Could have posted this elsewhere I guess, but thought it might be better served here.

In 1974, I decided that it made good sense to annually removed the rocker covers to clean out the accumulated crap that absorbs moisture & causes rust. Did so fervently until 1990 (the last time they were removed until today).

My 914 has accumulated a total of less than 4k miles since 1990, being relegated to "queen" status.

So, today, being bored, I pulled them. Not an easy task for an old fart in a 44 degree garage!

Good thing my 914 hasn't seen water since 1974. Don't know where the crud came from, but if water had been added to the mix I'd have had a problem.

Be warned guys, this accumulation can cause MAJOR problems when left to stew. Couple of screws, couple of driven out rivtets & you can be faced with ugly stuff.
Pat

That's it Pat?

I still have to pull mine as I haven't done so, and to be honest I don't know if they've ever been off. How are you reattaching them, Tod's rivets?

Any pics of your concours clean longs?

Jon,

Yeppir - Tod's rivets! Bought all I could get in white.

I'll get some pics of the longs up soon.
Pat

Glad to see you working on it again Pat

The pig is back!

Yep, sometimes it takes a big kick in the ass - I can still do THAT to myself!

Have a potential buyer for the 73T, so it got the juices going again. But...it IS too fuching cold for my old joints, so don't expect any short term miracles.

Problem I have with the drivers' side cover is that there is a support pole in the way & the car is on stands. Got it off, but getting back on, with the pole in the way, won't be easy. Door is in the way.

Interesting thing is....one rocker (the pic) had all kinds of semi-metallic crap packed in it. Other side? Almost nothing! Wierd!

Still, feels good to do something!

Pat

The passenger side rocker always collects more crap than the driver side rocker. That's probably because the right side wheels are off in the gutter where all the road debris gets swept.

Excellent point!

100% & would presume they have the opposite problem in the UK.

Dave, is your avatar a 1975 Honda CB400F? If so, !

Good eye, Johny. (Although it's a '76, not a '75...) Another point of contention between me and the budgeting department...

, sorry Pat.
Dave- I used to own a 75. I still think it's the best "little" bike ever made. 408cc's of pure power & what a nimble ride!

OK, hijack over

Back to Rockers.....

The pic below shows the Passenger-side Jack Point, for which I need to pull off the rockers & replace the tubes & bases on both sides as I;m doing my other body & paint work for my 73 2L resto. I'm sure they're crudded up inside too, since they may never have been off - or at least the last possible time was my 5/80 resto/repaint.....maybe?

Ergo, I'm going to have to pull the rockers off, and being an early production `73 (9/72), it has the aluminum thresholds (I'll post that in a post to follow this one).

I've seen reference to "proper rivets" elsewhere on these forums, and my original/OEM rivets appear to be aluminum or silver metal of some sort, and possibly painted black.

So what are the proper rivets & where can I get some?

PASSENGER SIDE JACK POINT DAMAGED FROM USE

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HERE'S A DETAIL OF THE THRESHOLD WITH SCREW AT RIGHT & SIDE OF RIVET ON LEFT

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Okay.....now I'm going to add 2 possibly dumb questions/requests to my query above.

1st - since we should be taking these suckers off occasionally to inspect/clean-out, and pop rivets are not the proper fastener in such an application - is there another acceptable small bore sheet metal screw (such as the one on my pic above at the threshold interior - which could be used in place of the rivets without degrading the 914's value?

To clarify - I'm not asking about show car concours points getting "correct", since I'm not that anal & just want to restore my 73-2L in such a way that is is correct but servicable for my own use, and to maintain it at the high end of collector car value (i.e.: NOT a garage maven, but a clean & nice occasional driver).


2nd - I just crawled under to look it over & do you do to remove those rockers safely without doing more damage to anything else in the bodywork!?

Could somebody pleez post a step by step with proper tools needed list on "How To" - preferably with pix, or direct me to where it is already on the forums if I missed it????

I think I read that Pat drills his out or something - but before I start I want some direction on how to delicately & safely undertake this task?????

Ok, let's figure out what you want to do first.

Do you want to remove the rocker covers first, or are you more concerned with the rivets (yes, they are available here)?

Now, let's discuss my "drilling out" the rivets. This was before Tod914 saved me/us, by having the original style rivets remade. Yes, for a period of time I used metal rivets. They weren't correct & made rocker cover removal more difficult. Tod914 made that problem go away & I bought as many as he could supply for my year 914.

