And now, for our next contestant on the Question of Pain, with your host Swampyyyyy Bottoms!

Vacca Rabite, what sits about 735 feet above the sea, but is currently full of water?

Gee Swampy, lemme think about that one. Oh, I know. Is it "My House?"

Thats RIGHT! Jimbob, tell the poor sap what he's won!

Well Swampy, Mr Rabite has won a burst radiator. On the top floor of his house. Its been pumping out hot water at 20PSI for many hours now. He will get to enjoy water cascading beautifully out of all of his recessed light fixtures on the floor directly below his new burst radiator. He gets a new in house pool in his basement. He will also get to enjoy looking at new cracks in his ceiling and walls. All this sounds great, but there is more. Mr Rabite will get to spend the rest of the night pulling up sopping wet carpet and foam, while trying to stave off mold. And if you thought that was enough, just wait to hear what else he's won. Mr Rabite will get to replace his computer, DSLR, several lenses, his brand new HD video camera, and his cell phone. And last, but not least, he'll get to deal with insurance adjusters!

Jimbob, those are some great prizes. Vacca, what do you think of all the loot you get here tonight.

....... Um. This game show blows.

Whe-he-hell... Everybody come on back next week for another exciting edition of The Question of PAIN!

Brought to you by the Awesome Squad! Paid for by USAA.

Shouldn't that be:

"The Continuing Story Of Vacca Rabite's Pain..."

Episode Four:

The Hot Water Menace.....

Oh man, that sucks out loud! Do you need some help? Let me know

So this is the family emergency you told me about. Wow, that's rough. Well at least you are all safe. I hope you're able to get all the water out with minimal damage. Water problems always suck. Wish I could help

Mike, I'll be home tomorrow waiting for the insurace folks to show. Carpet and foam underlayment are all outside (along with some cushiony furniture that is too soaked to be worth saving).

Kids going to be at day care, and I can't do much more with the affected rooms until the adjuster comes over to check it out (probably should not have touched them, but no way am I leaving carpet to mold up with an infant in the house).

If you want to come over, you would be more then welcome, but I'd probably just try to get out out in the garage for some building time on the car.

Yes, family is fine. This is just one of those things that can be fixed with money. The only thing that will upset me in the long run is if the hard drive and back up drive with all my music and photos on them both go tits up. Everything else is replaceable in time.

Zach

major bummer if i was closer i would come and help

And so it begins. Insurance people are here and they are tearing out the ceilings and floors. We got a lot of work done last night, but now they are really taking the house apart.

Zach

Hope all goes well. Sounds like they are making a bit of a mess.

Sorry to here that zach

How can I help?

Outsch!

this situation should remind people that a hot water heater also has a finite life span and will also rust out (flooding the apartment below, ask me how my mother- in-law knows). i think i'll go home now and check my hot water radiators!

So sorry to hear about that! That truly is painful. If there is anything I can do to help out, let me know

Found a useful website...

link :

http://www.inspect-ny.com/sickhouse/floodresponse.htm

lots of good info and a checklist. stuff you already know, plus stuff you wouldnt think of.

Get a good contractor! After the drying the real work begins. Document everything you do yourself. You have a deductible. Your time can go twords that cost. Call me if you have questions. I have several of these claims now from the cold snap. sux ass!

Holy crap Zach ! Really sorry to hear this man I wish I was closer and could come over and help. I guess we should stop ribbing you about having the 914 ready for Hersjey huh Bet the cats were freaked the hell out by all that water though

Bawlz! That sucks...

That sucks man! Let me know if there is anything I can do to help!

Okay, no interwebs at home for the moment, so here is an update from work.

Disaster recovery took out the ceiling, then the ceiling above the ceiling (the stuff you can find in a old house will sometimes blow your mind - but the DAPO of my house framed in a new ceiling 8 inches below the original plaster ceiling). On the floor above, the took up the linoluem that was under the carpet (that I had removed) only to find more older linoleum glued directly to the original floor. With that, they cut sections of it out, but not all of it.

Industrial sized de-humidifiers we set up in my basement, de-ceilinged dining room, and the bedroom where the radiator popped. Also, 10 massive blowers are running. 2 in the top room, 4 in the dining room and 4 in the basement.

