Weeeee

So my anticipated 5 min hood seal install turned into a 12hr+ restoration so far. I think the results speak for themselves though given what it started as.

The bodyshop apparently sprayed over some pitting and surface then seam sealed over that. I went to install my new seal and had a wtf m8 moment. I then began masking everything off and getting the channel to bare metal to inspect. Here we go!

Before what it all looked like all over



Eeek



This is after 60 grit, prep and it is soaking in por-15 metal ready, aka zinc phosphate, phosphoric acid and other random ingredients they stick in.

Blurry shot of the spot down below!




Ahhh yes, fresh por-15!

This was easily fixed with some por patch. If you have not used it, I can't reccomend it higher. I used it on a scirocco years ago it has held up. You can hit it with a hammer, and it expands some as it dries, so it will cover up any small exposed metal on the backside of what you squeeze it into. This stuff is 18$ for 4 oz however.



After it dried, the por patch in place.




You could hit this with a hammer, and screwdriver now. Nothing would give or come out, or even chip..... It is stronger than the por 15.

Also I am going to sand it down some to make the seal sit level again and because I am anal.

The drivers side was worse with more pitting in more area, but no holes anywhere aside from the one you see on the up close near the cowl. Fortunately it is not through both layers of metal yet.

I took less pictures because of how long the process took, but 60 grit, marine clean, then metal ready and then por-15.

Take note of the nasty pitting...







All clean with fresh nice por 15. No por patch needed here on this side.

Later tonight I have to remove the hood and strip/por 15 the cowl channel area..... That may take longer since the jackass PO put what looks like RTV or window weld into the cowl to fender channel. Yay, at least the rest of the paint was done right and is thick/proper.

wow, Gary, You do some nice work!

Thanks. I suck at bodywork. I just have patience for tedious crap like this.


I found another hole, this time at the cowl on the passenger side. The bodyshop filled it with window weld for me, how kind of them thinking ahead.

I test fit the seal after successfully getting the hood off by myself without scratching or chipping the paint. It looks good and there is no hint of grey what so ever. It will be invisible with the brand new seal installed should give peace of mind that it is not rotting away.

Nice job! Your way looks much faster. I did mine last month using that method except I replaced the areas that had rusted thru w/ some mild sheet steel fabbed into a simple "L" shape then riveted in place using the old (por15) material as an attach point. (what compound sentence?) These will get paint later. Material=$4.46 (I already had the Por15)

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So, you're replacing someone else's patch with a new patch?


Maybe it's time to invest in a welder ...
Andy

I went through the same fix on the windhsield area. I did it differenty.

First, I cut out the rusty part of the area, then I welded in a small horizontal patch plate. That filled in the bottom of the trough. Then I made the front vertical part of the trough by bending a strip of metal into a curve.

Clamped the plate along the inside of the marked curve (with a dremel) so there was a slight gap between the vertical piece and the cut horizontal. Clamped a chill plate under the horizontal, and welded the new vertical to the horizontal from the inside of the trough to fill in the corner. The weld slumped into the gap and became the corner. It took a delicate hand, and you will need chill plates wherever you weld due to the metal thickness. A little grinding and it was perfect. Used the chill plates applied underneathand the welder to patch a few small holes in the bottom of the trough along the fenders.

Per the POR patch, personally, I don't like adding plastics to ferrous metals. I thas been my experience that the rust cells remain underneath, and as the rust bubbles, they lift the plastics. Good luck with the patches.

Why weld in fresh metal when what is there is thick enough? There were also some areas that welding in metal would be difficult to say the least, such as the cowl join to the fenders. It was starting to rot through there, and replacing that sheetmetal is a huge task.

I have used por-patch on a car 4 years ago with no where near the prep or experience. That por-patch was simply hit with rattle can primer over it, then rattle can clear. To this day after sitting outside in winter, and sitting outdoors for 4 seasons the por-patch is as hard as the day it was used in the holes, and no more rot got out from under it since it expands around the back of the hole sealing it chemically.

The rust has a hard time bubbling under por-15 esp since it is one side of the metal that is really rusty (pitted). All the pitting was cleaned well before the zinc treatment, so it is pretty inert under there now.

If this were structural I could see metal replacement. Since it is not, and the paint on the car is fresh, you know.

If and when the time comes where the por patch fails and it needs to be welded, then I will have it done or do it. At this point, this is completely satisfactory and will work fine.

That is your version. Here is mine. It is a patch placed over, not someone elses patch, rather treated metal which had deteriorated to the point that it would no longer hold the gasket in place. In my humble opinion, this is a matter of function not appearance. And if it were, it is covered by the gasket anyway. Beleive it or not there are many of us who are not concourse people and could give a rats ass about such trivial matters. When finished, my 914 shall be sound, reliable (for a 914), nice to look at and FUN. If the next owner of wants to weld up the channels, fine. I, for one, don't plan to invest a shit load of $$$$ in a 914. A 356;maybe. Don't get me wrong Andy, I enjoy this project, this site and the fellowship here but I do think that some people tend to go overboard on this machines. Besides, I'm 58 and would like to be driving this thing when I die; not still working on it

I wasn't even talking to you. I was commenting on the first post in this thread.

