If you do a conversion to a 76 car in CA, which requires smog checks do you know how the law works in regards to smog? As I recall there's some fine print if the motor is newer or older than than car it's going in (76)?? I still need to talk to the DMV for their version, but I always like to know the answers to my questions before I ask them.
Thanks

To the best of my knowledge you have to comply with whatever smog was required for the actual engine in your car. If you backdate you have to comply with the year of the car and if you install a newer one you comply with the newer regulations. In other words the emissions can never get worse than the original engine.

The engine has to be the same year or newer.

It has to be what carb considers a "car" engine, not "truck" engine! (a Cayanne engine wouldn't be allowed)

All equipment that is smog related to the engine has to be present and working.

Any aftermarket items on the engine must have a CARB EO number on it and be for the installed engine.

So;

If you swapped in a Chevy V8 that had a smog pump and air injectors, they you would have to install them.

If you swap in an engine that came with fuel injection, then the complete EFI system has to be installed. You can NOT modify the computer in any way! (this is a major problem with some late motor swaps)


The best place to get information on a specific swap is to talk to the State Referee that will be certifying your installation. You can get the phone number to contact the central office at any smog check station. Call them and ask for the address for the one near you. (if they will not give out the address without setting up an appointment, go to Hondatech.com and post up the question about location there)

Go by the Referee and wait until he has time to talk to you. Then just ask your questions. Don't waste his time. Have specifics as to what you want to do. They are pretty helpful, but don't have a lot of spare time.


I've been through the process when I did an engine swap in a Honda I had.

Wes

Close. I believe the rule is the emissions equipment goes with the engine or the car, whichever is newer. In effect, that basically prevents you from using an engine earlier than the car. The Cap'n, BTDT

Cap;

I don't agree at all!

However, as I said in my post; the Referee is the final judge. Ask there before spending money based on what somebody said on the net. (man, I'd love to put a 1969 DZ block Z28 302 in a 914)

Wes

To make things even more fun, interpreting emissions laws is somewhat like the bible. It's just vague enough that two people can read the same thing and get very different meanings.

For instance, some will tell you that the transmission and fuel tank are part of the emissions system. Therefore, if you have an engine that came with an automatic, then the converted car needs to have one too. Then, there's the fuel tank. It's certainly part of the emissions system, so you better figure out how to fit that in your car as well.

Not everyone is like that. If you get a tough referee, the best bet is to find another one.

Oh, and some states won't allow you to change gear ratios or tire size from the donor vehicle. The convoluted logic being that you would alter the driving dynamics and use more fuel, etc.

This IS true if you do it the right way AND the inspection people know / care. Reasonable (and sometimes unreasonable) things get by. Also, I believe once a year 500 exemptions are passed out in Sac for non-passing unoriginal cars (a friend of mine had a Cobra kit car exempted) but bring your sleeping bag.

Lastly, I think what the '76 owner wants to do is bypass smog and enjoy the car. '76 cars currently require CA smog. There's no way around it. The best you can do is fix the pump, give it a shot, and work within the process. Talk with Rich at HPH too. He may have some advice.

Here is a link to the California Air Research Board web site.

CARB website

About 2/3 down you will find the following section;




Engine Changes

Engine changes are legal as long as the following requirements are met to ensure that the change does not increase pollution from the vehicle:

The engine must be the same year or newer than the vehicle.

The engine must be from the same type of vehicle (passenger car, light-duty truck, heavy-duty truck, etc.) based on gross vehicle weight.

If the vehicle is a California certified vehicle then the engine must also be a California certified engine.

All emissions control equipment must remain on the installed engine.

After an engine change, vehicles must first be inspected by a state referee station. The vehicle will be inspected to ensure that all the equipment required is in place, and vehicle will be emissions tested subject to the specifications of the installed engine.


Wes

This is true, however it only applys to "replica" kit cars. A Beck 550 would be valid, as would a Lotus 7 kit car.

Wes

Years ago I got bit by this one.

I had a 69 Camaro and put a manual transmission in it. For some reason, during that year, the automatic cars didn't have an air pump system. The cars that came with a four speed did have the pump.

The shop doing my smog check wanted me to put in the smog pump system due to the fact it had a manual transmission in it at the time of the check.

I was able to talk them out of it.





Another "fun fact" dealing with engine swap limitations is that you have to mount the engine in the same orientation as original. In other words, if it was originally mounted transversly (side to side) then you couldn't mount it longtudinally.

As an example; the VW VR6 engine only came from the factory mounted transversly, You couldn't legally bolt it up to a 901 transmission.

Wes

Cap;

Thanks for the yield!