After talking to the USAA rep for about an hour today, here is how things should play (pay?) out. We owe our deductible ($1K, ouch) to the disaster recovery team.

I'll be shopping for a new cell phone today after work, and hopefully all I'll need to do to reconnect to the world is pop my SIMM chip in and go. Insurance will pay $300 of the new phone. So, no iPhone upgrade for Zach. Initial cost is out of pocket for this, but life is silly and requires me to have a cell phone.

For 3 of my lenses, USAA just wants a picture of them, and the cost to replace them and they say that they will cut a for replacement.

For the camera body (canon 350D), 70-300IS lens, and HD video camera we have to take them to Ritz to get checked out. if Ritz says they will cost more to fix then replace, then we get new ones. If not, Ritz tries to fix our current stuff. I hope that its totaled. Water damaged electronics can be really funky down the line.

The computer I have to take to a repair shop and see if they can fix it. Again, I hope its totaled. Right now I have the drive out to see if I can recover pictures and such. Both the computer and the backup were in the flood, but I am hopefull that I can get at least 1 of those drives to work.

The wireless router is functional! But, the jack that it plugs into is in the room that has taken the most damage, so it has to stay unplugged for the time being.

And, of course, dust and crap is all over the house.

We are going to hire contractors to put a ceiling back on and check/replace the recessed lights and ceiling fan. I am going to be repainting and replacing the floor. Painting and floors are easy. Ceilings aren't hard, per sey, but they aren't fun either. I've done the whole sheet rock thing. I don't feel that I am missing out letting someone else do that for me.

Okay, thats all I got. Hopefully, I'll have the wireless up again over the weekend, so I can get online via my work laptop.

Zach

wow, looks like the car will wait

Hi,
A bit of experience with this here. PM if you want details.

Remove the bottom 2 feet of the drywall, and possibly all of it off the walls in the area affected. The water got to the bottom plate of the wall, it wicked up and that area is now a hazard.

Make sure the complete job gets done. You should only have to pay the deductable...that is all. All restoration should be paid for by insurance.

Please understand a few words to keep repeating.
Baby and mold.
baby and mold.
Each time you talk to the insurance company say those words.

The proper way to do it.
Remove all drywall and insulation in affected area.
Dry it out.
Soak it with bleach...straight bleach.
Let that dry, then close it back up properly.

If Bleach is not used the mold spores will form in the wood and spread to the back of the drywall...then mold and baby will meet. Drying it out is not enough. There are two deadly mold spores in our part of the country...not the same as Texas, but just as bad...both are pine tree mold spores from Eastern White pine.

Mold will create lung problems, breathing issues, and in extreme cases brain damage and death. Sorry, had to say it so you are more paranoid...its for you and your babies own well being.

If your insurance company does not do a complete job they risk a very major lawsuit. There are many cases that will ensure they loose big.
They know this.. They know this very well but they will not admit it to you. They wont give you anything unless you say baby, mold...concern...lungs...etc etc.

The minimal job would be floors, ceilings and 50% up the walls.
New insulation, drywall, plaster, and paint.
New floors.
New plumbing repair.
That is minimal. It sounds like they are trying to get away doing less than that and they legally cannot.


Rich

Zach, sorry that you are having to deal with this.

Agree completely with the above with minor exception to the use of bleach. There are more effective chemicals that should be used to kill off mold that may be growing in the areas where moisture has been exposed. Bleach will not do a complete job.

Def agree with the removal of wall sheetrock below 3 or 4 feet.

Mike

Zach, I can come over this weekend if you need some help, company, etc. We may even be able to get you car done Call me/PM me for my # if you dont have it somewhere other than your soaked phone.

There is too much dust and noise at the house right now for us, as we are weekending with the grandparents. Which means I can be online.

So, here are pics I took with Erin's camera of the damage:
Where it started:


The wall behind the burst radiator.


The water in the computer room.


Water Damage


The two worst lights where the water was pouring out.


Water that wicked into the wood. Wet zone is to the right of the blue tape.


We had thre of the big dehumidifiers running and 10 of the red fans in the house.


Ceiling is gone. The wood support held the lowered ceiling. The lower sheet rock ceiling and the upper plaster ceiling had to come down.


Zach

You gonna put the ceiling back to it's original height or leave it as is ?

