Ok seriously, you could build a 914 to compete at the nationals, but only if one would be willing to spend some serious cash, just like the competition.

To be competitive you'd need a big 6 (375-400 hp) coupled with the right transmission/gearing and tire combination. JP's two speed approach would work great.

Actually the Beast would be a good starting point, although maybe a bit heavy, but the big motor/transmission combinations are right now sitting up in Reno.

Like a 400HP-normally aspirated 6.

IMO, you reach a point where HP becomes less important than light weight & grip.
If you look at the results of the last Nationals you'll see that the quickest D Mod car WAXED the top E mod rig. So, get down to minimum weight & finger out a good way to get some super soft radial slicks under the car & git down on it.

Interesting - So Hoosier (?) radial slicks, soft compound, but what size for front/back?

R25s in Hoosier. Believe me, Iff'n I could figure out a way to get them on my car, I'd have done it. The rears are a piece of cake......several sizes with several wheels widths.....10 or 12 inch. My problem is the fronts. The smallest recommended wheel width is 10 inches. I already know those won't work up front....to much scrub radius and I can't get them inboard far enough to get rid of that.....the shocks get in the way. Of course the tiars cost 100 bucks apiece more than the bias jobbies.

That said, I am pretty sure that Brit could trophy in the car as is at the Nats....if he would get over the chokes.

I think them Lotus's have got it covered pretty well.

Love your car but I doubt it. As Paul said, the Lotus' have it well covered and there are so many other cars in that class that are very well prepaired with much more modern everything. You have set up your car well for competition locally but once you go to the main stage it is a whole new world. Come up to a Bremerton SCCA event when all the National winners are there and run your car with them. They'll show you where you stand I get blown away watching some of them run

Sadly 914s in SCCA are hard to prepair in any of the mod classes. Leeds car is a great example of that. He has over 200k in R&D in that car and still not where it needs to be to be a winner today. When Greg and Jodi won in that car it was where it needed to be but in todays game not so much. I am sure Leeds Boxster will be there though. They have been working on it for long enough.

You would be mistaken. One Lotus clone trophied in E Mod.....3rd place, 5 sec back over 2 days or 2.5 sec per day.

The fastest SS car would have taken 3rd in E Mod less than 2.0 sec back over 2 days... 1 sec per day. Brit beat the best SS car at the NT event we attended by .5 sec on the first day.....there is room there...with no chokes. A lot of "ifs" here, but room.

Sure, we've gone to the National Tour events at Packwood the last 2 years. 2nd last year (2007) due to the rain, 1st this year (2008) in E Mod. We need to go to NWRPCA to see where we stand? How many of those guys won their classes at the NT? Barstow beat Brit on day one by a .5 sec. Brit choked on day 2 running 2.5 sec slower on day 2.

We will settle this up at the Shoot Out. You wanna see the box run before that, get off your net horse & get up to Packwood some day. You sound like them GGR guys prior to the first Shoot Out. Ya'll are AX center of the world....NW version, eh?
We've run aginst the NWSCCA guys at their one of their events at Packwood. Some quick guys.

SO why not run upper and lower control arms up front? It certainly can't be that hard. Benefits is you get to set the tire where you want it. you get to run WAY better shocks, camber gain and other suspension geometry stuff if done right would certainly benefit.

I would love to graft in a Miata or RX-7 3rd gen rear suspension as well.

Now you would be able to put down all the power you can make.

Driver Driver Driver
My old co-driver was consitently 2 seconds faster than me. He was pretty damn close to the top XP car on day 2 of the last Houston NT.
Very inconsistant driver that could pull a fast run out of his ass. In fact he pulled one out so quick that the timing table gave him a re-run. In car video said he did it but the scoring table wasn't interested. They said you back it up and you can have it.

It certainly would be. .....and if it weren't, I'd make it so.

At best one would have to fab a whole new sub frame....after one chose which suspension to use. A Boxster/996 front end looks as if it would match up closest...keeping struts. I an't that good....."A man's got to know his limitations."

So why are radial slicks so much better than bias ply? Is it that they deform less?

At Trekkor's first Infineon A/X school I took an instruction ride in a new Lotus.

The driver was quite good - on the other hand the car's handling was simply stunning. It just went everywhere he pointed it and with minimal effort.

