What if anything will i have to do to my webers to make them work good at 9300'above sea level .....Going to Colorado this summer for the Porsche Parade.I`m at sea level now and there set at euro spec`s ...so ive been told ....1970 914-6 2.0 ..K-N Filters with headers and traid muffler pretty much stock any help would be great thanks.........PS i think they have 10%ethanol in there fuel?

Thanks again
Mike

convert to fuel injection ...

or

be prepared for rich running and poor starts unless you rejet when you get there.

I have to think that there will be other guys there in the same boat. Doesn't the PCA have a tech there just for that reason??

Oh yah right, I forgot the members with all the $$$ are driving new cars and the techs will be there to assist in the selection of wine.

I would have liked to go to the Parade this year but the AX turned me off on the idea. I skier's parking lot at 9300 feet doesn't do much for me.
I have no clue how to jet for that to boot.
EFI & turbo cars will rule....unless the course is as tight as rumor has it......then a 914 has a chance.

I'll keep a eye out for you, really looking forward to having Parade in my backyard.

Maybe Brant or someone with some real knowledge will chime in as I can't help you much with the carbs, running rich won't kill ya.

10% ethanol is true, but you can still find places that sell the good stuff in the summer. Not sure up in Keystone though.

Ferg

You can adjust your mixture when you get here. The fact is, you'll start feeling the difference in altitude at 4000 feet. If you can't adjust your own carbs now, you should get some practice in beforehand.

I still don't understand why they would host a parade and AX at 9,300 ft! IMHO, it would have been much better to host the parade at a much lower altitude, and make the 9,300 ft parking lot a day trip.

I wonder how many of the old farts (i.e.my age) will keel over after a few days in 9,300 air?

Eric Read

Flatlanders!

Contact Matt
http://www.eurometrix.ws/

He will steer you right.

Rich

Guilty I live 45 feet above sea level.

Eric Read

I skied at 10k feet for a day...it certainly was tiring.
They will miss alot of the older crowd this year with that choice of venue....and probably alot of carbed cars also.

Rich

I have been over 11000ft.. Just change the Air correctors on the mains 2 sizes up (example: running 1.75 air now, go to 1.95)

This will allow it to not foul the plugs so easy. It may still run doggy..

Art Thraen @ ACE

www.aircooledengineering.com

I know that the cars acan be made to run Ok at 10,000 ft altitude. But still, doesn't an autocross at that altitude only really appeal to tuners?

Eric Read

I don't get the complaint about running an AX at 9600'. It's not that big a deal.

I live at 5k and drive a carb'd 914 all the time. It routinely goes up into the mountains in the summer without mucking around with the carbs. 10k is pretty average. My car tuned for 5k runs OK at that altitude. Not perfect, but it's not bad. The summer before last I drove it up to Mt Evans summit at 14k feet. Ran like a dog, but for an afternoon trip at that altitude, no big deal.

BTW, thanks Art for the altitude tuning advice!
What setup would you recommend for a pair of Weber IDF 40's on a 2056 Type IV at 5k feet of altitude? Main/vent/air/idle/etc...?

thanks to all ...ive got some good info and some not so good info ..but I expected nothing less....lol..more input is welcome ..look forward to meeting you Mr Ferg...lots of bitchen about the 9300' why....Im trailering the car so fixing it while there is out of the ? i want it done before hand...
Thanks
mike

If you are driving through Grand Junction, there is a Master 914 Mechanic there, Allen Johnson, He could set you up right before you climbed the big hill, maybe overkill, but if you bought the supplies before hand, it would be a good place it install tune ect.

Ferg

Cool Mr ferg i will try to set that up with him before i go ..do you have any contact info for Alan Johnson for me..PM me if you need to..all other ideas are still welcome
Thanks
Mike

Allen Johnsen
AJRS
719 Winters Ave
Grand Junction CO 81501
970-245-8685

Tell him you know me and Brant and he will hang up no seriously, he's the best and a super cool guy to boot.

Ferg

Thanks Mr Ferg ...That takes a big load off my small mind :Qarl:hope its not to far out of my way ...Im gonna look on maps quest

Here is one reason for the location choice - this is where the concour will be (right off my deck!) As well the parking lot for the AX is giant (several acres). and backs right up to the new base area at the resort.

Why would you want to be in just another city location, with the logistical hassles? When in Colorado, dont you want to actually experience Colorado?

