Took 1970 1.7 to mechanic to lookover for body/frame integrity after battery leak due to voltage regulator malfunction. Mechanic cleaned battery box (what was left of new one) with water and called to tell me car will not turn off. Had car for many years and never a problem.

Mechanic replaced ignition but still will not turn off. I replaced brain/computer which did not work either. Made sure grounds were clean but otherwise, at loss??? Any suggestions?

Considering putting a kill switch in and be done with it but prefer to figure out problem.

Your coil is getting 12V. Trace down the 12v coil wire and find out what shorted.

If he "turned it off" by pulling the battery cable, expect to replace the alt.

It's not just the coil, but the advice above is solid. Something's feeding power to somewhere in the fusebox where it's picked up by the keyed power circuits. The Cap'n

Putting a single-filament bulb into the rear turn signal bucket will result in an engine that keeps running mysteriously. Until you figure out that it's while the turn signal switch is indicating that one side, and realize that the "parking light" feature is feeding power back through the ignition.

--DD

That is genius! I wonder who found that out first..

Thanks to such quick responses and hopefully solving this mystery! Will try over the weekend. Left out the part that the turn signals stopped working. Thought this was another challenge for another day. Hopefully related? Car has been EXTREMELY reliable for years and years....not used to having any trouble with it. Again, many thanks.

I think it is kind of cruel of you to flaunt your running 914 when so many others can't get theirs to run. If you can't shut it off just keep driving. It will quit sooner or later, they all do!

Dave is still the king of the obscure yet factual knowledge...

That is pretty cool, almost makes me want to go read the wiring diagram....almost.

Dave, explain how a single element bulb would make this happen please..

Rich

It really sounds like the mechanic you used jumped to the conclusion that it wasthe ign. sw. It is a lot cheaper to find the 12vdc supply thats providing 12vdc to the coil. Just get a meter and start going back from the coil or jump ahead and take the 12 away from the ign sw. if it's that far back. I haven't looked at the 914 wiring but vw liked to get the 12vdc from the coil to supply the back up lights on the bug of the same year. It's like the back up light was a after thought and the coil was the closest switched spot for the supply to the bu lights.

If it was ok before the mech. got to it you might want to check that the alt. is not providing the 12v since that was the last thing messed with.

If there is more than one wire on the coil pull them off and check each one for the 12. If it only will happen while it's running pull them off one at a time to see which one is the culprit.

Just read you first post again. You had a voltage reg malfunction and the battery leaked. Did this malfunction by chance cause an over voltage situation? That would bubble over your battery alright. If so you might be chasing more electrical problems than just ignition.

The "buttons" that carry the power are in different places in the single- and dual-filament sockets. I believe that the single-filament bulb contact will touch both of the contacts in the dual-filament socket. That bridges those together.

When the one gets power sent to it via the "parking light" feature, it goes to the other circuit, which is tied into the ignition switch circuit. Which means it sends power to (among other things) the coil.

Puzzled the heck out of me when it happened! I figured it out mostly by un-doing the last thing I had done to the car before the weirdness started happening.

--DD

Wow, learning by screwing up, then understanding what went wrong so you don't do it again. That's a good concept. In fact it's brilliant! If I had only thought of that when I was younger I probably could have avoided a lot of broken bones...

I agree with the Cap and here is my guess;

Alternators have a circuit (wire) going to them that is the "energizer". When this line goes to 12v, and the alternator is turning, it puts out twelve volts in the the main circuit. When you turn off the ignition, at the key, the line should drop the 12v on the energizer and the alternator stops putting out voltage.

If the energizer line isn't hooked up seperately from other 12 volt lines, the alternator keeps feeding the system, and the car keeps on running.

Another way to say it is that the alternator "back feeds" it's self and keeps on putting out.

Wes

Not quite. There is always voltage on the system. Switches turn it on and off but the battery voltage is always available. The alternator applies voltage to the system when the engine is running and charges the battery. It usually puts out around 14 volts. It does this by getting field voltage from the voltage regulator. The field voltage is small (alot less than 12V) compared to the voltage generated.

If the regulator goes bad and applies too much field voltage the alternator will generate over 14V and start frying stuff. Conversely if it applies 0 volts to the field you don't charge your battery and you get stuck on the side of the road when your battery dies.

Put a temporary switch on the line coming out of the alternator.

With the car running, but the ignition "off", flip the switch and see if the car stops. If it does, then the alternator is "feeding" the circuit that goes to the coil.

Then take that temporary switch and put it in the line that energizes the alternator.

With the car running, but the ignition "off", flip the switch and see if the car stops.
If it does, then there is a problem with the "energizer" circuit.

Wes

On most cars with the indicator light on the dash it is the circuit through the light that energizes the alt. Without a good element in the light the alt won't charge. It's 12vdc but very small amps. The regulator adjust the charging through the other wire that is not the wire that goes straight to the battery. The big wire is the wire that is getting the big amps to charge the battery.

I was going to check out car over weekend but couldn't wait. Light bulb seemed too easy. I checked and I have single filament bulbs in both rear turn signal buckets. I have double filaments in the buckets closest to the center of the car (brake and tail light). I don't recall changing the turn signal lights before problem started? I pulled each bulb one at a time, started car and turned if off and car kept running. I am not a mechanic, fyi. Have changed brakes, tuned car, replaced clutch cable but not much beyond that, especially electronic. One thing that caught my attention from what you said is that you found the turn signal problem by re-tracing changes to car before problem started. Is it possible the new voltage regulator is faulty and continuing to energize alternator?

Thanks to everyone who has posted replys, even ConeDodger.