I was impressed.

And he wasn't running a big tire combination....

Click to view attachment

The R25 compounds are not widely available ....more sizes in radials and a better match to car weight. The bias ply R25s are for Formula Atlantic cars which come in at around 1100 lbs. The fronts need a 10 inch wheel and the rears 14 inch.

I'm not talking about Pac Nationals. I am talking about the finals in Kansas. Plus, I'm not sounding like the GGR guys as I am not claiming I am one of these fast guys. The guys up here have the National wins to prove they are what they are. The Colmans, Fordahls, Brown, Bauers and others.... All have won nationals in Pacwood and then Kansas. Some of them multiple years.

I would love to come down before the shootout. I just don't know if the funds are going to permit that right now unless I make a few sales here real quick. I am trying though.

Britt beating Barstow would say something but he didn't. Still, car VS car a true E mod car should kill your car. It's true that the car only gets you so far as yu need to have the driver to complete the package. Again, not trying to bash your car as you have done so much great things to it. Just stating the paper facts.

Ran ab SCCA practice day today. It was sunny & gettin' warm as I loaded the car about 11:00 AM. We were in the first afternoon group.....clouds are gathering. We get staged & go thru the preliminary BS......rain drops are increasing......SHIT!

Lemme tell ya, slicks & an open car are not the hot ticket in the rain. I'm settin' in the lanes with a bathtowel draped over my helmet & steering wheel. The rain quit
after my second slideathon. At least I was more comfortable.....
That was the only run group that got rained on.....figures.

BTW, don't be a chump, Jon, if "paper" was all it took we could mail in our times.

JP that is some funny shit about "paper racing"

Had a great day at our little postage stamp of a lot that is more gravel pit and black top.

Found I had more traction and control running in 3rd gear. Had FTD sewed up till my buddy jumped in a guys new CSP Miata with new Ho's FUK that car is fast.

Hey Joe, did the cf covers come out ok when you put them on the car?

Paper racing? They're called results and proof. Carry much more weight than talk. Sure, it is best to get out there and AX every chance you can. I have twice so far this year without my car but seat time is seat time. I can't wait to get my car finished . Should be ready to go for the next event and then I can get it ready for when we meet

OH, you want results? From 2007 ....the last time we ran with NW SCCA.
1,2,4,& 5 were open wheel cars.

1 Gary Milligan TOAM 58.600
2 Joe Cheng TOAM 62.449
3 Ron Bauer OPAX 62.730
4 Sheldon Lemoine OPAX 63.468
5 Ernest Fanthorpe OPAX 63.553
6 Ron Bauer TOPM 63.618
7 Britain Smith TOPM 63.989
8 Mark Snell NS1 64.063
9 Stacey Molleker NS1 64.160
10 Jim Daniels OPAX 64.274
11 Glen Hernandez OPAX 64.705
12 Fastmike Lillejord OPAX 64.889
13 Navid Kahangi S2 65.343
14 Warren Hope OPAX 65.343
15 Tami Daniels TOPM 65.404
16 Kevin Dietz OPAX 65.511
17 Laura Molleker NS1L 65.568
18 Paul Marshall TOPM 65.619
19 Brett Wilson SM2 65.709
20 Jared Floyd SM2 65

166 others including me....
You got any other questions?

JP, again, I am not saying your car is not impressive. It is and is a very amazing car. I am saying, however, at the National level, meaning THE National event, a 914 in the class you are running will not be the number one car. I don't mind if you prove me wrong. I love our little 914s and love to see them win things that they really shouldn't. I really do expect to see a 914 set TTOD at the shootout. WHether it is your car or Leads car or Randals car or.... I don't know but I do think one of you guys will do it. The 911s will bow to our little 914s

Terminology........
Trophy does not mean win the class. IIRC, the top 4 cars trophied in E Mod last year......11 or 12 guys trophied in SS. Stick with me here, son, soon you'll know what you're talking about.

I'm aware of the shitbox's limitations.....thas why I keep working on it.
If I had moe money...but more importantly, more time/talent, it would be competitive for the class win at the Nats.

I'm in the process of puting in a passenger seat....a cheep one....the harness is gonna cost more than the seat. Bring your own barf bags.

