I recently aquired a '73 with a rebuilt but never run 2.0. It has the usual (fixable) rust issues, but otherwise is complete and in fairly good shape. I'm building the car mainly for "fun", but ultimately would like to make a buck or two on it.

OK, here's the situation...
My original intention was to do a V8 conversion on it with a Rover 3.5 V8. I've always thought this was a perfect match for the car, compact, all-aluminum, lightweight, easy 200hp, avaialble parts... And to top it off, resale values for well done V8's look to be very good. On the down side, it ain't very original. Btw, I've got the 3.5 short block sitting here.

On the other hand, I like the 2.0 in that it keeps more of the originality of the car for the purist. and, with the rising values of these cars and their declining numbers, I believe originality will become more of a factor in resale value. I would plan on doing some engine work to bring it into the 120HP range just for kicks.

What to do? What to do?

First of all, do what you want to do with your lifestyle and don't try to do "what is right" in the eyes of other. That being said, if the car is original, with the the appearance package, including an originally installed 2ltr (not updated), I would lean towards keeping it original. Conversion car expenses have a way of creeping up there, and their resale although it may look good for a well sorted 914, that is from the buyer's perspective. The owner is saying, "Oh, Sh..." I can't believe I'm only getting 30 cents on the dollar back, not including my time.

Finally, you might as well right now get rid of your 'ultimate' goal of "making a buck or two"...just resign yourself that you will spend some $, enjoy your car and not look at it from a investment perspective. You will be a lot happier in the long run.

it is not about what you should do - it is about what you want.

there is little profit margin in the resale of a restored 914

me - i would have the rust fixed - and drop a 350 sbc in that bitch using all renegade hybrids conversion parts.

lets see some pics if the rust

jim

well if you can afford it......

Click to view attachment

If you want some cheap thrills, go with the v8. If I had to do it all over again, I would build the exact same car.

Mark

I agree on the "forget the resale" issue. Chances are either way you go you'll have more in it...... Here's the thing. These cars are a hoot to drive! Period. If the 2.0 is ready to go and you can drive it sooner start there. You can be driving it while you're installing the radiator and the work necessary for the cooling. When you get the v8 done and ready to go in, it can be swapped in a weekend.

Balance won't be and issue for changing anything with the Rover and I don't think it will change the weight much either. In fact, even with the SBC, balance is right on at about 49/51 and increases the total weight by about 250 lbs. and that's with iron heads. If you're worried about meat on the road for the 8, 205/60 x 15 will fit nicely on the Fuch 5.5x15 and there are plenty of threads here that will show how to go to 5 bolts for bigger wheels and breaks if you like and that doesn't have to be expensive....

Good luck,

For me that decision is always based on what you want from the car. These cars are already 30 years old, so they're hobby cars, not daily drivers. I like to drive mine, so modifications to make it faster and funner make sense, while at the far other end of the scale there are people who enjoy being in the garage polishing and keeping the mileage down. Theirs will always be worth more at resale than mine, but mine will be more fun the whole time that I own it.

If yours has rust issues it's already not a Barrett Jackson car, so it seems like a natural candidate for the "more fun" end of the scale. I agree that since the 2.0 motor is new I think I'd be inclined to just use that motor, fix the rest, then drive it for a while. A year from now you'll know your car better and can decide whether you want to do the Rover motor.

I like the aluminum V8 idea, but don't think you'll get more at resale. Do it for the fun of it, if that's what you want. Then if you can profit, great, but don't count on it. One thought that might help is that people can argue about anything, but most everyone will agree that more horsepower is more fun!

Does the pot need stirring?
OK
If (perish the thought) I was to consider putting a V8 in a 914, the Buick/Rover would be the lump. The SBC is a hell of a motor...in a chebbie (or early Ford ).
If some one gave me one, I'd part it out. A 600lb lump behind your head in a 914 screws up a pretty good little car.

seems like we have a concensus - small block chevy - is the way to go : ))

note - that stock trans will work - it will wind high rpms on the highway - at 65mph, around 3000 or so depending on your tire size. but you will soon accept this as perfectly normal : ))

as always - rebuild suspension and brakes first.

the nice thing about a porsche 6 is you can run 14" wheels : ))

Hey Jim how many rpm can your 8 handle ?