Removing the rocker covers is pretty starightforward, if you have plastic rivets in place. Same for you, since you have screws in place (don't recommend this practice, but it's your 914).

On each rocke cover, there is a rear and forward screw, with attached plasric bushing. There are two more screwd in the central part of the rocker. All of these are underneath. Remove them all & the panle will "float", yet not be ready to remove.

Next, you must remove the rivets (by punching them out with a punch) or, if you have replaced them with metal rivets, drilling them out with a micro bit (so as to not damage the holes). If you're using screws, simpley removed them. The rocker cover should now be easilly removed.

You'll probably get a lot of junk that falls out from behind - you know, the crud that holds moisture. Get rid of it. And, clean the whole rocker assembly of all crap and crud.

You already know that your jack posts are toast. Hell, they almost look pornographic! get new jack posts & spurs & have them welded in, while you're cleaning crud. Doesn't cost all that much.

After that, button it all up with new fasters & Tod's rivets. You're good to go for several years.

Pat

Thanks for the plug Pat, and still have plenty left. Glad you got your snout back in the feeder so to speak. Don't forget about zone 1.

Thanx Tod,

...so black, white or silver? ...are they plastic, or did I misunderstand? How many will I need for say 2 changes both sides (1 for back-up) & how much coin?

By any chance do you also have those little back "doughnut" spacers for the rockers'& valences" attachment screws' spacing? ...or know of a source?

Details pleeze!

All this talk about rivets reminds me of a conversation I've had with Tod about what are correct for my car. I've owned it since day one and the are aluminum not plastic. I've never remove the rockers completely, though I have removed the screws underneath and let all the debris fall out. Not as thorough as what Pat has done but every time I try to do the "right" thing I end up messing something else up or breaking a NLA part or two.

Dave

Dave my 74 also has the metal rivets in the rockers. The plastic seem to be for the threshold plates. I haven't searched for alum. replacement rivets. I suppose I could try to find the "correct" replacement if there was enough interest. Being Porsche superceeds parts from time to time, I doubt it should be an issue for an event being they are referencing the clear plastic ones now. Seems very few cars have the metal ones left in the rockers. Pat do you recall if yours were originally metal?
Tom, they are 20 cents per rivet. I have white and black available. Think Porsche wants like a $1.40 each, for their clear ones. I know George at AA has the hardware you are looking for in a kit, which includes those rubber bushings. If your 73 has the alum. threshold plates, you would want white rivets for the those. If black plastic, then black. Your call on the rockers. Do you remember what was originally on there? We haven't had anyone chime in as to what was on the earlier cars. It's unclear in the Johnson book.

Hey Tod, I still have the metal rivets in the rockers on the yellow car. Im doubting that they were ever removed just because of the amount of dry dirt thats back there. I was able to get most of it out without removing the rockers, I want to take them off to clean the rockers but I don't want to remove the original rivets!

Oh boy; rocker, kick plate, now I'm going to have to look at my car tomorrow. I think I'm confusing things. I know I have aluminum rivets holding the top of the rockers. The threshold plates, now I can't remember.........duh. Will have to get back to you on that one.

Dave

Seems to confirm from 74 & up. Now to see if we can find someone with an early car. Pat?? any other original owners?? Would love to get one of those metal rivets if someone has one removed. I'd be more than happy
to try to find a suitable replacement.
Dave your good. The kickplates/threshold plates on yours should have the black plastic rivets. I'm pretty certian when I looked at your car a few years back, that's what was on there.

Tod, when I remove mine ill try to be as careful as possible and save you a few. I'd love to get the same replacements. When we removed the rockers on my buddy Dan's car, one side was original with the metal rivets (the originals seem more rounded upwards, almost like they bubble upwards, then the generic replacements) and the other side had the generic rivets. His car is a '73 2.0, not sure how early '73 though.

I assume with the metal drive rivets, you would need a special tool to insert them? From what I have be seeing, it looks like the set pin gets pulled up and clipped at the head.

I do quite a bit of rivetting at work on bug convertible tops and such and for the metal rivets I use a rivet gun that pulls up on the set pin then snaps it off. Is that what you're talking about? How do your plastic rivets work? I haven't installed mine yet

Jonathan, exactly. Maybe you'll have a match in your shop? The plastic ones your just pushing the set pin down. I used a bottom of an ink pen. If you find a good match, I'm sure some members of the club would be happy to buy some from you. Me included.

