my mechanic has been nice enough to store my car for the last year. but with spring around the corner, i realllly want her back. i haven't had it fixed yet, because i can't justify paying him the $2,800 he has quoted me for the repair bill. the engine froze last year (after a valve adjustment he performed). the cause of the problem was a loose valve seat which dented the head. he said these things just happen. ironically, there was another 75 with the same problem, but worse damage i saw there yesterday. now i need to have the heads re machined and the valve seats replaced. Does $2,800 sound fair for this job? he is a true porsche mechanic, and races a 914/6 himself, so i trust he knows what he is doing. thanks in advance.
the rest of the car is mint - considering its age, just some fading on the interior. it's a '75 2.0

Do it all the way - split the case. If you don't do it now you will be doing it later, and maybe after a failure. That costs twice as much.

Top end rebuilds freshen up the top end, add compression and overstress the bottom end thats already aged.

If the top end is worn, so is the bottom and especially the cam..

I agree, do the whole thing..."Pay me now or pay me later, but your gona' pay" ...At least this way, the cost is smaller than if you have a catastrophic failure from the cam, rod, lifter. etc...Only takes one small piece...

2-OH!

ask him the price for the whole thing... do it right or don't bother... if the rebuild is 4000+ you'll be in the same boat as me... which is why I bought another engine that had already been rebuilt... the local guys wanted 3500-4500 for a full rebuild... there was no way I was putting that into a 1.7L

If you have a failure 4K won't touch it.

Sounds high if all he is going to do is a in/out and touch up the valves, put in a seat + exhaust guides.

Even with a dropped seat you should be able to spin it part way around.

Like Jake said do it right.

If your on a low budget, stick in a used runner and do this one right as $ permit.

i was considering the purchase of a new car for that cost. i bought this one for $4k with 87k miles on it. except for the fact that it isn't running right now, i thought it was a good buy at the time (3rd owner and NO RUST). i pretty much wrote it up as a loss for the past year. but seeing it again last week, really made me want to drive it. plus, someone parks a '72 (same color as mine) right in front of my office. it's like dangling a carrot. what's a reasonable rebuild price? and is it worth it? this purchase has obviously been a learning experience, but when do i get to graduate? he's already removed the engine (and the useless a/c unit, and dismantled the top end.) it's all in pieces on a shelf in his garage.

just spoke to my mechanic........he says it really isnt necessary to split the bottom end. i asked about 5 times if he was sure, and told him that i didn't mind the extra cost. he assured me it really won't be necessary. he said the bottoms on these cars are really tough and on some cars it would be necessary, but not the 914. any comments????

whats you plan with this car? If you want to drive it then is it worth the money to YOU to have it fixed. I bought a nice car last fall for $5500, and have spent another $1k on it fixing little things. If the engine went tomorrow (and I hope it doesn't) I would spend the $$ to fix it. If it is a solid car, and has no real other major problems then I would have the engine rebuilt OR buy one that already is. Thats my two cents

- Garold

Good Luck...

Wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole.... If the top is worn, the bottom is also..

Might get lucky...might get hosed

The cam is not bullet proof.

If it goes another 5000 miles his is covered. He's playing the odds.

why wouldn't he want the $$ to fix the whole thing? i'm willing to pay for it.

time my friend...

ask Jake how much TIME goes into an engine rebuild/build...

he'll never get enough money to compensate for the time, when he can do 100 "15 minute jobs" and charge for an hour on each... and he'd have to spend many hours on your engine, and not get to carge for as many as he spent.

plus(big plus), like mark henry said... his ass is covered this way, the other way, it's NOT!!!

"Pay me now, or pay me later, but your gonna pay"

maybe he's just got a case of the "who givesa shit"s? call another local place and see what they say... I called 8 places locally, only 3 would even touch it...

my 2056 longblock is costing me 2grand including a rebuild of my weber 40s. Also u said your mechanic is a porsche mechanic. Keep in mind that a Type4 is way different from a normal 6. You might want to look for a vw mechanic experienced in TIVs first. Talk to my builder. Ask for Jeff: Gervais Engine- (909) 296-383 (or (888) 652- 8989)...the shop is in socal and I believe he does quiet a bit of out of state work. He has done work for another club member as well...Bernbomb...ask him. He is a standup experienced mechanic. As is the rest of his staff. The site is gemvw.com....
hehehe...

my car will be up and running next week...will show pics...

A top end build takes 1/3 as much time as the full meal deal..... Time IS money.