Ever driven one, JP?

And I'm sitting here trying, but can't for the life of me imagine how a nice little light and tight 250 horsepower aluminum V8 would screw up a tired, wheezing 1.7 liter car.

Can't says's I have, but I've seen em' run at AX......& get smoked by a wheezing 1.7L (actually, the 1.7L runs pretty good)......all 80hp worth.

If you're a cruiser they're not a horrible thing but an early Ford is better.

wow, sorry for the hijack... now i want a v-8... awsome job mark

Exsqueeze me???

My 74 2.0L 914 is my daily driver. Over the past two years I average about 15,000 miles a year in it. That includes commuting to work and back, and weekend trips and averaging almost 30MPG.

These are really great little cars, so make it what you want it to be. If that means using it as a DD, fine.

Eric Read

2008 the year to V8
I have had 5 v8 914s. All of them were fun and fast cars. The first one was for autocross, not a good idea, SBC 307.
Number 2 was SBC 350, Number 3 a project 350, Number 4 a really awesome 417 HP 350 built 76 with Brembo front brakes, now belongs to Tony Imberato in Sequim Wa. and then the one I wish I didn't sell was JLO. Built 350, by Bill Wild at Renegade Hybrids. HUGE front and rear flares.
Yep why settle for less when you acn have a V8
CCLINV84MR

The thing on the SBC is you can go from mild to wild. The 305 in the car I got from Army Dude is mild at around 225hp so I am thinking what I want to do to build the engine. The 930 box can handle 650 HP but the tires will just spin even with LSD. There is very trick stuff for these engines. Done right it will spin up to 7,000 RPM. It is not much for me to pull 400HP out of this engine with very reliable power with not that much money spent compared to parts for my 2.5 - 6 Porsche.

You can get a rebuilt 350 HP SMC with 3 year unlimited mileage warranty on Ebay with free shipping for $2,900.

A 914 with a SBC is a true hot rod with great handling. Add some bigger breaks and sway bar up front and you are good to go.

Is it great to have one in the garage plus a 914-6 plus a 914-4.

Save your money as you are fixing your car and the perfect 8 will come along that someone needs to sell that is almost done or is a situation car.

Bob

You can do it on the cheap, this is what my car looked like at the $4400.00 mark, then I kept on spending...
That is car, paint, engine, interior, everything.





It was really fun for the money. I just kept upgrading. I had the trans re0geared, 5-lug, wheels, etc. The biggest expense ($3600.00) was having the 302 DZ built. The 302 is perfect for the car, revs high, low torque, kind of like a Porsche.

Mark

OK, making a buck or two was maybe a fantasy, just to rationalize the anticipated expense. So now I'm just down to the core issues of what'll give me the most bang for the buck.

That's got to be the V8. And sorry guys, it's going to be the Rover 3.5. My wife will be driving this and 200-225 is more than enough for her driving style. I built a Cobra replica with 440hp and if I need a kick in the a** I always know where I can go for it.

So stay tuned, I'll be posting before pics and progress pics shortly. Thanks guys.

Tom

I have a SBC and a 930 transmission, having said that to make a V8 car run nice it takes some money. I love my car, its an rush to drive but it took a lot of time to get it right.
I like the 215 V-8 concept sounds nice but is there enough R&D to make it work well. I know they came in GM cars, 1960 to 1963 and did come turbo charged in the F-85.
I say go for it do what you want , its nice if you have some experience in the auto area as well.
Enjoy your build and take your time....

actually, a slightly beefed up type 4 is all the car needs. its such a light car, so well balanced anyways, that even the 2.0 is fine.

and yes, the type 4 can be a great dd. Mine was for 2 years, till I got the Acura. Before that, my mom used it as a dd for quite a number of years, since 73 til mid 80's.

though, and 8 would be cool, since you have it. I am more of a purist though, its only original once. A 911 six or a subie also can make some good conversions. But since you have the 8, that should be good.

