I want to take the best photos I can of the IMSA 914 restoration process. I am
working inside a two car garage. I don't like using a flash because it over lights
the near parts and causes dark shadows around stuff. What kind of lighting,
etc. would be best. I also want to do good closeups. I am not happy with the
pictures I have gotten so far. I may even get a background to avoid exposing
the unholy mess that is my garage.

I have a fuji 6m pixel digital camera with a macro.

I really like McMarks parts studio he posted lately and will try to set one up.

I know I could go to some photography site, but then I could not enjoy you
all's insightful and sarcastic comments.

Post your favorite pictures and how you took them.



John

Icandescent lighting works well, light from eather side and a halo light. Oh and don't let Andy take the pic.

Why not try some test photos and post them for feedback?

I am working today or I would do that right now.

Seems like I get too many shadows with the flash and too blurry without it.

John

Get a tripod and turn on as many lights in the garage as you can get.

Turn the PAS Fuji camera's flash off and let it figure out the long exposure time (thus the tripod). Look at what is reflecting into the camera and adjust as needed.

Or, if you want to go manual control on the camera (I am not familiar with Fuji PAS cameras), you can probably set the exposure/shutter speed and keep adjusting until it looks like you want it.

Otherwise, get 2 umbrella strobes or soft boxes and one halo light and do it right!

Basic lighting

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Try to be aware of background when you take the shot. Often, I will look back at what I thought would be a "great pic" and see the porta-potty behind the car or the glaring reflection of something in the back, etc.

You are going to want to fill the shop with many neon lights from all angles any way for best visability so not using flash should be perfect, here are some pictures from my work taken with a very crappy camera






Just image with something better than a 100 dollar camera 6 years ago

One you fill your space with good light great pictures should come naturally, these are some fancy color spectrum bulbs, if you ask im sure I could find out

Thanks for the tips.

I am thinking of getting some kind of neutral background, like a sheet of cloth.

What do people use for this? Can I just get some cheap sheets? What color looks good?

What is a halo light?

Can I make some lights using halogens, incadescents, compact flourescents and some painted sheet metal reflectors?

I will get a tripod and use a timer release and see what happens.

Those are some nice pictures.

Do you mean flourescent tube lights? Like full spectrum tubes?

Start with a real camera. A POS (point and shot) will not give you what your looking for.

A POS will do fine for what you are doing, so long as you can disable the flash and control the aperature (F stop).

This was taken with a POS on a tripod using the existing incandesant light that was in my garage at the time (shitty). It was taken the night I brought the car home, and the day before I started taking it apart.


If you want to highlight things, a shop light on a stand will work great.

Don't worry about complex lighting. Keep it overhead, remember to use a tripod, and control your depth of field (aperature / Fstop).

Technique is worth way more then your equipment.
Zach

If you want really good pictures, you need good equipment & use a tri-pod. I also believe the most important thing is proper light. The best time for outdoor shots is early in the morning and late evenings when the sun is not bright. I also agree with others use interior lighting without your flash for excellent details.

I have a Nikon D-50 and just starting to grow into the camera's ability. I recently took some pictures of Gary Stellmach's 914-6 (see photo's) during an overcast day & they came out fairly well. I also wasted a photo a few years ago on my 914-4 during a bright sunny day (see photo). Notice the washed out color on the hood. I should have used a filter to capture the cars yellow's or should have taken it during the early morning or late evening. I learned a lot some time ago when I took pictures of my car for EXCELLENCE. Notice how all the photo's always show the front of the car facing into the center of the magazine. I think it's a trick so your eye flows into the magazine. Study EXCELLENCE magazine photo's for tips. I guess that's why Pete gets the big bucks.

Photography is really an art that requires trial & error for good results.

Tom
BTW (secrete): I was told Gary's 914-6 is going up for sale this spring??

I am using a Fuji Finepix S5000. It was a middle of the road SLR digital at the
time I got it. I can turn off the flash and control the exposure. I'll try it with
a tripod, a shutter timer, and more overhead lights.

Anyone ever use a fabric background? I don't want the backgrounds to be
cluttered with tons of garage clutter.

John

Hey thanks Tom, I must have been writing my reply at the same time as you.

I'll try to get some outdoor shots before I tear the car apart.

I will study Excellence and see if I can figure out their tricks.