Tod, I wish I had matching rivets in the shop but I don't. We use the generic style for the front trunk latch and for convertible top bases. Here's a car on ebay with what look like the original rivets:

Click to view attachment

Tod,

Hate to dissapoint you, but my 914 came with plastic from the factory. That's why I got 100 of yours!
Pat

Ah ha, so maybe the transition from plastic to metal started mid year 73 when they swapped over to plastic threshold? Lets see if we can find someone with a mid year 73 now.

my '73 2.0 has the aluminum threshold and carpet strips & it has metal rivets; the build date according to Sir Andy's chassis number method is Friday March 9 1973. I am pretty sure it was part way through '73 when they swapped to the black trim

To the best of my knowledge the thresholds have never been removed off this car; I bought it from the son of the original owner and it's as original throughout as any 914 I've ever seen - and I have had 914s in the family (6 in total) since 1974.

I'd be interested to find out if the metal rivets were in fact original; maybe the PO took them off for reasons beyond me . . .

Thanks, Michael. I know of 2 other 73 cars. I'll see if the owners can verify.

What's this Chassis # dating method???? Is that where you get Pat's "Norwegian Equipment" !?

Here's mine from the rear trunk in the pic below, which I think reads as #5543545 (??). Is that what you see too & how does that translate to the build date?? If so, then I don't see a dating scheme there!? I peeled my last 1980 repaint (Anthracite Grey) & sanded a bit to get this much readable, but am reluctant to take it to bare metal until I can get the rear damage repaired.

And before you ask......NO I can't get to the Karman plate, and the rear driver's side jamb label & front trunk plates were painted over by the last repaint. < Painter in Blue!

So unless someone knows how to carefully remove that paint from the labels & plates, I cannot read them anyway!

FYI - My early 73 2L is VIN 4732901954, Engine GA000424 & was told by PCNA that its build date was 9/72 (which is close to what I recall from when I could read the plates & labels)......but that was about 30 years ago!

Buuuut, I just got their alleged COA today, which left the build date as unknown (even tho someone read it to me on the phone! ), & claims it has black leatherette (not the TAN I can SEE it has ), and the "customer care" person who read me the build date also claimed that it was sold in CONN 10 months AFTER it was first registered in CA (9/73 vs 11/9/72 on my CA-DMV Reg Card) !!!!!!!! So, who knows about their build date!? ...and this was after NUMEROUS emails & telecons!!

With that kind of record keeping, it's really a wonder that Porsche can stay in business!! ....well at least their COA gal said that they'll redo & correct the COA for errors, lost, damaged, etc. AT NO CHARGE.

Click to view attachment

OKAY, this is a "Riveting" thread now!

Although... ...but I think I see how this Forum stuff & all works here! It's like asking a room full of attorneys for an opinion! ...ya know, ask 2 attorneys their opinion & ya get 20! ...but on the other hand......

And then you end up just going out to your own car with a drop light, tools, camera, etc. & figure it out for yourself, then come back & post it for everybody else to opine over! ......ooops - there's some of that legalese! ...argue & debate over - how's that!? (No - I'm not a lawyer, just had to deal with them!)

Well I saw this chain of lunacy just before dark, & went out & took pix of mine as posted below & in the following post. But first, let me fill in the ownership & history background.

I believe I'm the 2nd owner, bought the car 12/26/75 - 38+/- months after it was first sold according to Cal. DMV "first sold/reg." date of 11/9/72, and was supposedly built in 9/72 - which sounds correct, since it's an early VIN 4732901954 with an early 2.0 engine #GA000424. Sounds to me like the 424th 2L built & 1954th 73 914!?

The car was originally L80E Light Ivory (white), but changed to a Tan or Gold color by the time I bought it in 12/75. I had it repainted twice: #1 in 8/76 to the Metallic Copper out with 75/6 914s; then again #2 in 5/80 to the 911/930 Anthracite Grey Metallic (thought it would blend into the pavement better for stealth against the CHP - it helped!). I'm almost positive that the Rockers weren't off for either one of my repaints, since the paint on the detail pic below of the passenger side threshold, rivets & rocker shows over-spray!

Ergo - IF the rockers were removed during it's first three years before I bought it (11/72 - 12/75), then they were re-fastened with the correct period rivets available at that time. It was NOT a fresh paint job - perhaps at least 2 years or more old, & already showed some early signs of paint failure when I bought it, which was why I did the 8/76 repaint.

Ergo, I also suspect that it might have been a customer requested or dealer initiated repaint from white to the tan or gold, and suspect that they didn't remove the rockers/threshold & rivets either! When I take them off, I'll try to remember to post if it shows otherwise under there!