Yea I almost made a kid puke once.

Hell i almost puked when my co-driver was kickin.

Most people won't ride in the RNR again. I can only con them into it once.

It's always worse as a passenger ...

Rich Bontempi gave me ride in his racing viper once.
Andy

Some years back I gave a ride to a good lookin' tomato....er....an attractive young lady. She got to squealing like she was having the Big O......that's as close as I got. She was a good AXer to boot.

Yup that's as close as I have gotten with them "tomatoes" too.
My wife just snickers when some young thing jumps in the passenger seat.

Pretty much goes like this at the start line. "Is that your wife"? yea, "why doesn't she ride with you".
Starter "GO"! me "CUZ" her "ahhhhhh! Oh My god!!!!!! we're gonna die"............. Holy Shit!!!!!!!!!!!

and that is before the 1st set of gates.

I love it when that happens. Sad when the guys that ride along do the same though . My wife didn't even scream as loud as one guy did when we were going through a series of offset gates

My wife love to ride along with all the drivers she can but doesn't want to drive herself

Click to view attachmentMine drives

I hope to say that someday.

I think best route to SCCA Nationals Podium would be to find a national class car buy it or buy a ride. Drive every event you can.

I havent seen 914 guys including JP (The "Master" of all things AX ) even come close to a National Class E-mod car. It would take at least 300 HP and extensive suspension sork to make a national class e-mod 914 in my opinion. You would have to rework The Beast to be competitive in Emod. ....Great chassis and suspension just a tad heavy. Perhaps it would do well with huge HP and tons of tire. You would need setup that would allow for R25 compound Hoosier slicks. Or possibly expereiment with 13 or 14 inch setups that would allow softer Good Years.

I actually think D Prepared is probably the class where a 914-6 might just be competitive at a national level. I was thinking this would be a good class for 2.5 Boxster too.

Again AAS is the place to benchmark since national Podium placing emods show up to those events, Take a whirl in The Beast and see if youre close. I have run against the fast E mod guys and they put 3 seconds on my 914 when it had a good LSD. Just check shootout results to see how far JP's Emod was in front of my stockish suspended under 200 WHP car with a broken LSD. Either I'm a miracle driver (doubtful) or JP's car just isnt close to what a competitve Emod could do. JP tends to get puffed up when his Emod sets TTOD in a field of street cars. Unfortunately thats not real world expereince with the fast Emod cars.

It might just be me but if you are going to Nationals go to win, not for 4th place. Getting 4th in a field of 10 to 13 Emods seems lame to me. You know at least 50% field will be hacks.

You're such an idiot.

914-6 goes in FP. There are engine rules and weight
914-4 goes in DP and again engine rules. and weight

So you better bring suspension.

SSM would be the place to build a monster motor great suspension big tired car. 3.6 turbo, enough cage to make the car stiff, shocks and springs, 315 Hoosier A6. That will get it done. It would put you in the power to weight of the two RX7's and the 300 + hp Miata.

It would be the most expensive trophy in history. If you can drive.

Feeding the troll Joe?

Feel the love...

Typo I meant to type F Prepared 914's have podiumed there ...D prepared would be too tough

Yeah but then youre talking real competition and good drivers in that class. And Randals cars are already beyond the point of a SSM class car. If the goal is to win nationals its best stick to easier classes and to co-drive with a proven winner.

Hey Joe let us know how you do at Nationals in XP this year. LOL! At least I'm honest and can admit I wouldnt have a chance there in my own car. When either you or JP win nationals in a well attended class you will likely command respect you both are so eager to enjoy. You guys have been spouting off for almost 5 years on this board about nationals and have never gone? I'd say its time poop or get off the pot.

In general the 914 community really doesnt take AXing serious and stays safe in local events. A couple 914's have gone to Nationals but they arent the ones posting on message boards. Those are the people I'd talk to if I were serious. Probably would talk with a few non 914 aX developers too.

Well as a matter of fact I am going to Houston National Tour next week. Driving a CSP Miata. Not mine of course but I got invited as a tire warmer.

Trolls are like possum. If you keep putting out food for the dogs/cats overnight, you'll have a trol....possum problem. If you stop feeding them they will eventually leave and you'll never miss them......they add nothing to the ambiance of the area.

