I am getting ready to do an engine swap in my car. I am converting to a 2.0 ford zetek engine ~370lbs-175hp with bolton mods. (not rice but close)

Coming up with all of the engine related mods does not concern me as much as figuring out how to cool it.

I would like to see some pictures of the front oil cooler/radiator mods you have done, Ideally I would like to retain some use of my front trunk.

Also how big of a hole can you cut out of the front of the car before you have to worry about structural problems.

Thanks

Check out Renegade Hybrids....they have THE radiator setup....

http://www.renegadehybrids.com/main.htm

The renegade setup is supposed to be the best out there - and apparently their new stuff is really sweet and sits right at the front of the car.

It's also much pricey though.

I bought a radiator from a golf (early nineties - I can look it up for you if you want. My intention is to fit it also fairly close to the front and to build a fibreglass bin for the trunk area above it (and also to direct air out of the bottom and sides of the existing trunk space. My intention is to move the spare to the rear trunk.

I think the renegade setup may be overkill for a four-banger. It would be a smarter thing to do, but I have to cut costs somewhere and that somewhere is here.

There is some math that needs to be done about how much the air expands when you warm it, and hence how much bigger the exit holes need to be than the entrance holes for air. Something to think about.

I would love to see some photos too. http://www.etischer.com has photos from a 1.8 subaru conversion.

I'm also interested in routes people take to get water through the car to the front, and how large the piping needs to be.

Fiid.

I have seen the renegade setup it looks good accept you lose the use of the front trunk.

I was hoping to put the radiator in at an angle slanted towards the back and run the air down through the radiator and out the bottom of the trunk.

Pictures of front air dams would be helpful also.

You could add some side scoops ala Mustang or Toyota etc and put small aluminium radiators on both sides.
CCLINRADRIDES

Two ways to route the Gates hose to the front. Under the car and thru the longs.

The reason you have to figure on loosing the front trunk space is not so much the size of the rad setup, it has more to do with the PPV (positive preasure ventilation) of the waste heat from the rad out of the front trunk. The air is pressurized on the intake side, do to it being forced in and thru the rad by the forward movement of the car. You can duplicate the PPV by instaling fans either to draw air thru the rad or push it thru when the car is at idle.

The size of the inlet hole in the front depends on what type of bumper you have and how creative you are in manufacturing the the hole and screen cover. (Stock bumper, 916, ect)

The exit hole area should be larger than the inlet hole area to allow the waste heat to escape (PPV). To do this, most exit holes I have seen are thru the wheel wells as these are negative preasure areas. Think of the air passing over, under and around your car. Unless you have a ground hugging front valance, you get the same amount of air under your car as over it. Making the wheel wells the logical choice for the escape ventilation.

Now because of this you loose the space in the front trunk because you don't want to block the air flow with anything in the the trunk and anything you would put in the front trunk will get road dust or water on it when you drive the car.

Just my $0.02 from what I have seen/read and am planning.

Or I could be full of sh*t

This is what it looks like in the front trunk. There is really not any room left for much of anything. My rear trunk is crowded with ignition components, but you still have some room left back there.
CCLIN914V8

Craig,

Did you put the holes in the wheel well? I don't remember them on my car - although I haven't looked recently. Is that to vent the heat out?

Here is the front of my car:



Think the opening is too small for a radiator? Currently an oil cooler is mounted in the front of the car and takes up the entire hole. It would be nice if I could keep the oil cooler there but I would think there would be minimal airflow for the radiator if I did.

I'm also looking into venting the hood - perhaps something similar to this:



If anyone has good pictures of this style vent on a 914 please post them. I am considering a radiator in the front and the oil cooler in the space behind the radiator and in front of the vent in the hood. On my car I will need a radiator, oil cooler and intercooler. The intercooler will have to be mounted in the rear - either in the trunk or above the engine - to keep turbo lag to a minimum. I might consider dual oil coolers in the rear if I can't keep the one I have up front. I plan on buying the Renegade radiator set up if it will work. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated.

Run your water lines using these lines.Steve

Exit Hole in trunk floor.

The wheel well holes were there when I purchased the car. I have seen other 914 V8s with a much larger area removed. I have asked alot of questions of John Thomas and he has been very forth coming with alot of great pics and explantions on how he did his conversion and that it has worked well for him.
Bob Bischoff also shared a great deal of his knowledge with me and I want to thank him and John both very much.
The front scoop looks smaller than what is called for and I honestly think that a oil cooler in front of your radiator in front would be to much restriction, moving the oil cooler to another location is best.
One place you may want to try for a radiator in www.rondavisracing.com they make the RH setup.
Oh the scoop out the top of the front hood may not be needed if you get the wheel well holes large enough. I think this may have been discussed in the past, you may want to do a search.
CCLINV8HEAVEN

Steve,

Looks good but what are they? Do you have some more info like material and price?