The wall with the window is all wet inside.
All the walls are wet inside from wicking...trust me, they are wet.

Its quick to do it now...it will suck to have to do it later on...

I am really sorry this happened..its a drag, especially in the winter.
At least you and your family are safe...worse things happen.

You will always have a great story about your new ceilings...

Rip the walls open.

Baby and mold is bad bad bad.
Do a little research of illness from moldy houses..
Your insurance company will agree with little effort, they have paid out some pretty big claims in the past for mold.
Its so bad for the insurance companies that when the Texas mold spores get into a house, they total the house and rip it down...its that big of a deal.

Rich

As is. I've never missed the extra space, and it would just take more energy to heat it.

Rich, I am going to have them open up that wall. USAA property claims are not opened on the weekends, but I am not going to let them close the recovery phase until that's done.

Zach

Here to be code on those pot lights they need a safety chain, so that in a fire they wont hang like that and electrocute a fireman. Also marrette joints must be in a box.

I'd take the money they are giving me for the carpet and buy anything but carpet. IMO

I'm not sure what the York PA code is. I know my township is stringent about codes, but that is going to be left to the folks that rebuild.

Zach

Good news on a strict code enforcement crew.
Talk to your building inspector...he will also MAKE the insurance company do certain things...he is your friend and you pay his salary..he is there to protect you, not the insurance company nor the construction company.

Most building inspectors are also contractors...listen to his advice and have him over monday morning to ask him what to do. Seeing it up close and personal with a professionals eye is the best way to go.

You should already have a permit BTW...even demo requires a permit...especially with the electrical issues you may or may not have.

Rich

Zach something no one has mentioned yet. PLEASE make certain ALL walls are thoroughly checked for water and ALL insulation that has even been dampened is removed. Old wet insulation is a haven for mold.

Vaulted ceiling with some thick crown molding around the top edge .....I'm just saying...........

Bummer man! Everything will get fixed. I agree with everyone about the mold. BAD STUFF!! Almost bought a house that was full of it. Had to pay a mold inspector $250 to examine the mold to tell me it was the nasty black stuff. Best $250 I have ever spent.

Gee man thats got to suck at this time of year. The local sewar main backed up and as my checkvalve was stuck open, I ended up with 6 inches of you know what in my basement.

I called it the 800 sq.ft. shithole.

The bottom 2 feet of wall was stripped and not repaired until I and the adjuster were satisfied the walls were dry and clean. That was two tests a week apart. for moisture and microbes.

Man it just gives me the willies thinkin about it... I can sympathize

Whoa Zach, no pun intended but that stinks! we had a similar but less serious occurance over at the old house with an out door faucet bung - froze and leaked in the basement. Insurance treated us well. Curious question - wonder if USAA helps pay the increased electric bill due to those heavy dehumidifyers. I am a cheep sob

Something like this happened to me 4 years ago. I was in the hospital and a friend went by my house to check on things. When she arrived she found the whole upstairs in 4" of water from a burst (burst is a very important word to use with the insurance company) ice maker water line.

I did exactly what you did and tore everything out finding tile under the carpet in the whole upstairs. The tile and carpet had to be removed.

The insurance company tried to pay me 7K first which didn't even cover the drying out. I decided to do a full remodel and put the insurance $ twards making it the way I wanted it. After fighting with the insurance company for 5 months with my house torn up I received another check for 17K. That didn't cover the replacement floors or the sheetrock, much less the Island Cabnets, which were falling appart from the water. I continued to fight and at the 9 month point they sent me an "independent apraiser" to re-evaluate the estimate. He sent an update that listed the same line items with the same quotes. I thretened to reported them to the Insurance regulators for fraud and they sent me a check for 50K more!

So the moral to the story is, don't give up if you feel you are in the right!! Don't settle for the first check and don't cash any of them until you are satisfied with the work & money you have received!!

Upstairs, downstairs and after

Zach, sorry to hear about the trouble, here in SF area the codes make anyone with a water heater inside the house have a pan under the heater that is drained either outside or into the main plumbing drain. Expensive, but it might not be a bad "retrofit" when you get done with the cleanup, and before you replace the heater. Another option is a tankless heater. Good luck. Jim

This is old school forced steam heat or forced hot water..
There is no safety valve in this type of system, never was.