Scott's got it right, the mountain locations are some of the finest locations. My wife and I have been to many Parades, and the ones in the mountains are always out favorites. Steamboat and Mt. Tremblant were both sensational, and Colorado Springs was also great (though just on the edge of the mountains).

If you can manage the trip, the Parade is great, and a lot of fun for all. I'm also affected by the altitude, but if you take it easy, you can get by with the lower oxygen saturation. The picture does pretty much say it all, it's beautiful.

i agree with you ..two years ago in SD cali the smoge was so thick you could cut it with a knife....I love the mountains and the clean air...but anyway i did get ahold of Allen Johnsen(Grand Juntion Colorado,,,Nice guy) and he set me strait about what to do with the carbs and timing and i already have the other jets so i will just need ajust and tune before i load it in the hauler and hit the road..Thanks you all for your help

Mike
A.K.A 6Freak

Is that your house Scott??..Just thought i would start this thread up again cuzz. why not getting close to Parade 09 ...My goal for Parade is to beat Terry Zocone in hes 69? 911 (por old marcel)...he is the AX master and i came in second the last three times we meet by just a second+ in our group ..I told him he was gun`n for him now i have to back up the smack talk

That picture was taken from the deck....

I just responded to your other post too. Looking forward to meeting you!

Ah, the reasoning for all the tuning concern he he.

so if anyone has any tips or any kind of advice I`m all ears ...I really need to knock this guy off the top at least one time(All in good fun of course)he knows I wanna bet him bad...and this mite be my best shot...2010 Parade is in Chicago..and I`m gonna pass on that one

I live a little higher than Gint (about 6400 feet here on the west side of Colorado Springs) and I love taking the little run up US 24 to Woodland Park* which is almost 8500 ft and honestly I don't notice the difference in my carbed 2.0 (which was last properly tuned and jetted when I lived at 1200 ft in Kansas). All I really notice is that my car gets quieter (unless I yawn or am chewing gum ).

Someday I really need to run the teener up Pikes Peak Highway and see how it handles 14k.

No, you're not going to run your best time ever, but it should still be a fun AutoX anyway.


Oh and for those of you flatlanders worried about altitude sickness, that really doesn't kick in until you get over 10k ... just drink more water than you do down there by the sea, cut your alcohol intake at least in half, and you'll be fine.


*Love to take the little detour through Green Mountain Falls ... stop by the "lake" and get a cup of coffee at The Mucky Duck or The Pantry.

I could actually leave it alone and it would just run rich from what i understand.RIGHT ?? Yes im bringing an extra set of plugs...I just really want it set for the best performance i can get because I know Terry Z will have his car set up to run the best it can at that altitude..But your right no matter what it will be fun ..Ive been reading up on the altitude stuff and they did say lots of water and half the booze

no shit ..Im in trouble

No, actually you'll save some money ... you flatlanders will enjoy economy drinking up here as it will require less alcohol to achieve you're preferred level of inebriation

Keep in mind that at altitude hydration is of the utmost importance ... if you're not hydrating while you're drinking expect a worse hangover.

Above 10-11k is like a punch in the gut running carbs. Towards the top of Pike's Peak you'll be thankful for low end torque 'cause the motor won't breath much.

very good point ....boy thats a +

getten ready to change the carbs go`n down 10 ..so if there 150 mains i go down to 140 mains and so on.. sound ok ?....And one more thing ...Tire pressure I add more air RIGHT??I`ve got new Hoosiers so i was thinking nitrogen..@ 36psi back and 34psi front .or maybe add 10 more in each cause im gonna lose some going up to that altitude...sound ok? ...Im starting to get nervous..Like im not gonna get it right ...Thanks in advance...Calling AJRS Racing...Allen Johnson right now... Grand Juntion CO
Mike

One more thing does anybody know what the euro spec`s are on the stock 6 carbs ..Thats what i have to start with

Mike,
Wouldn't you want less air pressure in the tires? The air pressure outside them will go down the higher you get. I'm not a racer, but it just seems like more air pressure in the tires would overpressure them at high altitude. ???
Tom