Upper Ducting Cover

Lower ducting

Diffrent car

Raditators should be www.rondavisradiators.com.
CCLINV8HEAVEN

Front veiw

V-8 914. The tubing is 3/4 pipe fittings and comes in 3 -4 -5 ft lenghts. Steve

The GT setup Steve is showing wont cool a V8 (cools oil great) The GT shroud only allows a 6 inch tall oil cooler and a max of 4 inches deep (unless you dont mind the cooler being within one inch of the back side of the front bumper.

The Renegade setup is 1000$ plus 120$ for the water lines. The kit is complete with fans/relays/aluminum shroud. I just installed one a few weeks back in a conversion car running the exact same setup as Craig (it didnt work well). It now cools awesome (which I knew it would).


B

I just thought of something. Has anyone ever heard of a dual chamber radiator? By this I mean one big radiator with two separate chambers. I'm thinking it would make for easier installation if you could make one chamber 80% for water and the other chamber (20%) for oil. Think of it as putting a long narrow radiator underneath the water radiator or putting two radiators side by side (one being tall and narrow and the other being almost square.) Anyone else thought of this? Feedback is appreciated.

Thanks for the input. I still think renegade is big time overkill, I would really like to go with something that looks like the orange & black car.

I will be putting a fan or fans on the radiator, do you think I could pull enough air though a hole that size? Keep in mind I am only cooling 2 liters not 5 liters. For what its worth I will also be running an already installed oil cooler.

I really think the idea of having 2 radiators in the side panels, with Side scoops, like a mustang would be the way to go.

If you had flares you could really tie the scoop into the flare. You could even make more room that way, have the pused out more towards the read of the car.



I don't know the math though to check the feasability.

Ok steve, Are you going to reveal a source or just tease us with that....

Looks like the 3/4 " ID of those lines would be way to small for the water hoses. The return(low pressure) should be atleast a 1 1/4 " ID.

One of the best 914 conversion cars that I've seen was done by a shop that does development work for GM. This had a Mazda rotary engine. The rotary had enough room in the engine bay to mount a custom radiator and fan unit next to the engine.

Bob

I have considered putting two radiators in the rear sides of the car. I have some experience with that area.

Two things I don't like about that area, there was barely enough room for my oil cooler and I don't think you can get as much air flow, you have a lot more air pressure to work with in the front of the car.

A 4ft lenght of the Finned tubing has over 720 inches of cooling surface,two of the have nearly 1500 square inches this allows you to use a much smaller radiator.You can cool that 2.0 ford witha small radiator and those lines. Steve

seems more like 113 square inches of water surface in contact with pipe if that is 3/4 inch ID if my math is right.



Rich, since it's steve from Otto's Garage i'm guessing they sell these parts.

But the Surface area of the finning which is what radiates the heat away , thats what I was reffering to.Why you dont need 1.25 hose is that on a V-8 when running the off block pump is a Pressure pump which is putting out aboiut 10psi . Steve

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/onli...&ProductID=2700

Renegade is overkill for 175 hp.
Mine is out of a v6 Corrado but a mid 90's Golf/Jetta has better outlets and is 2" taller. If I had known that at the time I would have used it instead.
2 11" Spal fans fit nicely with shrouding. Hole in the floor works fine and is less structural. I've seen cracks at the tops of the wheel wells on a hard driven, stiff suspension, sticky tire car.
Run the hose size used by the engine and straight under the car. FYI, the VW rad outlets are 1.5".
You'll want some damn good insulation for your new trunk floor, you will have 180+ degrees blowing on it.

I don't remember if I took pics of my install the last time I had the bumper off or not, I know I was under time constraints when I built it.

Feel free to ask me more.

Chris
Nissan 6 conversion

Here you go Grasshopper.


B

Chis I like the way you routed your hoses I am planning to do something similar to that.

You wouldn't have some ballpark dimensions on that jetta radiator would you?

Here is the Renegade setup I installed a few weeks back.

The trunk needed to be painted/redone but the customer wasnt ready to pop for this.


B

And the other side..

You know what.. I have a Ron Davis radiatator I can sell you. I think it is for a 928 Porsche.

hum.. something to think about.


B

B, Is the 928 radiator you have compatable for the 914 front installation? Pics.?? Price$$??
CCLINLO

Also have you made any templates of the shroud from the front trunk edge to the back part of the radiator.
Thanks
CCLINLO

I think it may be too tall for the 914 trunk. It would have to be laid down.

I'll shoot pics tomorrow and post the measurements.

Somebody remind me... LOL


B