Jake says all the time how strong the bottom end of the T4 is. Surely this mechanic can see some indication of what the cam and rods are like without splitting the case. The lifters can all be removed and checked and the rods could be checked also. Just looking through the barrel spigots will give some idea.....maybe the bottom end is ok. Saying this mechanic is doesn't really give a sh1t is mere speculation and a bit harsh.

I just know all the heartaches I had about 10 years ago with top end jobs...

The engine will last forever if its all worn equally, but tighten up the top end and things down below start talking.

The TIV is very durable in the bottom end, what will get you is the cam, lifters and thrust surface on the #3 cam bearing...

I have not done a top end in atleast 10 years, just too risky.

If you trust the mechanic, go for it.... If you end up with less than favorable results you'll just end up doing it again.... thats worst case. Maybe more parts, maybe less.... Maybe it'll last for 20 years-ultimately you are paying him so listen to him.

You need a very specific understanding of what he will do if it does come unglued, and how long he will cover it with his name..... If he is smart he won't give it a warranty, if he does its a wing and a prayer...

thanks for the advice. you really need it when you are thinking with your heart and not your wallet. it would be different if he was trying to talk me into a higher repair bill, but he is really trying to do the opposite. i think i trust him, i'm just pissed that the valve seat came loose so soon after his valve adjustment. i never got to drive the car. he did say he would recommend the whole job if i planned on using the car for track events, but as an occasional daily driver, not so much.

If the engine lost a seat- it got too hot. Seats don't fall out unless the heads get too hot. (or unless they were installed really crappy..)

what you don't realize is that he may be making MORE money from doing a top end than a rebuild.. especially since he can do the top end in 1/3 as much time and then go on to another job and make more, and more, and more... 5 smaller jobs in a week will yield more profit than one big one will (I know this)

Then a few years down the road he has you on the hook for a full rebuild, this usually makes more money for him and increases job security...

I'm not make implications about him being a crook, but I worked at alot of import shops when I was a kid and saw how they work. Thats why I don't work on cars just build engines.......

i don't think he'll be around that long. he reminds me of "old blue" from the movie old school.

My ignorance again but.... if your just looking at a top end, quick and dirty, can you not find a good set of used heads to drop on and reinstall the engine for less than $2800?

Who's your mechanic?

You should really sign up for the local list and ask about him there. Many of us have dealt with the "Porsche" mechanics over the years.

the mechanic is pat. he was referred by someone who races old 356's.

I've got to say it publically...
I know the mechanic.. He has worked on my teener, ppi'd a 911, repaired a 924Turbo of mine, and has done many friends 944's that I sent his way. He is a national PCA club steward, and big time ex-scca guy.....

I respect that people have different opinions about what should or should not be done in a rebuild..

but I've got to say that Pat is a good mechanic, and a fair mechanic.. he does not rip people off.

brant

spoke to my mechanic again today. he said the heads can't be machined until may (bummer). not that anyone else can't do the work, but he prefers and trusts his own machinist. anyway....i asked him about a complete rebuild, he said it will run another $1,400, to do the bottom end. my question is this: at what point does it make more sense to just buy a new engine, or car for that matter? is there any advantage/dis to having the engine rebuilt?

You can't buy a new engine. You could buy lots of new parts for a rebuild.

Let me put it this way.

I've paid other local Porsche mechanics to wrench on my car on a couple of occasions when I just couldn't do it myself or didn't have the time. The next time I have any work done on my 914 in Denver by someone other than myself, it will be Pat. No if's, and's, or but's.

Now you can second guess every decsion you make, but sooner or later something has to be done if you want to get the car back on the road. If you're not comfortable with Pat, then by all means find another shop to do the work.

Best of luck...

i am totally comfortable with pat. he is a down right nice guy. i was just trying to debate my cost options. replace or rebuild the engine? top, bottom, or both? now it's about my wallet, not his work.

there is 85k+ miles on this engine with the hotter 75 emissions crap on there, you would be a fool not to open the bottom end to check the wear. My bet is most of the parts will be marginal and should be reworked.

The big question is "Who is rebuilding the heads???" This Porsche mechanic? Hmm, I would send them out to Headflowmasters to eliminate the dropped valve seat problem.
Plus, they drop out due to the engine overheating.
Why is it overheating? Fix that problem now!
Is the MPS the right one or miscalibrated?
Still running the crappy later style heat exchangers, change them out to the early style.

Dave Darling has fought the dropped seat problem twice so it is time to solve that before tossing more money in the engine.

Geoff

everything said was spot on!

thanks everyone for all of the input. i think i will rebuild the whole thing. but what's this thing about Heat Exchangers?
p.s. the catalytic converter had been removed