Hell i dont know . ...sounds lodgical ..Kinda like the clutch ajuster though,....,loose`n the nut to get more clutch seems backwards to me but thats how it works .....No longer laugh`n cause i thought i had it right and was just look`n for some confirmation ...But ya f*#@ me all up now

remove air....think of what a bag of potato chips does the higher you go

Going down on the mains is the right idea. You could go with bigger A/C jets but they have more of an effect at higher velocities. The smaller mains will help you from 3K and up. You might be rich up to 3K since your keeping the same idle jets. Since it's an AX I don't expect you to be that low except at the start. You can tweek your idle mixture screws in a bit to help but the fuel from the progression ports don't run through the mixture screw. You could go crazy and step down your idle jets but like I said your engine will most likely be running on the mains 99% of the time.

the higher i get the more the chips disappear(muchies) ...now thats funny ....really! so your say`n the bag will inflate. i guess that makes sence...guess i just have to play with pressures....now that brings up the ? what about truck and trailer tires they gonna be over inflated ....I`M so lost

So what's new! You were lost before. too funny man, you crack me up! Anyone given you a new nic-name yet? TLRK?
Tom

Thanks ...I was told go down 10 (mains)and then even maybe up to 60 on the idles? ...the more i get into it the more i get lost .....I`m so screwed ..LMAO...But yes it will be hi revs pretty much from start to stop...Thanks for help`n figure this out

Ha! .... cant you simply adjust your tire pressures to what you want them to be when you get here?

We also have electricity and running water - no need to plan on bringing your own!!!

Air pressure
Sea level - 14.7 psi
10,000 feet - 10.2 psi

Here maybe you guys that are worried about tire pressure can figure it out based on the info here:

http://www.2-stroke-porting.com/altiden.htm

Yes tire pressures are easy fix`s ...no issues there ..so here`s what Im gonna do go down 10 on the main jets check and make sure i have at least 60 idles and call it good and hope she go`s
And yes i have a generator I was thinking of bringing and a compressor and 5gallons of water also to wash my hands after wheel changes .

Tom Im almost afraid to ask what TLRK is

So anyway thanks to all for the help ..It really did help ...seeya in Colorado leaving Friday morning should get there Sunday nite......Working Tech Monday 9am tell 12 and then car wash(bikinis) from 1-5 Tuesday ... ....What day and time was the party Scott


Mike C

Hi Mike -
Look forward to meeting you. I should be up there no later than 10am on Monday - and that *should* include hitting the grocery store on the way. I will get the grills up and running as soon as folks start to arrive and we will go all day. We will start round 2 for dinner - probably do something a bit nicer like steak/chicken fajitas.

Bottom line, once I get up there, the doors are open - you cant be too early or late. This whole thing was to add to the fun, not cause any additional stress or planning.

I will throw another post up next week with the address/map and my cell phone.

I am really looking forward to all of this!

Me too ,..Its been along time come`n...do you want me to bring anything to the feast ...And or anyone need anything hauled from PNW Seattle Tacoma area I wont have a ton of room but some

What size idle jets are you running now?

60's seem huge to me. Heck a 2.0/4 runs a smaller jet than that.

Info I have for stock 914/6 40IDTP

Vents = 27
main jet = 1.05
AC = 1.70
ET = F1
Idle = 50

If your running IDA's

Vents = 42
Main Jet = 1.70
AC = 1.45
ET = F24
Idle = 50

Not to start this crap up again ...but here what i did last nite pulled the 125 mains and went 105(115 on order) hope they show up before the event...Pulled the 50 idles and went 45`s ...Car ran like crap i mean really bad ..sooo im think`n! go back to 50 idles, smooth out pretty good enough to go for a drive ...car has a good out of the hole snap but then stumbles at around 3500rpm and then again at 5500rpm ..Thats why im think`n 115 mains will stop that stumble and maybe go 55 idles...Iv got a copy of my book with the settings if i can fiure out how to post it ...yes it the IDA`s

cant get it to print so i will type it all out
euro ,,, USA ,,, mine at sea level
Venturi. ..........30...............27..........30
main je.t ........125.............105........125
air correction jets..........180............170.........165
idle meter jets ............52...............45..........50
idle air bleed ....110............................
acc pumpjet ......50...............................
emulsion tubes. .....f26............f1...........f3
float needle .....1.75........1.75..........1.75
float wieghts. grams ...25.5

but like i said i know have 105 mains and 50 idles .and im gonna go for 115 mains and maybe 55 idles or even 60 .....Allen Johnson AJRS Grand Junction CO gave me those #`s ...so i think im gonna go that way ...Im bringing lots of Carb parts with me