John

Hi John,

Thanks for the reply. I use a soft cloth backdrop with a non glare surface to highlight the featured part (see photo). If you have a photo program on your computer it's a big help to cut out all the bad stuff. I am looking forward to your future posts.

Tom

The S5000 is a very nice camera, but it's not an SLR. For that camera, I'd agree that your best results would be to use a tripod and timer. The timer will give the camera a chance to settle down after you trip the shutter.

"Hot Lights" (lights that are always on) make it easier to visualize the results. You can use whatever lighting works for you, Halogen, Incandescent, Fluorescent, but you need to pay attention to white balance. Don't mix lighting types. Halogens are cheap and bright, and probably your best best. Turn off your overhead lighting when you shoot, or the background that is not lit by the halogens will have a putrid green cast. If your ceiling is low enough and light enough, you can get great lighting by bouncing off the ceiling.

For a background, you can get seamless paper, which is cheap, but obviously not very durable in a garage environment. Canvas or Muslin cloth would be more durable. You'll need a honkin' huge backdrop if you intend to shoot the whole car. If your goal is to publish these photos in a magazine article, then the backdrop idea might be a little hokey... honestly, who has a backdrop in the garage? Instead, just pay attention to what's in the photo other than the subject.

Click to view attachment

Nice thing about digital is that once you have the equipment, it's CHEAP. Experiment. Take lots of pics. Post some here for critique.

If you want to go to a photo site, here's the best:

www.dpreview.com

Nice teakettle, Todd! That picture is FUNNY!

John - You're going to need a tripod for sure. All my bug shots were SERIOUSLY long exposure (4-5 seconds).

Stick with ONE kind of light (halogen or fluorescent) and remember that the more light you add to the shot the less exposure time you'll need. So if your camera isn't good in low light, you're gonna need a LOT of lights.

Watch out for reflections in the car's paint (as Todd so eloquently demonstrated with his teakettle). Even if you have a backdrop, the 'ugly' garage may be clearly evident in the reflections on the car. I've found that if you just clean up, and organize everything it looks really nice. Backgrounds are sterile and put more emphasis on the subject (car). If you have more 'character' in your background then the car doesn't need to be quite as interesting (lighting).

If you really want to get into it, get a DSLR. My Nikon D40 has everything I need. The 18-55mm lens that comes in most kits is really capable and really wide (18mm) which is NECESSARY for shooting in a confined space. For $400 or so, it's a great setup. But there is quite a bit of learning.

Feel free to call sometime if you want me to talk your ear off about it.

[quote name='McMark' date='Dec 31 2008, 11:56 AM' post='1116002']
Nice teakettle, Todd! That picture is FUNNY!



I blew up the photo & it looks like a bare plucked chicken or Todd in the b uff.

T

Uh, just to clarify... it's not MY teakettle. It's an infamous eBay photo...

FourBlades:
Just wanted to add that it seems like the IMSA car went to a good guy, can't wait to see the pictures!

Wow, lots of good info...I knew the world would come through. Still like to see
some of your all's best photos and how you did them.

I can't wait to leave work and try some of these ideas...I guess there is some kind
of party I'm supposed to go to tonight, can't be as fun as playing with my car.

I was thinking bacground because my garage is a freaking nightmare. I spend
every minute on working on my car and zero minutes on cleaning up. I guess
I need to figure something out. Maybe a huge mural of the Nurburgring from
the 1950s

Maybe the most straightforward way to do lights is to put up a buncha 8 foot
flourescents and use full spectrum bulbs in them. Then they will always be
there when needed. I could get some powerful compact flourescents to use
for filling in when needed.

Screw working, I'm going home now...

John

Really nice looking 914 Zach, silver looks good on the teener. Mike

OK, so here is why I need a backdrop:

Click to view attachment

I took these before trying any of your hints.

I'd like to get better pictures than this of the project, plus I know the World
members tendency to scrutinize and psychoanalyze anything in the backgrounds
of posted pictures.

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Funky aerodynamic mirror, does anyone recognize it??? This picture is really
blurry and the interior of the car is totally dark. You can see a seat belt buckle
that was used to hold the window net. I could not get a good picture of it anyhow.

Click to view attachment

Class indicator light for endurance racing??? Picture looks too dark.
Notice the fiberglass top. It looks like two layers of 6 ounce cloth that
was molded on top of a real targa top.

