Original ABS VW PORSCHE tooling found!!!!! We will be in production of factory like originals very very soon!!!!!!

Neat!!!

NICE GREAT FIND

I hope they are better than the fg rockers you sold me.

My former business partner, Fred Does, is the guy who designed those & sold the rights!!!
If you want more info, I'll give you his number...

we would certainly love to know the history. This aluminum vacuum mold probably cost a ton to make even back in the 70s!

Mitcom provided those for us. We too got disgusted with the supply and the quality so bought all of the molds and are now having our people make them.

And what "factory" would that be? The Cap'n

I just talked to Fred, you want to call him or have him call you??

Byron

These look like they are for flared cars

How long before you get a letter from the lawyers at Porsche?

I was thinking the exact same thing

Gotta ask Why? Didn't think these things were in any sort of demand.

Could you make them for non-flared cars and charge less than $500 a pair?

My observation!!

I have been waiting for a set on back order. So it looks like I will have to wait a little longer, but if you say the quality will be better, then they will be worth the wait. Thanks, John

I "think" these are what he has tooling for...

We had been relying on Mitcom for our abs as they had the rights to produce and owned the tooling. They actually had not made the raised letter rocker panels in abs plastic for a while but rather in fiberglass and the quality was going down hill. I was after them for two years to sell me the original aluminum vacuum form tooling and now they finally have done so. We are now going to make these in the original ABS plastic as did the vw audi organization when they offered them as a dealer option.
We are very excited about these original factory look pieces and will guarantee the quality to be very very high.

yes yes yes. Exactly

These are exclusively for the non flared cars. Although they have a flare on each end, they just come out enough to match the stock wheel well

Hmm, I'm probably in the minority here, but I think they'd look better without the word 'Porsche' on them.
But then again, nobody asked me.

When I bought the fg rockers at the same time as the flares I thought the rockers were advertised as good quality. The ends are nowhere near close to the shape of the flares. The ends might as well be straight. I expected getting the parts from the same place they would work together but thats certanily not the case. I will say that they do provide a starting point, but thats all. Also you mention that the new fg rockers have a texture to them where mine are gray primered that is flaking off of black gelcoat from the release agent that was not cleaned off before they were painted, who knows why they needed to be painted.

I really suspect that the new fg rockers are done from new molds you pulled from the rocker you modified to fit the cars you have added flares to. At least that seems to be the best answer.

George I'm sure you knew this when you sold them to me and all the others that bought them.

I guess those profits went toward the aluminum molds for these great quality rockers.

Thank you . Fred called and told me the whole story about their development and the sale to Porsche Audi and their production of the panels. Said that that aluminum mold we have was monstrously expensive. Glad someone did not throw it away! Still has the factory part number on the mold.

Thought that there was something wrong from the tone of your last couple of replies on different threads Charlie. We have for years purchased all of our fiberglass from Mitcom and were very loyal to them not wanting to dissuade a firm from making parts by competing with them. However as time went by and the firm changed hands, the quality and delivery time lessened and we the end retailer had to take the flack. The crucial part of all of this is that they owned the so called Porsche Audi factory ABS rocker panel molds, but had discontinued making them in ABS, only fiberglass. We were dependent on them to supply the parts. Finally after lengthy negotiations, we were able to buy what was left of their molds so that we could make the parts and and also correct molds that were not quite right. Included with those molds was the one and only aluminum vacuum form buck for the ABS rocker panels. When I say factory I mean the old Porsche Audi organization who had the aluminum mold made years ago and produced the parts. These ABS rocker panels with the raised letters were made to fit a stock fendered car only and to go OVER the factory steel rocker panels, using the steel panels for support of the abs plastic. It was quite an appearance perk to 914s of the area and many many dealers sold many many pairs.
The GT rocker panels (these are the ones MADE for the flares) we purchased from Mitcom during the time you purchased were their mold their part and we had no alternative back then. We have since produced a panel from the original factory GT flared panel and it is acceptable. Like any fiberglass part though if the part is ok it is still up to the trimming and the finisher to make it acceptable.

So if I read this right, Porsche Audi had the molds made, and then sold them.

If they did, then they can't bitch too much if somebody sells parts made from their former tooling with the "P" name on them......

Well the fact is I'm really just glad someone can make a living supporting a car this old. Those rockers I got will work if they don't bubble when I start painting them. I will just reshape the ends to match the flares after the flares are like I want. The fg rockers aren't the first and won't be the last misshaped fg parts I will buy I'm sure.