One thing I always read about after someone does a V8 conversion is they have overheating issues. I think it comes down to one thing, use a Renegade Hybrid radiator package. End of problem.
Good luck it will be a blast when you are done.
CCLINKEEPCOOL

I love the buick 215! I am partial though as that is what I have in my car. It sits at a robust 2190lbs fairly stock. 5-lug conversion, v8 & sideshift tranny swap aside. Still sitting right close to stock weight. I would guess mine is in the 220hp range. Car flat out flies while having very usable power. I rarely break the wheels loose. Well unless I'm trying too anyway. To practical to waste my tires & annoy people.

The range rover 215 is the same motor with some improvements I think. I would look into the water pump. The stock mechanical pump sticks out alot. I am going to go to a remote electric pump setup. That will cure my woes of losing most the firewall. I would definately recommend Renegades trannymount adapters. It moves the tranny back 1 1/2" while also dropping the rear 3/4". My tranny sits in the stock location & my engine comes into the cab right now. My plans are to add the tranny adapters, The remote electric water pump & get my firewall back in place. Supposed to be a winter project but looking more like spring now.

Any info I can help with on the 215 let me know. There are a few floating here on the world. All the v8 guys in general are very helpful. As are all 914 owners for the most part

Jamie, Didn't you add the Renegade radiator also?
CCLINH20

It always comes down to how the cars are set up... and driven... doesn't it JP? So how do you think that same wheezing 1.7 would do on a high speed course against a properly set up aluminum Buick/Rover V8 that, coincidentally, weighed pretty much the same as the 1.7?




No offense intended Eric, that's speaking generally and is not BS. Of course it's possible. Anything is possible, but no 30 year old car is as dependable as newer one. My kids drive VW's from the fifties as dailies. They're young, and would be happy to tell you stories about changing clutch cables on the side of the road (big KEP clutches), cleaning idle jets, finding electrical gremlins in the dark, things like that. For me that's not practical, so I drive something more modern for my daily. Like most of the other folks here. What you're doing is the exception, not the rule, and will become more and more unusual as years go by.

Thanks for the offer jrust and be assured, I'll be tapping you and the rest of the V8 guys for details in the coming months. You and boxstr both mentioned cooling issues and that is one of my main concerns. Nothing ruins a ride quicker than having to keep an eye on the temp guage constantly.

In fact, today I'm committing myself to the V8 conversion by pulling the heating ducts out of the longitudinals before welding them up. First question - hard lines or hoses to the radiator? Thought I was going to start my build thread with some pics last night but found out I need a new card reader to fit my camera's card. So, stay tuned, I'll try again tonight.

Onward.

Tom

While your in there run your cooling lines through the longs.

[quote name='DBCooper' date='Dec 28 2008, 04:06 AM' post='1114681']
[quote name='J P Stein' post='1114507' date='Dec 27 2008, 11:02 AM']
Can't says's I have, but I've seen em' run at AX......& get smoked by a wheezing 1.7L (actually, the 1.7L runs pretty good)......all 80hp worth.
[/quote]

It always comes down to how the cars are set up... and driven... doesn't it JP? So how do you think that same wheezing 1.7 would do on a high speed course against a properly set up aluminum Buick/Rover V8 that, coincidentally, weighed pretty much the same as the 1.7?
[quote]

As I wrote above (you do read, eh), my problem with the V8 was not with the Rover but the SBC.....and it is with its weight and location.

it sure would be great if someone would build a street legal SBC conversion that could beat out 1.7/1.8/2.0's in AX's from time to time. gear ratio's and sticky hoosiers, along with proper suspension set up - should be able to yeild a faster car thru the cones??