I don't think I ever met anyone that could put a single element bulb in a double element socket before. The bulb has two elements and is pretty obvious. This might be beyond our communication capabilities. I would check what the mech. did and make sure none of the wires have been changed on their plugs especially the regulator at this point.

But still a amp meter is the quickest way to find this problem. You may need on-site assistance.

I have an amp meter and some great ideas for starters. Mechanic was less than enthusiastic about helping me further. Pretty much told me it was not going to be his problem to figure out.

Start it up and don't stop till you get to hershey.

Better idea. Pack a coupla pair of underware and socks, your amp meter some tape and maybe a piece of 16 ga wire. Start it up and don't turn it off till you get to hershey.

I certainly don't have to worry about the turning it off part! Going to be a beautiful day here in PA for the swap meet and a drive down the beautiful PA turnpike.

shoot if you are in PA. you don't need any extra underware.

It is an easy day trip from where I live which is on north east side of Philly. Need to make sure my back lights are working properly first! Car not really driven over last year.

Me again. I started pulling wires off the coil. I had a white one on the + and green on - that each shut the engine off individually. The green goes to the distributor so it makes sense the white one is the source for the coil that continues to carry a charge. I did not see a white wire per wiring diagram to coil either. There is a white wire that goes to the Supplementary air valve that is a very close neighbor per the wiring diagram. I pulled the air filter and found a connection right on top of the motor directly below the filter. Seemed like a good spot for a Supplementary air valve but what do I know??!! It also was located very close to where the white wire comes out of the wiring harness. So, I plugged the white wire in and car continues to shut off with the key. I am ecstatic (to say the least) and take a test drive of about 5 miles on a hot day. I turn the car off and within a couple of minutes go to start it and it just turns over, no apparent spark. The coil is extremely hot, fyi, and don't ever recall it getting that hot while running in the past. I no longer have a car that will not shut off; I have a car that will not start. My neighbors got a kick out of it. I went to cover the car the next day and try and start just for the heck of it and voila, it starts right up. Obviously cannot drive car now since not sure when it will no longer start. Any thoughts? Does it appear I corrected the initial problem and now have a new one, or did I never really solve the original problem and have a new symptom.

As always, Thanks for any Ideas. Also unsure if this is the right place to put my addendum.

Tdi

This is the funniest damn thing I have seen in the past three years of following this board. Don't get me wrong, I religiously believe anything I see that comes from DD, but just the fact a single-element bulb could cause such a situation makes me call into question some of this great "German Engineering" I hear about!

Eric Read

Had a similar problem on a bug. My buddy hooked the coil up backwards. Double check + to + on the coil. They will work backwards but get mighty hot mighty quick.

The wiring diagram does not indicate which wires are positive side and which are negative. Anyone know? I have a red/black now hooked up plus and black/purple and green (to coil) hooked up on negative.

Eric Read...if I didn't know better, I would say you have a picture of my car on your ID.

tdi

That's the way it hooks up, the points and the tach to the (-) terminal, and power to the (+) terminal...

The white wire: Check for electrical continuity with the fuel pump fuse on the relay board. (I forget which of the two fuses it is.) If it has continuity, it's the AAR wire. Look for a red wire coming out of the bottom of the AAR, that is where it would plug in.

--DD

What is "AAR"? Also, what do you mean by continuity? Again, just a backyard mechanic here. thx tdi

AAR - Auxillary Air Regulator .... adds additional air on cold startup. It's powered on the same circuit as the fuel pump.

On a 2.0, there is a red lead that connects into the white lead on the engine harness.

On a 1.7, I don't know what color the lead is from the AAR ... schematic shows white ... I haven't owned a 1.7 in a LONG time.

I don't see an AAR on schematic that I have (Haynes). Assume then that is NOT same as Supplementary Air Valve? I hooked white wire up to valve directly below air filter close to motor as per prior note in this post.

Also, haven't owned a 2.0 in long time and more than willing to switch for awhile!

Thanks for response.

Tom

It is the same as the "Supplementary Air Valve". Either the Germans were drunk or the American translator was drunk and the Haynes people switch terms .... take your choice. In either case, it is known here as "The AAR"

On your car ... the wire should run from the SAV/AAR to pin 12 on the relay board (12 pin engine harness). Pin 12 on the relay board is tied to pin 13 on the main body harness (14 pin connector on relay board) which also is the fuel pump feed thru fuses and relays.

On page 40 .... it is item #5. On page 44, figure 2.12 you can catch a glimpse of it just above the cold start valve. On page 45, figure 2.14 is the AAR/SAV.

Yup!

Check for continuity with either an ohmmeter or a beeper. Unplug the wire at both ends (when possible) and put your two test leads on the ends of the wire. If your beeper goes beep, or the ohmmeter shows very low resistance, you have continuity.

A test lamp requires a bit more setup. My multimeter has a "diode tester" that beeps when current can flow between the test leads, so that is what I use.

--DD

Really appreciate your help! Will look Saturday. I noticed there is a reference on 2.14 on pg 45 as well. I assume this is independent of my coil over heating? If I did hook up correctly, certainly didn't notice any change in car performance. Again, thanks for your (very specific) help!

Thanks for the clarification. Will check on Saturday. This should not have anything to do with coil that is now, apparently overheating...correct?

Saturday update. I had connected the white wire (originally connected to coil by mechanic) to thermo switch not AAV/Supplemental Air Valve as previously reported. Still not sure what white wire goes to? Wiring diagram shows white wire into cold start valve and white wire out to thermoswitch. Cold start valve has two white wires into one connection in with no white wire out?

Could not tell from Haynes what thermoswitchc does and wonder what effect having on performance (if any) but guessing it is sensor for cold starts.

Ran for about 5-10 minutes and coil did not overheat and will continue to monitor.