Wes

A smog inspection station tried to make my dad drill holes in his aluminum thunderbird valve covers on his 57. The car came from the factory with the engine dress up kit and a chrome breather. He went down the road to the next guy, and he passed it no problem. Told my dad no way he would have anyone drill 500.00 valve covers. BTW, thats back when you had to get one smog check on any car you purchased, no matter what year.

Because I'm doing an LS1 swap, I frequent the LS1TECH forums where there's a section dedicated to conversions. These guys are are very knowlegeable when it comes to stuff like this and generally align themselves with what Wes writes. In the case of an LS1 swapped into a late car, basically everything's got to be hooked up just like the donor car including fuel tank evap, charcoal cannister, DBW if so equipped, AT (auto trans) PCM cannot be re-programmed to a MT, and I'm quite sure if the exhaust system is a single outlet, then so too must be the swap. Also as Wes stresses, the referee is your best friend; an aquaintence did a Chevy LT1/944 swap that required all the emissions goodies and mentioned the same thing. He ended up being certified, but it took three separate trips before everything was right. His comment was: make it look as stock as possible otherwise it brings things into question.

Andys

What happened to the 30 year old exemption?

We moved to So. Cal from colo and found the newer car vs. newer engine routine, I brought in a '75 with a '69 motor.... but the car was only 28 years old at the time so I kept it registered in Colo. That can get sticky if you get pulled over, luckly we still had an address in Colo!
They told me though that once it was 30 years old It wouldn't matter- but we moved before then.

Hey! No problem. If I'm wrong, I'm the first to admit it. I'm not overcome with the need to be right, no matter what ............... And thanks again for the research!

The Cap'n

It's history. (I'm old enough to remember it)

Currently, here in California, a car that is a 1975 (and that even varies some) isn't required to go in for a smog check. A 1976 would have to go in every other year.

Now here is the rub; That doesn't mean that you can remove any smog equipment on pre 76 cars!! It just means that the State isn't going to check.

However, let's say that you have a 73 that is totally stock, but you put Webers on it. A pissed off cop could tag the car as modified and as such you would have to go to the Referee to have it checked.

That's pretty much a worst case thing, but could happen. To pretend it can't is just sticking your head in the sand.


(Ya, aspects of California really suck)

Wes

BTW: The California "30 Year Exemption" was modified a few years ago to the 1975 and earlier year exemption. 1976 and newer model years are provided no exemption, regardless if they're 30 years old or older.

Eric Read

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...641&hl=smog

I hoping that maybe... just maybe with Jay Leno no longer doing the Tonight Show he will get bored and decide that he wants to tackle this at a higher level, it was Leno who made a public uproar about this last time. It's going to take someone like that with big $$$ and a high profile to get the public to realize that the number of cars on the road 30 years and older is so small that that they have little effect on the environment. Also that any 30+ year old cars that are streetable are owned by collectors who keep them fine tuned and not in a "gross polluting" state of disrepair which are the cars the current laws are going after.

Sorry to bring up a point of contention, but I see a number of 30+ year old cars on the I-5 every day that are on their last legs. Some are "smokers" and some just look like they're about to fall apart. While the folks on this board take extreme pains to ensure our '75 and older teeners are in top condition, this is not always true for all older cars.

Eric Read

I don't doubt that at all... in fact the day I drove to the SMOG facility I was in my driveway doing last minute fine tuning and a late 60's Chevy truck drove by leaving a huge black oil cloud in its wake.
However my guess.. and I stress the word guess.. is that if you rounded up all of those vehicles and compared the pollution output to all the Jane Soccer Moms in their Hummer H2's on an equal drive time basis... let's say a 45 minute commute... the sheer number of Soccer Mom's would make the old crusty cars polution levels look prety small.
Then take into account the number of miles one of those crusty vehicles could ACTUALLY drive. Also as you mentioned those cars are on their last leg and if their owners aren't the wrenching type then they will be off the road permanently soon.

Take a look at who was behind Sally Lieber's bill, and who helped provide the statistics, oil companies and car manufacturers, and as we all know those companies have one motivation... profit. Removing old cars means people have to buy new ones, and in 2002 what were most people buying??? Gas guzzling SUV's.
2002 was also the same year that Senators backed a bill trying to exempt pick-up trucks from fuel efficincy standards citing that they are primarily work vehicles even though 70 percent of pickups are used for personal transportation, 8.3 percent are used for construction and 4.6 percent are used in agriculture.

Lieber and her staff had good intentions and I don't doubt that many of the air quality standards that were raised with her bill have helped our environment. But as fas as the 30 year SMOG exemption goes... I have my doubts.

Uh, OK. How's you're buddy Al Gore doing?

There was a discussion on another email list that I'm part of that just recently (within the last few weeks possbily) things have gotten easier. While you still have to abide by the laws, the inspection is either not part of the deal any more or it has gotten easier. Apparently there is an 'interview' now where they ask you about the conversion. Unfortunately I don't have any more information than that, but there must be a thread on a forum somewhere talking about it.