Unless you really do a lot of research and source some very good parts, go with a proven system like "Renedgades" otherwise you will be doing this all too often...
(sorry Jamie...your famous!)

MikeD (IIRC) has a E Mod 914 SBC that looks like it should be quick. He did the work required. Last I heard he was feeling kinda down on it. There are any number to problems to overcome. Classing in SCCA, no class (NPI) in PCA.
For fun AXing, sure, no reason. You put enuff tiar on a brick and it will corner.

From what I've seen, very few guys will put on the tire, suspension, & brakes that
such a beastie needs.

You won't be sorry for going V8, it all about fun to drive.... these cars are fun, and anyone you talk to will probably agree, more cylinders = more fun, period.
So, Just a note regarding the autocross comments earlier. The top autocross car when I built my v8 was a 2ltr special edition that cleaned everyone clock, including mine. Auto cross is fun, but he doesn't drive his car on the street. If sliding around parking lots and never hitting 4th gear, rarely 3rd is how you want to enjoy your car that's great. It is a fun way to enjoy a day with other gearheads, the 8 just won't be as competitive, especially since you will end up in a class like E Modified. But it's still tons of fun.
As far as veryday driveablility, the 8 has it hands down. They're easier to work on too, ever try to adjust the valves on a 4? I've had 5 teeners and the one I've kept is the one I converted to SBC 23 years ago. Go for it!
One suggestion, Renegade moves the tranny back slightly and relocates the water pump. I'd suggest not cutting the firewall! That structure is there for your protection. Moving the trans back just an inch and a half won't screw up the CVs or cause any problem with geometry.
Good luck, and have fun.

Yes I did add Renegades radiator. That is a no brainer too. It is proven & while not cheap is worth every penny

Also the other benifit to adding the Electric remote water pump. Well besides the space issue. It takes one thing off the belt which is supposed to add 10-15ponies. I know my engine will fit behind the firewall then. I will still have a small access panel there as the distributor sits up front too. Be hard to get at without an access panel. Doable but I don't mind a 1ft access panel. Most sbc conversions have to cut a small area out of the rear trunk anyway. With the 215 you don't have to do that.

I would agree with Bruce. Make every effort to get the motor back as far as you can. Cutting the firewall would be the last thing I would want to do. A small access hole like you might have with a six cylinder is very acceptable.

As far as radiator cooling lines. The ones I have owned have all been the Gate's Green stripe hoses under the car. It runs along the bottom of the car and is held in place with large stainless U clamps. The lines are up high enough that you wont harm them, plus they are very thick. And if you need to access them they are right there, not hidden away inside the longs, which trust me will be a pain in the ass to get to.


Here is a great thread that you might want to take a look at. It will give you some idea as to what is involved in a V8 conversion.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...impson&st=0

CCLINH20914

If you're gonna do an engine conversion, you might as well go balls out!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Ferrari-550...sQ5fAccessories

Mark D.
P.S. I was lookin for an F430 engine, but couldn't find one.... it's a V8!

I have hit all sorts of stuff in traffic on the freeway. You can't go around it and you can't slam on the brakes. You look under a lot of 914's that have not replaced the floor pans and they are dented up. My 74 looks like an IED went off under it. If SS tubes were installed in the longs it would be one less thing to worry about. There are members here that have done it just this way.

Of course I read, JP. Maybe not that good, but my question wasn't about the Chevy, it was about the Rover. In fact you just quoted me, right there, but still didn't answer the question. Do you think a well set up aluminum V8 is going to be slower than that wheezing 1.7 on a long fast course?

I always thought the long's were made to order for the cooling lines to keep them out of harms way. I'd like to use either aluminum or SS tubing as long as I can locate the clamps where I can get at them, but then again if I use straight hose - no clamps to worry about. Hmmmm.

Boxstr, thanks for the link - I've got it bookmarked.

Hope to have some pics up tonight to start my build thread.

Tom

Of course not. Now we're 1 & 1, happy?

Overjoyed, big guy. Didn't matter a bit until you asked if I could read.