The only flared car I've seen in person is Clay Perrine's car and he did say the rockers were steel. It looked really nice so I have a idea of what a challenge the fg ones are going to be.

Maybe my question wasn't clear. What "factory"? I worked at a dealership for a while in the 70s, and have been good friends with a number of dealer parts department guys for literally decades. No one I've spoken with has ever seen anything like you show in the picture coming from Porsche. Many dealerships sold a number of aftermarket accessories, and some may have sold these. I can't imagine the Porsche factory ever producing these things, although they may have licensed the use of their name to the original producer. Kinda seems doubtful, though, what with how tacky they are and all..................... Alan Mittelman did some interesting stuff, back in the day, and some of it kinda closely danced around trademark issues.

The Cap'n

"Porsche Audi" didn't "have the molds made". Porsche and Audi are TWO different companies. They've ALWAYS been two different companies. They formed a joint marketing venture for a while, but NONE of the product was intermingled, other than fabrication of the 914 by VW, but that was merely "outsourcing", just like the 924 (one of Audi's factories) and the Boxster (Valmet in Finland) and the 928 auto tranny (Mercedes Benz). Besides, they "could" bitch about it, because, while they might no longer own the molds (which they never did), they still own the name. The Cap'n

Fred is a neat guy, has some cool designs too... He would be a good asset for design & other kits.

So Captain,

Maybe my memory is faulty but I do believe there was a period of time where VW Porsche and Audi were all one big happy family making cars together....

Specifically, during the 1970's.....

Remember the Porsche 924? That was a joint effort between all three. The 924 Engineers were allowed to loot parts from the bins of VW, Porsche, and Audi.

Lessee.. We gots a 4 banger VW designed Audi built engine intended for a discontinued truck, a 924, and the AMC Gremlin...

We gots seats and an instrument pod from a Scirrocco ....

Hows about those Beetle rear trailing arms and rear drums, if I recall correctly...

Bundle them together in a swoopy body in the Audi factory (the Porsche plant was at capacity) with a rear transaxle and torque tube and you get a Porsche 924.

So yes, they did play together. Now, did marketing or the factory get together to make the rockers?? I don't know because I wasn't there....

So we still don't know.

Absent other evidence definitely gotta go with the Cap'n on this one. Dealers used to sell lots of aftermarket stuff that wasn't from the factory, and those look WAY too cheesy to be from Porsche themselves. Too cheesy to be from VW or Audi, either, for that matter, especially if the tooling was made locally by a guy named "Fred".

When you say "factory" the inference is Porsche AG, but that definitely doesn't feel right. Please, George, resolve this question for us. What "factory" are you referring to exactly?

Gotta go with Cappy on this one. Besides, why exactly would an aluminum vacuum form be here in the U.S.? Something about this doesn't feel quite right. I can't see Porsche building tooling for a rocker panel that fits OVER the factory unit. Given that they already had the exact dimensions of the stock steel rocker panel, it would've been much easier (ask me how I know) to make a stand alone part that REPLACED the stock steel rocker panel. ABS was a viable material used extensively on automobiles in the mid 70's (again, ask me how I know), but not usually on the exterior of the car. ABS has terrible weathering characteristics (and we knew this back in the 70's). Granted, the rockers are mounted low on the car, and wouldn't see much direct sunlight, but still, you just didn't see it much on the exterior of cars.

If you were to use these molds again, I'd suggest asking a materials engineer/scientist to suggest something other than ABS. With the advancements in material technology, ABS would be a poor choice to go back to. Persoanlly I'd go with TPO (thermoplastic olefin), which has exceptional weathering characteristics, low CLTE (expansion and contraction), great impact properties, could be painted and can be recycled.

All of this might be a moot point anyhow. You have to have a thermoformer to use ABS (or TPO for that matter) to heat the material and pull a vacuum. I'm guessing that the lack of this vital and extremely expensive piece of equipment needed to produce the part is what led to the last company making them in fiberglass.

Porsche owns their name and it wouldn't matter who owns the tooling. Produce these with the Porsche name on them and a "cease and desist" letter would get inked fairly quickly...

Guys,

They may have never come from Der Fatherland, but do you think a cheezy used car salesmen.... Er I mean Porsche US Marketing Guru would pass up a chance to tack on another piece of crap, er I mean high profit margin item onto a car as a way to boost sales and profits???

914 with mudflaps.... yup...

914 with Porsche negative stripes... ditto...

914 with other stripes... check...

