My dad and the guy that rebuilt my motor finally got the timing set on it today but it still doesn't have any power after you get to around 3000 rpm. It's a 1.7 and fuel injected. Tomorrow they are going to check the fuel pressure and swap out the MPS for another one I have sitting on the shelf. Any ideas why this thing won't run??

Thanks

Scott

the timing is wrong.

RIch

check your valve adjustment too.

especially about the timing, easy check and if you still have points ignition check the settings again.

sounds weird, but just double check your plugs and make sure they are the right ones. It (honestly) wouldn't be the first time I have seen a new motor with new plugs and just accidentally bought the wrong plugs.

I once got a set of points that it took me two days to decide the spring was weak and the points were floating at about 4k. It obviously happened after I changed the cap, rotor, points, condenser, plugs and wires but it was running rough before I started. I even wasted money on a new coil trying to fix it.

If you're still having problems with this, you might just want to replace your distributor cap. Sometimes the cap will develop a crack you can't hardly see. But at the higher RPMs, the cap crack will widen, causing the timing to fail.

It's pretty cheap to change out the dist cap, so what the heck. give it a try...

Eric

Thanks for all the suggestions. I stilll need to get a timing light and recheck the timing. I did test the fuel pressure and it was around 35 at idle. I also checked it while driving it and at around 3500 rpm it drops to around 20 or lower. I also noticed that if I don't give it alot of gas it powers thru the 3000-4000 rpm range. Only when I really try to give it gas that is bogs down. Hopefully resetting the timing will fix it. It will be a couple days before I can try. Thanks again.

Scott

It really sounds like a fuel supply problem if it trys to speed up as you are letting off or gradually mashing down on the pedal.

That's a little high Scott. I think 28-29 is the spec. High pressure = rich running.

Another area to check is the advance plate in the distributor. Make sure it is moving freely.

how do I adjust the fuel pressure? It did smell like gas when I was driving it but I didn't find any leaks. the advance plate was sticking before they put the distributor back in but they took it apart and fixed it. Is there a way I can check it also?

thanks

Scott

fuel pressure regulator is the next piece downstream of the drivers side fuel rail. Undo the locknut. Counter clockwise to decrease.

Haynes Chapter 2 section 4

This can be serious Scott so don't ignore it. Rich running shouldn't be smelt in the cabin - if you smell gas you have a leak or at least some weaping going on. A new to you car should have all the rubber hoses replaced. Minimally the high pressure ones but best all of them. It will only take a weekend but well worth the peace of mind. Most likely culprit for smell is the line between the tank and the steel lines running through the tunnel. You have to remove the tank from the car to replace them so they frequently get forgotten. If they are still the originals they will be leaking - not huge but enough to stink.

I will check that! All the lines at the back are all new. It would have to come from up front. Thanks again.

Scott

I adjusted the fuel pressure last night. It was pretty easy actually. It did change the idle a little and now it cuts out at all rpm ranges. I'm going to reset the timing tonight and hopefully that fixes it! I'll have to read up on timing again. I haven't done that in a while!

I set the timing again tonight and it is still not running right. I also changed the fuel filter and rechecked the gap on the Petronix. I can drive around fine if I don't try to get on it at 3000 rpm, if I do it falls flat on its face. The valves were set when it was rebuilt and rechecked before the motor went in. I haven't check them since though. I also need to check the advance plate on the distributor, I'm just not sure how to do that yet.

Before when I had the fuel pressure gauge on it and was driving around it dropped down to 20 or below when I got up to 3500 rpm. Is this normal? My dad is thinking the fuel pump is not working right, could that be it? Is there a way to test the fuel pump?

