I'd like to know if a CV joint exists that is;

100mm outside diameter,
86mm bolt circle,
and 28 spline (would fit 930 axle)



If that doesn't exist, how about this;
108mm outside diameter,
94mm bolt circle
and 33 spline

Actual Porsche (or other manufacturer) part numbers would be a god sent.


Wes

Sure... that's what I used in my conversion thread in the Classics.

Thanks Erik. I saw that string when you first wrote it and then couldn't find it again.


Other than just refering to the CV as from an "early 911", could you give a specific year. (as you know, I'm new to this Porsche stuff)

(oops, missed the pre-74 comment)

Were all of the early 911 CV's 4 bolt and 2 pins or were some of them 6 bolt? The flange (at the wheel) that I have is for 6 bolts.

Wes

The output flanges I just got are six bolt 100mm. They are off a 76-79 915 tranny.

76 on up went 6 I believe. I'm no ex-spurt though.

The ones I used looked to be 70/71ish.

This is the list Andy made for using the 944 CVs on 914 shafts with 911 hubs.

BFH
two new 914 rear wheel bearings
four new 944 100mm 6-bolt CV joints including mounting bolts, boots and grease
two 911 ('75 - '79) 100mm 6-bolt coarse spline transmission output shafts
two output shaft seals
two 911 ('75 - '79) 100mm 6-bolt stub axles
four 911 100mm CV gaskets
two 911 ('69 - '73?) hubs, must have same bearing surface width as the 914 hubs
access to a lathe

I think the 944 CV's are normally 33 spline. What's not noted in Andy's list is if the axles are 33 or 28 spline. It's possible that some of the turbo 944's are 28. I don't know!

In Erik's write-up, he is specific about the axle that he is using is a 28 spline.

I can get (from Pelican) a complete, new, axle assembly (from Empi) for $69, which would get me the two CV's I need, but they list it as for a 1965-68 911. That's "pre 74", but I don't feel comfortable that the CV's are 28 spline.

All of this is an issue due to the fact that I'm going to use an Audi 012 transmission. At the transmission, a 930 CV can be used (same bolt pattern and size). The 930 CV is 28 spline and that dictates wanting a 28 spline CV at the wheel hub. The 911 wheel axle stub I have wants a 100mm 6 bolt CV.


Wes V

Wes I'm sorta new to the 911 stuff also. I think vw bus, and thing is also 100mm cv. Check out www.blindchickenracing.com, cv joints 101, I think I found this on samba a coupla years ago. It seems the jist of cv's is that 930 may have the most articulation but it's also 108mm and as you said 28 spline. You will need a 108 axle stub or a axle with both spline counts on each end it seems. There's a site on cv's and alxe measuring that might be of help. It also discusses keeping the rotation the same when installing and removing axles.http://www.rorty-design.com/content/axles.htm

I've got that "CV-101" page in my favorites. He gives pretty much all the dimensions for the common CV's out there, but never comments on spline count. I looked all over that web site looking.

Getting axles of the correct length isn't a problem (as Erik has pointed out). Sway-Away has them pretty much in 1" increments. The selection of 28 spline axles is greater than the 33 spline ones.

Empi also sells axles in various lengths.

(Sway-away is willing to build up axles that are 33 on one side, and 28 on the other, but the cost is high.)

Wes

I wonder if the swayaway cost is more than a 944 108 stub axle? I'm sure the 108 is a tight squeeze on your rear arms also.

Something I forgot about is I bought some parts on samba and when they came the axle stub is a stub cv combo, it's a 993 part and I didn't notice the stub didn't have the six holes in it when I bought it. It might be a way to stay with 100mm cv's and still use 28 splines axles. I didn't get the inner cv hub to see what splines it is. Also the boot must go over the outher OD of the stub cv so it might be just as big on OD as a 108mm cv.

I see you got you some of them 100mm 6 bolt output flanges !!!

jaxdream

Because i'm using *stock* 914-4 axles shafts ...
Andy

944 CV's are 100mm
Andy

And are 33 spline (which is what the 914/4 axle is.

Wes

Does anybody know the dimensions and spline count for the 84/86 911 carrera CV? (porsche number 923 332 032 00)

The PET (factory diagram and parts listing) shows that in 84 and 86 there were two different CV's. One is the 930 (turbo) version (930 332 034 00) and the other is the above noted "carrera" CV. The 930 CV is 108mm, 28 spline, 6 bolt.