-Tony

The wording "interview" is interesting.

My feeling is that when you take a car into the Referee, they are sizing up you, as much as the car. I'm an old guy and when I took in the Honda (Acura drivetrain swap) I think the Referee felt I was somebody that would do it correct and not try to sneak stuff by him.

I know a lot of younger guys that are into Honda swaps and I'd bet that they don't get treated as well as I was.

He didn't get as much into my car as I know others have.



As for "old car smog requirements", here is my two cents.

Not all old cars are taken care of. Some are pieces of junk that are all the person can afford.

But it's all percentages. Is it really worth chasing after what is a small percentage of the total amount of cars out there.

I do feel that if a cop sees any car polluting, he should write it up and it should be required to be fixed or taken off the road.

Wes

Honestly I don't think the year of the car should even come into it. I think all cars should be required to pass smog unless the owner pays an additional fee each year to register it. An extra $500 fee every two years instead of smog inspections would allow enthusiasts with late models to enjoy them, and would get people with old beaters to either cough up the dough ( which they won't ) or clean up their act.

It would be just that simple. Comply with emissions standards or pay up. None of this dancing with the inspectors crap on nice cars.

Standards change over time.... in our case, they get tougher. When I had to get my '74 smogged, no one would touch it.

Additionally, older cars pollute more mainly through oil consumption. Add the incentive of paying for smog tests, and the state and local benefits (taxes) of getting people to buy new / used cars more frequently, and BINGO, you have the legislation we have. You can choose for yourself whether it has more to do with clean air or state and local economic needs.

I personally believe there's no free rides in life either, but this is America where you can work hard for everyone else or slide....

ref's are human. years back i had a 67 mustang swap aproved, turns out my wife had to take it in. she was frazzled and i think i got away with murder. 400M, (i bought the car this way) with a edlebrock and mech. choke holley (not hooked up), open p.c.v. system, no smog pump or gulp valve AND out of a truck. never the less i got a door tag.

rule #1... send the car in with a young dazed female driver
#2... kiss arss

mike

Engine swaps in Cali are not easy. Cheaper to get a pre 74 car.

I put a 92 Subaru SVX EG33 in my 86 Vanagon Pickup.

When I first showed at the reg station one of the techs walked right up to me and said no way, incorrect drivetrain configuration. Engine in rear vs Front of original car. I jokingly said I could drive in in reverse gear. He was not amused and fortunately I got another tech. Initially they failed me. After 2 hours of climbing all over it and making me explain a bunch of stuff it came down to my check engine light was not labelled and I had a "incorrect exhaust configuration". Header and single cat vs original exhaust manifold and 3 cats. So I took my lumps, went home and hung the original exhaust under the truck, huge mess. Got out my label maker for the CEL and passed the 2nd time.

They check everything, evap purge, computer codes, stored and current, gas tank vapor leaks, egr functioning, you name it.

Its easier if you have a OBD 1 engine because they dont have the readers to check if the donor motor came from a automatic or if its a cali motor. If you use a OBD II motor they have the reader and may check.

The vanagon guys go though this all the time and the ref station is a crap shoot. Some are easy and some are tough but you better be in the ball part as far as the rules or its a no go.

In retrospect I would not do it again.

Daron

I put an EJ22 into a Vanagon Westy Syncro, but the Sacramento referee station failed me for using a non-CARB certified SmallCar header. I had to do the same thing you did by cobbling together a Suby exhaust abomination, and labeling the check engine light I mounted on the steering column. It passed about a month later.

They wouldn't give me the opportunity to describe the conversion during the initial inspection, and they completely ignored me when I pointed out that the Suby engine was MUCH cleaner than the VW Wasserboxer it replaced. What a crusty old fart the first guy was; the younger guy was much more pleasant... but I think he lusted after the relatively rare Westy Syncro.

Glad my Suby-powered 914 project won't have to pass smog to get registered, but it technically could be required to pass if a tightwad law enforcement officer sees fit to give me grief...

Geoff

That's funny I did a Honda swap in about 90-91. I took an 84 civic and swapped in an 86' Acura integra engine and trans (that wiring harness was a HUGE job - carb to FI.) Everything was as stock and it looked totally stock. The referee accused me of cheating and said I was justed BSing him and trying to get away with having no air pump (the Acura didn't have one the honda did) he also said that engine is not an Acura engine - it says HONDA on the valve cover! After getting proof (pictures of Integra engines) he finally said it was OK and that the swap was very well done. That was a very fun car, I had to trim the speedo needle because it kept hitting the stop! Too bad I fell asleep and killed a tree and the car one night (damn near me to.)