Good for you! Dont tell anyone this but I think youre a fast driver and should do well. Hey have you driven a Miata before? You'll be depressed on how well it turns compared to a 914. Let us know when you go to The Nationals. As I said very few posters on this board have any expereince at the main Solo National event in a 914.

Its difficult to say what it would take to develop an E Mod winning 914 at The Nationals, not a regional tour event, but the one event that determines the fastest car and driver for the year. JP seems to think he has it dialed, but my expereince says he is drinking a bit of his own kool aid.

"...Kool-aid"

And how it your autocrossing been going oh yee of little weight?

I hear rumors that an E Mod Boxster is being developed. Now that would be interesting. Emod Boxster verses E Mod 914. I think Boxster would be cheaper to go fast, but 914 probably could be made into faster E mod car if you exploited all rules.

Having driven both 914 and Boxster I see strengths and weaknesses in both. I know an equally setup 914 with a 2056 motor would be very close in capability to my current stock powered 2.5 liter Boxster. Boxster turns better but carries a little too much weight. Boxster doesnt suffer nearly as bad from lack of LSD as a 914 does.

Have you looked at E-Modified SCCA rules.

2056cc ????? really you have no clue.

Yeah????? Never said anything about 2056cc or a 2.5 boxster being in E mod? I just was comparing platforms with similar power to weight as a comment?

E-mod rules allow up to 3200cc's. Perfect for a Boxster S motor powered car - Which rumor has as the E-mod car in question - Have Jake do his magic on the 3.2 and I bet it would put out over 300 HP - then strip that sucker down to under 2000 lbs (which would be quite easy). I suspect you could get a boxster down to 1800 lbs if you worked hard at it.

We are likely to see a Boxster E mod at Nationals before a 914. But its nice to know we have a few "rules experts" like you here. LOL!

For me I'm satisfied with going to local SCCA, UFO, PCA events in my little underpowered OSP Boxster and occasionally beating big bad Cobras and being beaten by very well driven Miatas. No delusions about podium placing at nationals for me. I'll leave that to you and JP.

Trollin', trollin', trollin', keep that cake hole trollin'...........
Bullshit....even at the speed of light... is still bullshit.

To be a rule stretcher...... you gotta be a rule expert.
I don't know much E mod BS
But I know the XP and SSM and SP rules pretty well. I believe I am going to exploit the XP rule pretty well and the white hulk of a 914 in my garage will be Damn fast.

Keep us updated to your progress. Perhaps sometime late next decade you might show up to SCCA Nationals? But I'm sure in mean time we will hear about your ability to exploit rules, how fast it is, etc. Just dont take 6 years to develop a car you "think" could podium at Nationals and never go. Would hate to hear you talking about your "fast driver" all the time when you get older and slower. If this is important to you take it serious and make it happen now. I do hold hope for you as I do know you get it when it comes to setup and tire choices. Some "other"drivers are still a little confused to what it takes. I'm sure a certain Shootout attendee is still trying to figure out how a car more than 50 HP down from his with a broken LSD and on Good Year road race slicks beat him at the Shootout and was under a second behind his ringer driver. Good Emod cars waxed me by 3 seconds in the same car at Marina so be careful about what those without actual Nationals expereince spout about setup.

I would just love to see somone serious on this board build a real SCCA Nationals contender for either XP or E Mod. SO far no one is close. E Mod is probably best class to target as hardly anyone shows up and it gets thin at lower part of podium. XP is a tougher class at Nationals from what I have observed.

What was that really great compound that Goodyear used to offer in the canti slicks?

200 or 220?

Now those were sticky tires.

The buggy guys can get 160 compounds still in 13" - the tires are so ft they feel like bubble gum.

I called Good Year about year and half ago. They said if we could get an order of 100 together they would run a batch of soft compound cantis. I wasnt willing to herd cats across all the forums to see if we could put together a group buy.

I still think The Beast could be competitive with a 3.8 ML motor and matching trans. The car is already set up for (reasonably) big tires and it could lose some weight easily.

Much more cost effective way than building a new car or trying to turn a tank into a dune buggy.

Yeah do it! 3.8 is what belongs in the Beast. For as big and wide as it is it needs huge power and big sticky tires. I dont think it would be E mod however.