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Nor.Cal.914
While in the process of doing a brake bleed I noticed an air bubble in one of the lines from the master cylinder reservoir. I have my gas tank pulled right now so I am able to see the lines all the way down through the body where they meet with the master cylinder. The bubble is roughly 1/4 to 1/2 inch in length and sits right in the flat spot before the lines bend downwards to pass through the body into the master cylinder. To try and fix the problem, we used a vacuum bleeder to try and create vacuum at the left front caliper. (I'm using the left front since it is the shortest distance from the master cylinder) I then pumped the pedal up after there was a bit of vacuum in the bleeder and opened the bleeder screw. The bubble moves down the line towards the master cylinder when the bleeder screw is open, but once the screw is closed again and I pump the pedal again the bubble comes right back to where it was before. I also tried just normal bleeding of the brakes by pumping the pedal and opening the bleeder screws, but the bubble doesn't even move when I bleed them the normal way. Also, when I sit and pump the pedal up and down the bubble moves back and forth probably an inch in total. And when I do the normal bleeding of all the calipers there is a constant flow of fluid; no air at all confused24.gif

Soooo... does this mean my master cylinder is allowing air to come back into my lines? Would it be an internal leak possibly between one of the pistons? I'm not exactly sure how the master cylinder comes apart on these cars, except for what I'm shown in my manual. Could it be that the two lines coming from the reservoir are leaking at the point where they meet the top of the master cylinder via those two rubber "plugs"? Something has to be allowing air back in making it impossible to remove that bubble! Anyways, let me know what you guys think sad.gif Thanks
-Chris
jcd914
It is possible to run the reservoir low while bleeding the brakes or if the pads were worn down a lot and get air bubble in the supply line. It is also possible to get the air bubble caught in the supply line in the semi flat section. What happens is that brake fluid flow around the air bubble while bleeding. In the flat section of the supply line the bubble clings to the top of the tube and the fluid flow under it. It does not quite flow under as fast as you are bleeding so the bubble moves down toward the master cylinder but does not quite make it as the supply tube angle get steeper. As soon as you stop the flow from bleeding the bubble moves back up as the fluid flows around it.
I have had good luck by slapping the brake pedal over and over again very fast. You want to create very short pressure pulses, the bubble will move back a forth very quickly but usually it will move up stream a little each time and will end up going back to the reservoir.
Since you have the tank out you may be able to just flex the tube and increase the angle so the bubble flows up and back to the reservoir.

good Luck

Jim
jaxdream
Drain your resivor tank , detatch the offending line , try inserting a small gauge wire down to where the bubble is and try to break it up or cause it to rise to the top of the tube .Easy at this point and costs are with the wire and brake fluid.

Jaxdream
Nor.Cal.914
QUOTE(esses62 @ Jun 7 2009, 07:20 PM) *

Wow, I wish my gas tank was out when I changed my master. Those damn headbang.gif resevoir lines were a beyotch to get back in without leaking. Don't know why you have a bubble in your line. Did you try reseating the tube and trying to reproduce the bubble?


Big thing I forgot to mention earlier; while bleeding the brakes the normal pump the pedal way, there was a point when I was getting small air bubbles coming up from the master cylinder. I figured it was one of the rubber "plugs" at the top of the master cylinder where those reservoir lines meet with it so I wiggled them around a little bit and got those air bubbles to stop coming back, but the one already in the line sat right where it was. I'm going to take things apart again today to see if I can get rid of the bubble and keep it gone or if it will come back again. Thanks
-Chris
Nor.Cal.914
QUOTE(jcd914 @ Jun 7 2009, 10:56 PM) *

It is possible to run the reservoir low while bleeding the brakes or if the pads were worn down a lot and get air bubble in the supply line. It is also possible to get the air bubble caught in the supply line in the semi flat section. What happens is that brake fluid flow around the air bubble while bleeding. In the flat section of the supply line the bubble clings to the top of the tube and the fluid flow under it. It does not quite flow under as fast as you are bleeding so the bubble moves down toward the master cylinder but does not quite make it as the supply tube angle get steeper. As soon as you stop the flow from bleeding the bubble moves back up as the fluid flows around it.
I have had good luck by slapping the brake pedal over and over again very fast. You want to create very short pressure pulses, the bubble will move back a forth very quickly but usually it will move up stream a little each time and will end up going back to the reservoir.
Since you have the tank out you may be able to just flex the tube and increase the angle so the bubble flows up and back to the reservoir.

good Luck

Jim


I constantly checked my fluid level in the reservoir to make sure that an air pocket wouldn't come because of low fluid level. Pads are great too, they were changed within the last year and they still have plenty of material left. Your explanation of why the bubble is sitting where it is makes perfect sense. I'm going to try and flex the reservoir lines into as much of a straight line as I can to see if I can get that bubble to go back up into the reservoir. Like I said in the previous post though, at one point I saw tiny air bubbles coming up from the master cylinder, but after I wiggled the reservoir lines around a little bit at the "plugs" on top of the master cylinder I was able to make them stop coming back, but the bubble sat right where it was before. I will try and straighten the lines though to see if I can get the bubble to go up and post with results. Thanks
-Chris
Nor.Cal.914
QUOTE(jaxdream @ Jun 7 2009, 10:56 PM) *

Drain your resivor tank , detatch the offending line , try inserting a small gauge wire down to where the bubble is and try to break it up or cause it to rise to the top of the tube .Easy at this point and costs are with the wire and brake fluid.

Jaxdream


I am going to try flexing the lines as straight as possible first to see if I can just get the bubble to go back up into the reservoir, but if that doesn't work then this is more than likely going to become my next option. I will post with results as soon as I make any progress. Thanks for all the great input so far! thumb3d.gif
-Chris
Nor.Cal.914
Jim (jcd914),
I tried your method of just tilting the lines so that they were in more of a straight line and the bubble floated right back up to the top! biggrin.gif Thanks again to everyone for the suggestions!
-Chris
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