Both call out for the usage of 6 bolts (and no dowel pin shown in the diagram)

From what I can tell, all 911's had 28 spline axles.

So ---- maybe that carrera CV is the magical 100mm, 28 spline, 6 bolt CV I want.

Wes

Yeah, from a guy in Canadia for a screaming price

Just waiting for my axles back and then I'll put them together quickly

I don't know why the 76 to 79 911 wouldn't be what you are looking for. This is where the 6- bolt output flanges comes from. Should be 28 sline or I imagine Andy would have used these instead of the 944 CVs.

All the 911 stuff was 28 spline cause it's better

You boys be making this way more difficult than need be:

Find macthing 911 stub axles and flanges, get the CV's and some Empi or Sway-a-Way axles and bolt it up. Done.

You can use the 100 or 108mm CV's, it all depends on the flanges and stub axles you've got. I can't imagine why a 2000lb car would ever need anything more than the 100's but, nothing wrong with a bigger net.

houston, we have a problem: 100mm 6-bolt cv for '75 to '84 = 25 spline


Click to view attachment

I count 28 but it's a bad picture

I'm not sure if that picture posted up is a 923 332 032 00 (which is the 84/86 carrera joint), but;

I called Zim's and they pulled one and counted the splines for me. It's 25!!!!!

So, that's not the answer to my question. (it also shows that not all 911's had 28 spline axles)

The search goes on!!

Wes

Learn't something new. I guess the higher the output, the less splines.

Oh do you really think any of this is going to make sense?

The carrera has a 25 count spline, while the turbo has 28. That would mean that the carrera has more horsepower. (hell, for all I know it does)

I haven't given up (and Eric, I agree it shouldn't be this difficult).

I went out to Otto's today and put him on the search.

I also have Marty from Raxles on the hunt.

The GKN Lobro web site says that it will down-load a PDF catalog (which may have the information), but the function doesn't seem to work. I've tried twice (and I'm not on an office computer that locks out such stuff).

Wes

Early Turbo had 240hp. I wonder the spline count on later Turbo's?

Are you basing this off one piece that you have? Maybe just hit the salvage yards or PP's classifieds and get a new stem to stern system and sell the piece that you have.

I think the Vipers have a 3 spline axle. Ok, enough of that.


Eric;

For me it all started when I wanted to convert the rear to 5 lug and followed SirAndy's formula which uses 944 CV's. In order to have the wheel hub and stub axle fit the factory 914 wheel bearing (and early 911) width, a "75-79 911 stub axle with 6 bolt, 100mm CV" attachment is needed. Which I found and bought a pair.

The total formula works for him due to being able to run 33 spline axles.

It goes off base for me due to the fact that the transmission I'm going to run has an easy attachment (108mm 6 bolt) of a 930 turbo CV. That's 28 spline.

The owner of Sway-away told me that the 28 spline axle is stronger (not just a function of the CV design) and there is a greater selection of lengths (without having custom axles made). So, I want to stay 28 spline.


If the CV I'm looking for in reality doesn't exist, (I keep hearing "ya, no problem", but nobody seems to be able to come up with one) I have a couple options.

1. I could search for a 108mm body 33 spline 6 bolt CV to be mounted at the transmission. (I think that would be even more difficult than what I'm already dealing with)

2. Maybe I could have a qualified machine shop drill the stub axles I have for the dowel pins. If not exact, you would have a horrible in-balance and would eat wheel bearings!!

3. Chuck it all and start over.

(As for the recommendation of crawling around a junk yard looking for something that would work; in spite of living in Los Angeles, or maybe because of it, there really are no yards that have Porsche stuff where they will allow you in the back. That puts me in the situation where I have to "badger" people in the know for information and you seem to get the brunt of it.)


Wes Vann

The part # of the joint I posted is 923 332 032 00, however it is not a carrera joint. It is for 911 '75 - '83. A carrera joint has a larger diameter and different spline count.

I bought some parts for the emer. brake change from these guys and they might know off hand as they were pretty knowledgeable on the brake stuff. They say they have lots of parts. www.20car.com, 602-258-2277. cell 602-723-2020 Sonny Bienias, 20th Street Auto in Phoenix. I had another place but I will have to go back through my saved emails to find it.

I found it: Bill Martin <planetporsche@autotechplus.com>

Here I go giving advice again but... looks to me you have one end done.