If a radiator springs a leak, it can and does dry up your well till you come home.
It could have been worse if he has not caught it when he did...
These systems will keep heating the water, and keep pushing it through the pipes as long as the thermostat says its cold.

Rich

You Californians...

Radiators are not water heaters. Our water heater is down in the basement, brand new and fully functional, and not attached to the radiators that warm our house. Water goes from the house line to a natural gas boiler for heating and is then piped into the radiators, one of which is in each room of the house.

If the water heater (or boiler for the matter) were to go, the worst that would happen is that we'd have water in our unfinished basement. We get water down there at least once or so a year from storms pushing water down the old coal chute.

Zach

OOPS! My bad, that's what I get for guessing. I haven't been around THOSE kind of radiators since I left Alaska in the early sixties. And, we never had any "upstairs"....never had an extra floor up there. Didn't live in a 2 story until I bought my own.....Jim

Okay, I just talked to the guys from the disaster recovery team. One wall is coming out for sure. Core samples are going to be taken from all the other walls at baseboard level. If moisture or microbes are found, those walls will come down as well.

The fans will still be on through Monday evening, so we will be at the inlaws through Tuesday morning.

Zach

I'm no heated radiator expert but it seems like a one way valve set at 18 psi would divert the pressure back to the supply if the pressure dropped anywhere.

So, yeah. Still not home. Most of the fans are out, but they are still running them in the computer room. This pisses me off as I think that they are trying to get out of taking out the wall. The damn wall needs to come out.

Today we put the cats in a baording house on our dime. Insurance won't cover it. Sad All 5 had been living in our bedroom. I'm tired of living at the inlaws, and want to get back into my dang house.

Zach

So, the wall is still in place, and the fans are still running. Which means I am still living out of a backpack at my inlaws. I'm tired, cranky, and feel like I am bleeding money. That is all.

Zach

I have been following your woes, I could not (and this is unusual for me) come up with something to say, I could not imagine.

I hope this will be over soon for you and your family.

Smile through the pain Wallow in the awesomness

Okay, had a talk with USAA.
They confirmed to me that the wall would be out today, as well as the fans. Core samples would be done today on the walls that are considered "dry."

Appraiser will be out Monday or Tuesday of next week to let me know what he thinks the repairs should cost. Independant appraiser will be in over the weekend if not tomorrow to do the same.

I have saved all my pictures from the soaked PC. I've not started on music yet, but the pics are off so I am happy. Computer can be totally dead now and I'll be fine with it. I've had the machine speced out and replacement value will be submitted to insurance hopefully by the end of the day today. maybe tomorrow.

I have a cell phone again, so that is good. That receipt has been submitted.

Cats have moved into a boarding facility. On our dime. $Cha-ching$ But they were starting to go crazy in the bed room.

Little guy still is not sleeping through the night yet at the inlaws. Wakes up around 3am like clockwork. Not figured that one out, he sleeps like a stone at home.

Zach

Talk to the building inspector.
Ask for his advice and ask him to inspect what the insurance provider says they will do. He may suggest more be done. Get his requirements in writing.

Rich

Wall is out, though they did not actually do that until yesterday. Core samples confirmed that almost all of the other walls are dry inside and out. One section of a wall upstairs (directly behind the radiator that popped) needs to come out. Tomorrow I'm going over to inspect everyhting and start vacuming up the dust.

Plumber inspected the other radiators today, and they were said to be okay. However, that was blunted with the "you know, they rust from the inside..." statement.

The dude who has to inspect the flooded electronics came today to pic everything up. however, as I did not know that they guy was comming over, I had already had my PC evaluated on my own. But this will cover the zoom lens, camera body, and video camera.

I wanna get back into my house by Monday. Dammit.

Zach

Holy crap Zach! I'm so sorry to hear about your tale of woe. I just found out today... guess I've been hanging out in the Sandbox a bit too much.

So, we got a lot lf cleaning done today, and it looks like we will be able to move in again on Monday. We have a massive air cleaner sucking all the crap out of the air. So, pics as the tale continues...

The last attempt to clear the water out of the wall.

And so long as the wall is out, and I am going to be covering everything up...


And the wall out


The "look" tag with the arrow on it is pointing to a beam with termite damage that has to come out. No insects in there, but the wood is really spongy.

Zach