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Door in the fiberglass hood to allow adding more oil. Under this is a
custom made aluminum oil tank. Need to hire a professional hand model.
I doubt this hand has won any constests...

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More, better pictures coming when the real build thread starts...

John

If you want to do a backdrop, here is what I suggest. Get some bedsheets. Staple them to a long dowel (like the handle on a tree trimmer). Hang that from the ceiling. That way you can spool it down for pictures, and back up again for working.

Black is the "traditional" backdrop, and will add contrast if you are keeping the car silver or lighter. It will also show light colored dust that gets on the cloth. It absorbs light, which can be good or bad, depending.

White will get smudged quickly, but will reflect light. This can be good or bad, depending.

Grey may not be a good idea if you are keeping the car silver. But, it will not absorb as much light as black, and not reflect as much as white.

IMHO, though, seeing the natural shop environment adds legitimacy to the build pictures. Jsut make sure you sweep up and put away your tools before shooting. OR, install some shelf doors, and hide the clutter.

Zach

+1 what McMark said
Invest in good lights and you will be happy. All the same. I prefer cool white flourenscent tubes = cheap and full spectrum. Halogen are also cheap, the shop lights on tripods are awesome, and as a bonus they keep you warm when you are nearby, but they are a little off in color. Incandescent lights are VERY yellow and you should have a tungsten filter for best results.

Some white or light shade shower curtains could be suspended on a string to block the view of your stuff and easily moved to one side for photos or access to stuff.

Indirect light is the best, especially with reflective surfaces like painted metal and glass. Bounce the light off white surfaces or put them behind your pale curtains...anything to avoid major glare.

Flat mirrors can be used with great succes on car photos to show hard to see angles. Bouncing the light off the mirror is fun too.

Using 2 second auto timer on a tripod elimitates camera shake from pushing the button.

If you had an SLR, then filters really help. A circular polarizer can take away or add glare effects, and others can correct bad light.

Finally, get that cable that connects your camera directly to the TV. It blows up the photo huge and you can see all the details, way better than on the computer (especieall if you have a good TV). If you do this right away while the session is fresh, you will learn quickly! Try to set up your "studio" consistently so you can focus on composition and not lighting, background etc when you grab the camera.

Have fun with that awesome project

I tend to just point and shoot with the 914, but spend more time with nature. I took this nice photo in Hawaii last month using an underwater housing made for my Coolpix S210.

Pretty sure the mirror is a Talbot. I don't recall the name fot it though. I have aTalbot page somewhere in my collection of websites

Number 1 hint on taking good car photos:

Click to view attachment

Don't forget to inlcude the car...




Eric Read

Can't find my page but I did find these on E-bay. Kooks like a weener to me

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/HELLA-TALBO...sspagenameZWDVW

John, Paul (URY) was right about the RacingPedia Website being retired, so make some copies of the racing results I gave you.

Happy New Year,
T.C.

John if you compare the Roof Light on your car to the one on Martin Bakers, they are either the same or very close.

T.C.

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Personally I appreciate the garage backdrop as much as the intended content in progress pictures, I like to pick out tools, progress around the progress, and limitations of space and what not as a crucial part of the progress you are showing. Just my opinion, save the background importance for when they are photographing for excellence mag, and keep the realism just for your memory's if nothing else. And yes my shop has full spectrum florescent(ballasts and all) from all angles. I could show you how great all my metal work work in the engine bay looked under them but those cars were just so nice haha

If you can get the car a little farther away from the walls and get some focused lights that will drop off quickly, you could get the car lit well and the background to fade away. Something like this:

Another example. This is in a kitchen, but you can't see the cabinets because the light drops off so quickly.

I know what you are saying, but that was shot with strobes, and LOTS of them

Beautiful shot, tho... did you make it?

Neither of the shots above are mine. The Mini only has three lights. That effect could be produced without much expense, IMHO.

I'm getting two Nikon SB-600 flashes in the mail next week and I'm really looking forward to playing around with the lights. Not bad for $300, (actually I got them for free with my credit card points).

If anyone isn't familiar, there is a TON of great info on the Strobist website.

There is a softbox above the car, seen in the reflection in the fender.
There is a light behind and to the left.
There is a light in front and to the right.
There must be a strobe inside the car to light the seatbacks and headliner.

The exposure is dragged to let the sunset show... the giveaway that it was lit with strobes.