Your car, do what you want. And if you post on a public forum, chances are someone is going to disagree with you. Yes, what i posted was my opinion.

I'm a firm believer in "do it once, do it right". Your mileage may vary.
If you look at my car, you'll notice it's probably as far from concourse as one can be.
Still, if time and money permits, i like to do things right, like replace rotten metal with new metal instead of covering it up with plastic.
Andy

Function here, not form Andy. I do agree with you, where metal replacement needs to be done it does need to be done. However, in this case it is a pro vs con. There is nice paint on this car, and the rust it has is cosmetic and can be encapsulated yet for a long time before worrying about replacing metal.

I also am not sure aside from a rotisserie how you would replace the sheetmetal in the corner box area. I would like to hear how, since it's underneath the hood and if you simply grind and weld from the top, you can't grind the weld inside clean enough and coat it so it does not rot back through. Likely it would involve cutting into the fenders as well, forming that channel ,possibly into the lower a pillar where it forms the door jamb? Fortunately just about 1/4 inch back is through into there and sculpting it together por patch will work for years. Rust is fine when it is entirely encapsulated and the flake/pit has been cleaned well enough. That is the key, encapsulated on both sides to prevent spread. It is not even going to be visible unless you take a mirror behind the hood arm where it mounts. You can't rot out of plastic when it's encapsulated, you know?

There is the catch 22 in dealing with unibody cars, can you seal it back from the inside and or underneath? Because Moisture *will* get in there. Just the humid maryland air here will take minor rust and quickly make it swiss cheese pitting that is through. Really, in this case it is doing it right.

I do have a welder, a decent lincoln that does flux and gas. I actually seam welded my old scirocco with flux, that was a complete learning car. I also expirimented with por-15, and all sorts of stuff.

I prepared the rear quarter panel of that car well enough so that rattle can paint with clear and rattle can primer has stuck on it for years without anything creeping underneath.

Anyways, at about 18-20 hours into this, while some paint was drying I sectioned up my battery tray and started cleaning the pitted up hell hole and frame area in there.

I would like to weld metal in for the .5" hole on the inside about 2" above the hell hole but below the battery tray (No clue why it rotted through here, it was not covered in crap.) But it too will be patched, sealed and treated until in a few years metal can be welded in.

I know this is more like bondo than metal work -- but in this case it is properly done bondo that is lightyears ahead of most 914's and lightyears ahead of just letting it continue to rot. At this point it can all be encapsulated for a *long* time.

Rust never sleeps. It's an electric reaction that can't be encapsualted with "magic" materials. Personally, I won't mislead people that a plastic patch is an acceptable fix for rust damage, and that the rust is under control.

My humble opinion comes from my time in the high salt environment called Florida. I have seen too many nice looking cars that were really a rusty POS. Somebody takes a rusted POS, bangs in the rust, coats the rust with a deruster, slaps on the plastic patch over the supposedly conquered rust, and sprays a new coat of paint on the car. A year later, the rust bubbles start poking through what looks like a nice car, and the buyer realizes what happened....

I hope that didn't happen to you.

SirAndy, I appologize for my rant. I misunderstood your reply.

Number 1 reason not to glue in your seals. Very nice repair.

No.

This car is quite clean given it's age and the fact it was a survivor. The paintjob is ok and the car is solid. It has minor hell hole issues and minor issues on the other side. The jack boxes are suspect too, I am going to pull htem off to survey underneath.

They did however not fix teh rust on it which is a blessing and a curse. I can tell where it is rotting and again I can tell where it is rotting.

Also, if rust is encapsulated on both sides, or minor enough that it ahs not made it through all the metal a true seal from elements will keep it fine for a long time until "plastic paint" degrades. It's not magic, it is science and logic the same things are you are using to form your opinion.

I am going to post some pics for some suggestions on the hell hole.

For now I am going to por-15 and putty the holes just to keep it as sealed as possible after taking pictures to prevent it from spreading.

With enough pictures of the areas clean it will provide a guide of what metal more than likely needs to be replaced in teh future and buy me a few years while I take care of other things.

With the age of these cars unless they were cleaned regularly and the paint sealed down in the moisture/dirt prone areas they are going to simply have rust issues.

I could not find a car anywhere near this clean on the east coast for what i have here. I will deal with some slight roadbumps and stop gaps as well as fixing previous owners bodge work.

As far as I am concerned the cowl and fender joint area up front now is out of sight and mind. I will finish it and check on it a few times a year. If it creeps, it will have to be welded.


This was a california car, cat egr lights on the dash etc, in cali the entire life of the car. It still has minor issues

Finally the seal and hood can go back on tomorrow/today. I guess I did get side tracked with the rockers and engine bay cleaning/rust uncovering.

I'll be doing the same thing soon (don't have the skills or $$ for welding right now). Why not glue in the seal? How does the seal stay in place without glue (especially the PITA repro that looks like a worm on a hot tar driveway)?