I'm going to drive it for now and hopefully we can figure this thing out. You guys have a lot a great input and I'll keep trying suggestions.

thanks

It's not getting enough fuel if you can let up and wait for it to get going. You either have a restriction going to the regulator or the injectors or the pressure is too low to feed enough volume to the injectors. You might have a tps problem but I would make sure the fuel supply is good first. When you first open the throttle the vaccum goes down and the map or maf says there is a lot of air so increase the fuel to even the mixture out. The fuel pressure regulator is usually what increases the fuel supply by reducing the return volume. I'm not educated on the various 914 fi systems but I'm just going by other fi systems. The thing is I wouldn't drive it too much as it is probably really lean when it is sluggish.

I lowered the fuel pressure to 29 but it was at 35 and still did the same thing. After I posted last night I got to reading more of Brad Anders info and one thing I haven't checked is the throttle switch. It was taken off when the engine was rebuilt. I found a great article on Pelican on how to check it and I'm going to work on it tonight. It does seem like a fuel problem but I have all rebuilt injectors, all new hoses in the back, a new fuel filter, and I've set the fuel pressure. The only thing I haven't done is try another fuel pump but I don't have another one to try that works. Hopefully the throttle switch is not set right. I will know more tonight.

Thanks!

A quick check is to unplug the air temp sensor. Thats kinda a old school way to fatten it up. If its better, you have a fuel problem. I wouldn't use this as a fix, as you are too lean to be safe.

Also, make sure you have the advance and retard vac lines correctly hooked up on the dizzy.

Check your fuel filter, and check the rubber fuel lines under the tank....

When we bought Papa Smurf way back when he was stock 2.0, we drove him from Denver to NJ. We had problems running up above 3000 rpm somwhere in Iowa, and we started to notice it really became a problem with a full fuel tank. We stopped at a service station, had the tank drained, pulled it, and found a crimped/weak fuel line. Replaced it and all was fine.

Now, fast forward to last year. Club Racing, I'm running well at Road Atlanta all weekend, and all of a sudden 3 laps into the enduro, I head up T1 and the car bogs down at full throttle. Once I get on the brakes, back and forth, it's fine, until I'm back on full throttle out of T5, then the back straight....

We spend months chasing plugs, wires, coil, rebuild carbs, etc until we check the filter and find it filled with gunk (no idea how since we run 110 race fuel). Works perfect ever since.

Your pertronix could be failing, just about the same thing happened to me. It will get worse. I went back to points. Through in points and condenser and see if that fixes it. Cheap and easy.

Tach bouncing up and down with the hesitation? My pertronix did that when it was on it's way out too. I'd step on the gas and nadda.

if the fuel pressure is dropping when the performance is dropping it really looks like you have a constriction or the pump is dieing. Most likely of course is a constriction. You've done the back end. Time to get to the front. You probably need to do the front fuel lines anyway so get the tank out and inspect it too. There is a mesh filter sock inside the tank on the supply line. They get gunked up over the years.

Thats not necessarily a slam dunk fix all solution but it is work that should be done anyway. You won't be wasting your time.

I replaced the cap and rotor last night and it didn't change anything but it was worth a shot. I'm also going to put the points and condenser back on to see if its my Petronix. I did notice 2 of my injector hoses are slightly kinked. Is there a source to get these already shaped? I tried the ones from AA before but they didn't work for me. I'm still going to get the tank cleaned and replace the front fuel lines. Can the mesh fiilter sock be cleaned or will I need to get a new one? My dad is also trying to find another fuel pump. I was able to drive it to work today! I just can't rev it up over 3000 rpms without problems!

thanks

Scott

I checked the front fuel lines today. Actually I pulled on one and a half a tank of gas started flowing out Once it was finally empty I got the tank pulled. What I found was a lot of rust! I could not believe how bad it was


So now I either need to figure out how to clean it or try to find a new tank. I think this might fix my problem. Any suggestions on how to clean a tank. I'd rather not spend the money on another one!

Thanks

Scott

You can take it to any place that fixes radiators. They will steem clean it out, then coat it with a sealant. Got mine done years ago.

FYI, I have an extra tank in pretty good shape - small amount of discoloration on the inside but no real rust or anything - that I'll sell for cheap if you want.