1. Find a pair of 108mm 6 bolt stub axles and begin your project.
2. Sell the 100mm stub axles you have and it will probably be a wash.
3. Get 108mm 28 spline 930 CV's and,
4. Slide them on your new Sway-a-Way or Empi axles.
5. Bolt everything together with no machining and no adapters.

The way I see it you're either going to sell your 108mm tranny flanges or your 100mm stub axles regardless... (unless you plan on having two different sized CV's on your car)

Ask Jon Von Bovey what car his 100mm 6 bolt flanges came off. He got them from a guy in Canaduh who should be able to tell him.

I've found the magic CV's!!

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But before I tell you about them, I've got to say that I like Eric's solution that he posted in the classics section, with one caviat;

I personally feel that CV's are a "wear item" and if possible you should use new ones. (we are talking about CV's that are better than 30 year old here)

Porsche no longer sells the CV's separatly. And when they did, they were very costly.

GNK / Lobro sold the CV for a while, but discontinued it.

GKN / Lobro sells a replacement axle assembly (minus axle stub), but from all I can find out uses a 25 spline axle. Sway away only makes axles in 28 and 33 spline count and I know of no source of 25 spline axles in various lengths.

Porsche does still sell the axle assembly (CV to CV), but the axle size (spline count) is unknown. (it doesn't really matter if you are replacing the complete assembly as a unit) The price is in the neighborhood of $600. (local Porsche dealer)

So; unless the complete Porsche axle is 28 spline, it's impossible to do the Eric configuration with new CV's. (unless you source out a different "magic" CV like the one I found) If they are using 28 spline CV's, as in the original, then you would have to pay close to $1200 for the four required CV's

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The SirAndy solution of using 944 (VW type 4) CV's is good in that the CV's are available and the cost is reasonable.

An individual may be able to avoid the machine work on the 914 axle if a Sway away axle is available in the length required. (go to the Sway away web site to see what they have. Also check what Empi may have available)

This solution uses 33 spline axles which are not as strong as the 28 spline ones.

I doubt that the lesser strength matters.

However, in what I'm trying to do, 28 spline axles are part of the requirement.

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Here is what I found;

Taylor Race Engineering has the exact CV I need. It's part number 02002521 and sells for $199. They have them in stock.

It starts with a "lightened" 100mm CV from GKN that is for a 25 spline axle (GKN cuts down the outside diameter of the CV body, thus making it "lightened"). They (Taylor) then re-size and re-broach the inner race to fit a 28 spline axle.

The result is a lightened 100mm, 6 bolt (8mm) CV that will take a 28 spline axle (which is available from Sway away in just about any length you need)!!

This sort of work isn't unique to Taylor. I found another shop that can (and does) provide the service. (McKenzie's performance products)

(sorry about the diatribe nature of this post!!)

Wes Vann

It would be nice to have some brand spank'n new ones. After look at what I had I'm fairly confident they'll never fail (oooooooooops... did I say never?)

This may be another reason for others to source the 108mm CV. Those can be readily had in the way sub $100 range.

Post pics of what you found when you get them.

Wes you may have thought of this already but you may need longer bolts if the new cv's are thicker.

Ya, I've thought of that and was just going to get some of the ones sold by Dr. Evil that are drilled for safety wire (after figuring out the exact length required).

Dr. Evil's safety wire CV bolts

What's scary is that it appears that you have already added to his string about the 944 CV's and no response was added.

A correct length would provide a bolt that extends about three threads past the flange.

Wes

Technically the bolt only needs to go in as deep as it is wide. In my case that would be six threads. It does that but there is still room for a few morebefore it still out of the flange. It would give more piece of mind I know.

I think the old dia = depth really is a general rule it probably really depends on the alloy/grade and number of threads per inch as you all know metric has many different threads per inch.

I got the Dr's bolts, washers and wire, very promptly from a good seller, sorta like from ebay, I already had the pliers but they aren't cheap. Just remember to keep the tension on the bolt heads in the cw direction.

The only thing is when the bolts extend past the hub that means the threads could get rusty and be hard to get out.

CharlieW;

I don't really know where I heard of that "three threads past" rule and if I could change my wording I think it was two threads past.

The only justification I can think up is so that it doesn't cause stress risers within the threaded body. But that's just a guess.

Eric;

Now that I know they exist, I can put the subject to rest and worry about other things. It's going to be a while before I need them.

As for a photo, this is a photo from their web site showing the "lightened" 100mm, 25 spline CV. The one I need would look the same, just with 28 spline.



Wes