my car to be.

Thanx for the clarifications Scott & no offense taken - that's what I'm here for! ...basically to find out how "anal" I need to be on this project.

Don't be too jealous about my "time availability", as the real estate sector basically "sucks gas" right now & I have learned to just "go fishin' " to a certain extent in such times - being in the business since 1970. ...plus some of my spare time now online is driven by what I hope is a short time illness/health issue!

Even at that - keep in mind ALL that I made NO attempt to clean up nor wipe down anything for these pix, as I had limited time & was more concerned with assessing serious rust damage & documenting the body work needed for getting this type of input. Ergo - if it looks rusty on the surface, then it's just surface rust to deal with & "passed" my screwdriver prodding tests!

You're correct on the "as assembled" repaint overspray & it actually goes back to the first Tan/Gold possible buyer requested or dealer initiated repaint before I bought it - that's 3 repaints done as such, with one possibly being how it drove off the lot new. Basically only bumpers, lights, seals, etc. were taken off for those.

I'll certainly be taking both the earlier swap running gear (if I don't lose my CA DMV Smog Exemption by doing so), & your cut-n-paste suggestions above, into consideration with whomever I finally get for the bodywork! However, I don't want to cause even more huge costs to recertify the car with DMV if a "transplant" does that (I'll have to check with DMV), and others in CA on these forums have had similar problems.

As to the the "rusted/broken suspension mount" - I'm not sure to which of the following you're referring, but....

The battery tray area suspension mount is solid - I've poked around both sides, etc. to check it out well.

The front pass-side floor pan area with the "L" rust area is the mount/plate for the steering rack, and the mounting reinforcement plate is solid, but the sheet metal around it is rusted - & I think that's what you're talking about as a concern - correct?

It's below the cowl & fuel tank area & I've pulled off the steering gear cover plate to check that area up behind there, prodded with screwdriver, etc. & found no other rust damage around there, nor on the opposite driver-side. I'll have my mechanic & body guys advise on how best to fix it - but I'm hopeful it will just need a new Sheet metal repair plate welded into the floor pan.

Any ideas of where I should be looking for the source of the leak(s) causing this rust area to fix it/them?
...I had no idea it was happening at all, until I crawled under there!

What I'm hearing from you & others, is not to worry too much about doing a terribly authentic job, & just get it back to a decent runner to make me happy! - certainly not "CW Anal" No offense Pat - but then again he's actually apparently off that kick now & looking to do a car-beater USA Tour! ...why, he's even advised us all to get the newer 195/65HR15 tires rather than OE 165s - OMG!!!!

Thanx Again for your & All others' valuable input!