DIY alternative - http://www.por15.com/FUEL-TANK-REPAIR-KIT/productinfo/FTRK/ Probably would not save you much over having a rad shop do it for you. Rad shop also saves you having to dispose of the used chemicals.

Think about Bob's offer. All that rust came from someplace - you may have some thin spots.

Be sure you check the job the radiator shop does and tell them you want it all coated and that you will be using a mirror to check it out. They sometimes miss some spots and you can't tell unless you really want to know if it's a good job. If it's done right it should be forever. Restomotive has a great sealer but the prep is the real killer.

I finally got my tank put back in over the weekend but it still doesn't run right. I'm going to put the points and condenser back on and see if that fixes it. My dad still thinks the fuel pump is not keeping up.

All you have to do is hook a pressure gauge into the fuel rail and start reving the engine. If the fuel pressure drops from the target of 30 psi ... the fuel pump is on it's way out.

My old pump that was working before the engine was rebuilt started leaking when we put it back in. I found a used pump that we put in but I don't know how well it worked. I also have a pump that I know doesn't work so last night I took my good pump apart and replaced the O'rings with the ones from the pump that didn't work. I was surprised how much they had shrunk! anyways. I put the pump in and I can hear it run but the car won't start. I'm either really low on gas(which I am) or the pump isn't working right. I'm going to get more gas today and see if it will start. I put the tank back in and only put maybe 3 gallons it in. then I had it jacked up on the right side so I'm hoping it just wasn't getting fuel. Hopefully!

Is there a possibility that the fuel pump hoses are backwards, meaning you are supplying fuel on the return side of the fuel loop?

I rechecked them last night and seemed fine. I have the line from the tank on S. The return line on R, and the line going to the fuel pressure regulator is D. I think!

You have the orientation at the pump correct, but what I am referring to is from the "D" port you then supply fuel to the rails, and the last piece of hardware that fuel goes through before returning to the pump is the fuel pressure regulator. What I mean to say - is it possible that you have your "R" and "D" hose hooked up backwards?

Change that pertronix back to points! Let us know.

car is silver...that is the problem

did you ever go back and check all the electrical stuff? coil, ignition, pertronix (as SUNAB914 said).

I still need to pick up a set of points but everything else is ok.

I know before when I checked the fuel pressure while driving it would drop well below 20. I have it set at 29. If SLITS is correct then I would think it is the pump. After I get it running again and if the pump didn't fix it my next move is to go back to points. I will definitely try points before getting another fuel pump!

And......


Silver is the best color for these cars

You said the tank was full of rust. Did you put in a new fuel filter too? It would undoubtedly need changing if your tank had rust in it. Also make sure your fuel lines are clear and not crimped under the tank.
I'm betting the little knowledge I have that it's your fuel pump.

CONSTRICTION!!

That was the final problem. Initially I think the tank was just so full of rust that it wasn't getting enough fuel. Then when I put the tank back in I made the new hoses the same length as the old ones. Well when I put it back in one kinked. I thought they were ok but last night I rechecked them and one was kinked real bad! I shortened them up and put it back it and today it runs great

Thanks everybody for all your suggestions. It would probably still be sitting on jack stands without your help


Now its time to go for a drive


Thanks again

Scott

Congrats! Keep motoring and thanks for letting us know.

wow...that brings back memories that I completely forgot about...
When we bought Papa Smurf, (when he as just a little stock 2.0) we drove it from Colorado to NJ. We started having 'engine' problems every time we got hard on the gas. Of course NOBODY across the country really knew anything about a 914 - especially on Labor Day weekend. We made it as far as South Bend Indiana and called a local PCA newsletter editor to see if he could recommend some help. He diagnosed the problem from our descriptions, and fixed the problem: old kinked fuel line under the tank.

Off we went the rest of the way home.

Congrats in finding it. I never thought about our past issue to offer the advice...(its been 16 years ago now)