You're right though, it could be reproduced with some halogens and a trouble light inside the car. It's all about experimentation, and digital makes that cheap. It's a killer shot, and I'd be proud to call it mine.

You'll have fun with the SB600s. Nikon's CLS is pretty damn cool. I have 4 SB800s... well, 3 and one that is apparently dying. Now I am lusting for the SB900... and the D3X.

Awesome flashes.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=716745

I got a tripod and some 300 watt fluorescent lights and reflectors at Lowes. I got
some better closeup shots, but my overall shot still needs some work. It looked
fine standing there but now I can see the lighting is still not right. The worklight
I put inside the car looks all wrong. My other car is casting a shadow on the side
of the 914.

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Closeup of the broken driving light cover. Not too bad.

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Closeup of the fuel cell, oil tank, fuel pumps. Still a little blurry. Too many shadows.

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Closeup of the fuel cell plate. Needs a little buffing to restore the shine.

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Closeup of a fuel filter? found loose inside the fron trunk. This shot really
captures the crud, dirt and oil in a very realistic way that I like.

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Closeup of the dual fuel filters, pumps, and fuel pump relays.

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I'll try again when I get a chance. I can see you really need to look closely at
how each part of the shot is being lit up. Meanwhile, lets see some more of your
cool pictures....

John

Overall, they're not bad. The worklight is too bright, and it's a different color temperature from the other lights.... that's one problem with fluorescents... they can have different color temperatures depending on the phosphors. I would skip any interior lighting for what you are trying to do... It gave a cool effect in the Mini photo, but IMHO it's not necessary for yours.

Your white balance is a little off, but it's correctable. You could use a bit more light on the side of the car... either hang a white sheet, or put another light there.

Good job!

White balance correction:
Click to view attachment

I am dying to see the front calipers 908 ?

There are three camera positions I would recommend for a dramatic effect. I used these often when doing the local Porsche Club newsletter:

On the ground - Camera is literally on the ground facing up at the car.

In the air - Many times I would simply stand on the rear seats of my ML with the door open and shoot down at the subjects. I could use the car as a makeshift stand and position it wherever I wanted it. Have the subjects by their cars looking up or, just the cars themselves.

Angled - A slight angle on the "In the air" shot can make a nice effect but, this is good to slightly spice up a straight on shot.

I will try it again with all the same kind of bulb. I think the 300 watters I got are 2700K, which is pretty yellow. My camera is supposed to do automatic white
correction, but has no manual white correction settings. Its funny but I did not
notice how wrong the worklight looked while shooting, but I think now I know
more what to look for.

The front calipers were AWOL when TC found the car. I'd like a set of
917 front calipers if anyone has any they would like to donate.
It has M calipers on the rear.

I am going to push it out side and try some other angles next time I am home
during the day.

I want to get all the before photos done so I can start taking it apart and slowly
reviving it.

John

what model camera do you have?

is it here
http://www.steves-digicams.com/
or here
http://www.dpreview.com/

jim

It is a Fujifilm Finepix s5000. I bought it for the 16x optical zoom.

It has a ring for screwing on filters. Haven't tried that yet.

I think it is about 3 years old now.

One more for the road crew. Tip, don't include the light in the picture

Click to view attachment

John

i was hoping your camera had a hot shoe - because if it did, you could put a cheap flash on it to trugger a couple of cheap flashes with optical slaves. the problem is cheap optical slaves fire on the typical point and shot digicams first test flash and not the cameras main flash.

you might see if you could snag a canon g3 or g5 on ebay cheap?

you could put a piece of exposed film over the flash on a hot shoe camera to trigger slaved flashes.

i have a 3 cheap vivitar flashes and some slaves i can send you for the project but tis stuff won't work with a P&S built in flash : (

jim

The camera may have an adjustment for the slave ability. Look in the lighting menu to see if it does. If this is the case you can set up a whole studio type lighting with remote flashes. Nikon makes some very nice ones that I have. They are easy to use and light very well.

The human eye is very good at auto white balance

Your camera may have been fooled by the two different light sources. Try again without the work light and see what you get. It's not too far off.

OK, here is a really dumb question: why are flashes better than just having big
wattage lights that are always on? I can check if my camera can mount additional
flashes but I don't think so. I have a canon film camera (shudder) that does, but
man, film!

I need to dig up the manual for the fuji...

John