"High Quality Sports Wheels" (aka cheap Rivera's for big money)... check

Non factory radio... check...

Different Front Spoilers check......

Wood stickshift knobs... check....

"Special" edition car with brightly painted wheels... check

Special protective coating for paint- $399.99 (armorall) check...

Let's find out what the guys that know about this tooling have to say. They were there, or knew somebody who was, and WE weren't.

Just because Porsche, Audi, & VW worked together doesn't mean that they were one company. Just because you slept with your secretary doesn't mean you were married to her, you probably weren't.

That's exactly the question on the table, Ken, who made them. George says they're "factory", so he apparently knows. Usually when you say a part is "factory" you're saying it's OEM. So we're asking him exactly whose factory he's referring to.


OMG how did you find out? Holy crap, does my wife know?

No, but the boyfriend does, and he is a big boy too

Don't care how big and mean the boy is, I'd survive. I'm a lot more afraid of my ex-wife... and her tiny little lawyer....

The 924 was designed by Porsche (they are, after all, an engineering and design company that also makes cars) to be produced by Audi. They were disinclined to do so, and Porsche picked it up. It was still built by Audi. There is little, if any, Porsche content in that car. The seats don't even remotely resemble those in a Scirocco, BTW. In fact, they're cheap copies of 911 seats. The Cap'n

Well, Porsche designed the 924 for VW, it was meant to be the Scirocco, but after the VW/Porsche falling out in 76, Porsche used what Type IV engines that they were committed too for the 912E and kept the 924. They used Audi brakes )4 on 108, disc fron and for the 1st time since 64, drums in the rear) VW Super Beetle struts, the seats were the same basic Recaros used in the 911, some 924s had VW steering wheels, others had 911 style (but with a VW rabbit spline), VW rabbot ign. switch too. If you look at a 924/early 944 tranny, you will see where the starter would go (in a front wheel drive car) and you can take the rear control arms off a 924 & 944 and BOLT them right up to a 68 & up Bug...

Back to the subject, Fred has talked to George, and I'll let them straighen up any questions on the rockers...

I totally agree with the Cap's comments about it being a "factory" part.

My guess woud be that the term "factory authorized option" would be better and that could still be questionable.

Maybe "dealer installed option" would be better.

I think George is dancing on thin ice calling it a "factory" part and could be misleading his customers.

Wes

Yea, but it did come from a "factory"!

So; if manufactured by Kia, it qualifies as a "factory" part.

Cool. It's now worth more money.

Wes

Regardless of which factory these were from. The tooling is cast aluminum, which is the proper way to for the ABS, as you need it to draw the heat away quickly. This type of tooling should yield high quality parts.

"Tacky", but "high quality". Just what you need ......................

The Cap'n

has is become cool to say these are tacky? I have had at least 10 sets of these come and go. every time I put some up for sale, they go quickly for top dollar. I dont think they are tacky untill you paint the letters. the fit on every set was always good, better than any other aftermarket body panel Ive ever futzed with. I see them battle worn due to poor mounting

...hard core keyboard commandos....

I think they're more cheesy than tacky, but when you say "tacky" or "cheesy" you're really only talking about personal taste. There's no right or wrong when it comes to that, everybody knows what they like and what they don't, so everybody's car ends up looking different than everybody else's.

I personally think they're cheesier than a pannini, but you know at least 10 customers who don't agree with me. Not a problem. And I'm sure George will find lots of others who will like them too. I just want to know why he described them as "factory". Of course they come from "a" factory but it is "the" factory? I think I know the answer but since I don't know for sure I'm waiting to hear George's explanation.

I used to think anything stuck on for looks that had no function was tacky but I'm sure there must be a example of that not being the situation.

Now you are really showing your age cap'n!!!! Think hard and try to remember and it will then dawn on you that they were in the accessory catalog from vw audi and offered by all of the Porsche dealers to new 914 owners as well as existing ones. Only later did Alan Mittleman buy the molds and begin to make the parts himself. Please look up part number zpw201917 as stamped into the mold (or 916!)

http://members.rennlist.com/914_collectibl...o_76VPC2-02.jpg

yup! one thing i have learned with my shop is that what the customers want is often contrary to my thoughts. I am a function over cosmetics kind of guy...just look at my 2.0 and V8. ugly but haul ass. most customers I find wanting their cars to look good is higher priority than all the mech sweetness that drives me.
tacky like pbj (my 2.0)
cheesey like a philly cheese steak (rayco v8)

...back on topic. I would like to hear from teh guy who made them