Hello to all. I purchased a 75 Bumble Bee and want to convert it to a six. I spoke with Motor Miester on their 2.0 six's and wanted to know if anyone has dealt with them or if you have any other recomendations. I am new to the 914 community, but I do know I want to make this one a six ,she's very solid and looks great too.
(Can you tell I'm a proud papa).

Welcome and Whoaa, a 75 Bumble Bee? Hmmm, since they only made them in 74 this is interesting. Maybe a copy or ?

Motor Miester doesn't have the best rep in the Porsche world and the conversion are done all the time by someon this board. The correct parts alone cost $4500, oil tank, lines, motormount, flywheel, etc. So when you go cheap thats what you get is cheap.

Installing a 2.0l six is a waste of time in IMHO, atleast a 3.0L or a 3.2 is the way to go. Find one )3.0l or 3.2) out of a wrecked car with low miles (100k) and use that for a six conversion. These motors are going for $3000 to 5000 and shouldn't need any rebuilding until 200k.

If you just want the orginal 110 hp you can get that from a 2.0L four and save alot of money.

Geoff

Do what you want with the car...it's yours. But it's not a REAL bumblebee if it's a 75.

As to Motor Meister.....do a search here and on pelican parts.com board. You will get an ear/eyeful of horror stories.

Yea I know, but the color is right and thats what I wanted.

Hey, Ronnie, congratulations on your find! No worries on the "authenticity" of your bumblebee, converting it to a six is less of a sacrilege ! What counts is you found a SOLID specimen dressed up the way you like it.

Ditto on the suggestion to find yourself a nice 3.2 to drop in. Easy conversion (BTDT), trouble free engine (more driving, less wrenching), stock EFI starts in ALL weather. Just remember to buy some lip balm when you're done, 'cause yer gonna have a permanent grin on your face from then on! Hint: when you find that 3.2, try to get the complete engine harness (hooks up btwn the brain, FI, sensors. Makes the effort MUCHO easier.

So,ya wanna six eh!
First there is no such thing as a cheap conversion.
You'll find most people here will agree it'll be at least 5-10 large to get it rolling.That means,if ya paid 3-4000 for your car already,you'll have 12-15,000 in it when complete.Then, your car will be just a conversion.You can already buy a 2.0l 6r in that price range,and you'll have the real deal,and no hassle about making everything work.
The conversion only begins to make some,financial sense if you opt for a bigger motor w/ more hp's.
More hp's mean more money.More work,more effort.
Most guys probably put 15k in there cars,a few grand here and there at a time.Moving up to 3.0l plus engines to get a really good seat of the pants feeling car.Then you'll be havin fun.
I'm 12-14k and 5yrs. into my 6r.All I have to show so far is a nice looking restoration garage queen.Patience is the key word for doing all this work,I'm finally lookin at the light at the end of the tunnel.
You can have it to but think out the process entirely about what ya want before ya spend any bucks.Then have the patience to see it thru.
Ron

also define your use, street car for fun, daily driver, Drivers ed or full race????
3.2 some brakes and suspension and you will have one hell of a weekend warrior for street and a great de car........heat and air and a near concours finish is a whole other ball game...

Oh for you six guys wanting heat, I saw on the German Ebay a set of perfect HE's for auction.

Geoff

I will disagree (somewhat) with the mainstream here, and recommend an earlier motor (2.0 through 2.7) if you can find a good one. The earlier ones are lighter, and the swap is easier. They also don't tend to make enough torque to wear out a stock 914 gearbox, unlike the 3.2 motors (and the 3.0 motors to a lesser extent). That, BTW, is the main reason that the swap is easier--you can use the stock gearbox and you only have to buy an early 911 flywheel ($$) instead of the 3.0+ conversion flywheel ($$$) or swapping in a 915 box ($$$$).

The problem is finding a good early motor. The most enjoyable of the pre-78 motors are the most highly-stressed, and they tend to lead short and hard lives. (Except for the regular US-spec 2.7s, which were not all that fun and also led short and hard lives due primarily to the smog junk put on them.) But if you can find a 69-73 "E" or "S" motor that has a fairly recent rebuild, it will be a lot of fun in a 914 and should last a while.

A rebuild on any 911 engine will run you at least $6K. And that assumes you do most of the "grunt work" yourself. So a "cheap" 911 engine is usually more expensive than one that costs more initially.

If you're looking for a much more bulletproof engine, spend the extra cash and get the 3.0 911SC motor. Get the conversion flywheel for the stock transmission, be nice to the tranny (particularly in 1st gear!!). If you can get the CIS injection to fit, it will be a great daily driver and should start and run happily no matter what. If you go to carbs, you'll make more power but the motor will be much more tempramental. But fun!!!

The 3.2 is the choice when you need EFI, instead of the funky fluid-operated CIS. They don't seem to be quite as bulletproof as the 3.0 motors, but they do make more power and have the more modern engine management system. And it is a better idea to go with the 915 gearbox with one of these...

--DD

Dave's comments are well-considered. I essentially went his route except I collected pieces for a 2.7 over time. It's built according to Bruce A's specs, which should be good for ~210HP. All total I bet I do have $5-6k into the motor, but that's completely rebuilt with induction. It should last a good long time. The problem with the mag-cased 2.7's was largely due to the thermal emissions control devices required in the mid-70's.

Thanks for all the help. I'm sure I'll get a lot of good info from this site.

Ronnie J

I'll echo Dave's comments. I used to have a '73 914 with a 2.4 911T engine in it, and it make enough torque to make first gear entirely superfluous (as in, anything more than half throttle, no matter how gently you did it, would light up the tires). Oddly enough, Dave has actually seen this car, though I don't know that he ever saw it in one piece (I sold it to a friend of his, engine out of the car in need of a rebuild, no idea if said friend ever completed that project).

I would expect a 3.0 to require flares and wide tires, and a spare gearbox ready to take over when the original one lets go. The stronger 915 gearbox weighs twice as much as the 901, in addition to being a very expensive swap.

The sixes sound fabulous, but they're quite pricey. That huge fan aimed right at the firewall also raises a deafening racket. A Big Four can give you most of the power for much less money, much less hassle, and much less noise. After having gone down the Six route once, I'm going to stick to a Type IV for my new-to-me '71. I probably won't stick with a 1.7, but I'm not going to swap in a Six.

I know a few 3.2s that run around with 205s under "rolled" stock fenders, and do not have excessive problems. Having wider tires is nice, obviously, but I don't think is strictly necessary with a 3.2 or a 3.0, if you use fairly grippy rubber.

I probably should leave the big-four vs. six thing alone, because it's been debated a whole buncha times... But I feel compelled to stick my oar in.

The four is lighter, bolts right in, costs a little less, and won't last as long. (Figure 100K miles as a maximum, and you'll have to have the heads redone at ~50K.) It can be rebuilt for a fairly reasonable sum.

The six (I'm talking a 3.0 here) is heavier, requires much more work to install, costs only a little bit more (sometimes less, in fact!!), makes more power, and lasts much much longer. (The 3.0s, unless the head studs break, seem to be half-million-mile engines. Even if you have to have the heads done at a quarter-million miles, that's still pretty good...) It will cost much more to rebuild.

Both have their places.

--DD