So what's on my 914 now is most probably still OE, and if not - then it's probably still period correct, since the Pix of the LE above & other post-73 914s ALL seem to use the Black plastic rivets at the threshold.

The pic on the following post shows 2 white plastic rivets at the threshold - 1 is partly hidden under the inner rubber door seal, with aluminum, tin, pot metal or another soft metal "silver" rivets in the top of the Rocker itself. I'm 90.7% sure that this is correct for my era 914......or at least that's my story & I'm stickin' to it!

PASS. THRESHOLD & ROCKER JOINT DETAIL SHOWING OVER PAINTS

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AND - TAH DAH!

PASS THRESHOLD & ROCKER WITH 3 RIVETS PER CONNECTOR POINT - 2 IN WHITE PLASTIC OR NYLON AT ALUMINUM THRESHOLD & 1 SILVER COLORED OR NATURAL ALUMINUM OR OTHER METAL POP-RIVET AT THE TOP OF THE ROCKER!

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SOME BLACK OR ANTHRACITE GREY PAINT IS CHIPPED OF THE METAL ONE IN A LITTLE SPOT, & I PEALED OFF THE OVER-SPRAY ANTHRACITE GREY OVER-SPRAY OFF THE EXPOSED PLASTIC/NYLON ONE AFTER I SAW THE WHITE ONE UP UNDER THE DOOR SEAL. I THINK I COUNTED 6 OR 7 CONNECTIONS POINTS ALONG THE RUN OF THE ROCKER & THRESHOLD WITH THIS SET-UP OF 3 RIVETS EACH

I'm with you for mine too - just clean out behind without de-riveting them! Don't know if that'll work for the resto & paint back to original though! We'll see......t.b.c.

Thanx Tod,

I'll have to do a count & add it up with my abacus, then calc. out the cost with my slide rule! Per the above post, mine are white plastic at the Threshold with a 1/2 round dome top & a little "tit" on the top - is that the same for yours? The rocker ones are metal per above also, so I'd need that type too!

Okay, I just checked out my car and I have aluminum rivets on the top of the rocker panel and black plastic on the edge of the black plastic threshold plate. Been that way since day one.

Thanks guys for taking the time to look to verify. I'll try to find a match for the metal rivets. I'll reconfirm when I hear from the two 73 owners. But, seems like early 73 foward used metal in the rockers from what we are seeing. When you guys pull some alluminum rivets, please mail me out a couple. I'll find a manufacturer to match them for us.
Lol Tom, thanks again. I have white if you need it. Guess we will all be running out buying rivet guns next. Except Pat.

Yo! Right!

Already have a rivet gun, but have no further need. Doubt that anyone else will.
Pat

I have metal rivets in my car, and I also just discovered that my rocker was rotted and someone broke it in half and bondo'd it together while on the car.


I broke it in half after unscrewing the bottom. I found my long is solid, but my jack thing has a nice 2" long horizontal rust hole -- it looks liek the exact build up in the first pic in this thread sat against that nad caused it!

Fortunately it is all very solid inside..... Can I get away with por15 under it, cut the rust out, leave it open, por-15 all over where surface is starting and go?

Passenger side is next, and I guess I have to drill the metal rivets out to get these rocker covers off that have never been off.

Better to find/fix now than later!


EDIT! Thec ar is a 2/75 build date, original california car with the rockers never removed.... super clean aside from this. There is no hell hole yet, just light surface and original metal.

Ok I can guarantee this is *the* first time ever the rockers have been unscrewed from the bottom of this car.........


The passenger side had a literal 5lbs of dirt, rocks and crap built up in there. Here is a picture of what came out just from under the rocker!

Replace it. Have a decent shop get rid of the old & weld in the new. I'm not saying this just fom a CW point of view.

Let's say you have a flat. Pull out the factory jack, hook it up and start to lift. As the car rises, you'll probably hear a crunching sound & as you watch, the jack will destroy your rocker cover as the rocke cover becomes the strongest jacking point.

Yes, it happened to me. Had to have the recievers replaced, as well as one rocker cover. Horrible things happen inside those covers, which is why I recommend removing them every 3-5 years for cleaning.

It's broken - fix it!
Pat

Impressive, isn't it? Just think about how many times that crud has been wet - for weeks!
Pat

You could plant a little garden in it!

...maybe your 914 was like Woody Allen's Dad in "Love & Death" & just wanted "...a little piece of land...." of it's own!???

I will try to get pictures tomorrow of the rockers.