Howdy,

I have been doing a lot of reading about the different levels of driving needs (Daily, Street, Autocross and PCA) and the suspension that goes along with them. I found that for hard street driving that the best configuration is;

22mm Front Swaybar
16mm Rear Swaybar
Stock front springs and torsion bars
140lbs rear springs
Koni Adjustables all the way around

I am sure there are a 100 ways to go and everyone will have something a little different, but this would be a good place to start. However, I need to know what I have first. = ) Here are pictures of my parts. What do I have and whats the best way to go.

Thanks.

Eric

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Let me know if you need pictures of anything else.

Eric

Some pics of the front would help. Before you get new springs and shocks I'd look at your bushings, bearings, ball joints and tie rods. No sense in spending cash on shocks and springs if that stuff is worn out. I see you need new rear bar bushings. You also need to straighten out your tranny mount washer placement.

Now here's a thread that will get a few opinions! You are sprung just like my 6 was when I bought it but it had a 2.7L motor installed (so was slightly heavier) and she had Bilstiens in the front and Koni adjustables in the rear.

Have you driven the car enough in it's current configuration, and in a spirited fashion, to know if one change will be beneficial? Based on advice from many 914 gurus, I took my rear sway bar off the day I bought it and it's still on the wall 15 years later.

With your big front sway bar, bigger rear springs, and assuming a stiff chassis, I'd lose the rear sway bar and see if you like the result. Actually, you'd only have to detach one side for a test drive.

Then go out to your closest twisties and sweepers to find how well you can navigate them, and if the oversteer is easier to modulate.

The next change I made was to install heavier front torsion bars. The effect was instantly better as the car was much flatter in the curves, and I could quickly tune over/understeer with tire pressures and rear shock settings. That said, unless you've tried this already...

you have some fun ahead of you.

Good Luck

Jmill has good info, check the play in your ball joints and tie-rod ends as well. They can make a huge difference

Whats wrong with the tranny mount washer placement? Is it wrong? Thanks for catching it and anything else you see. = )

More pictures..

Eric

Space Needed

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That's exactly the set up in my old AX car with a weld in roll bar and Rennshift to complete the package. You'll find on soft settings, the car will stiff give you plenty for the street, whereas hard will be a bit much.

Does anyone have any of these answers?

Rear Sway Bar
- What size is mine?
- Who makes it?
- Can you still get parts for it?

Rear Spring
- How can I tell the LBS on it? (100lbs? 180lbs?)
- Are these good for aggressive street driving?

Rear Shocks
- I take it mine are crap and I need new ones.. = )

How about the front?

Front Sway Bar
- What size is mine?
- Who makes it?
- Can you still get parts for it?

Front Shocks
- The one in the picture makes noises.
- I think its rebuildable. Good shocks?

= ) thanks everyone for any insights I can get.

Eric

= ) Which part is like your old AX car? My front end or rear end? Is it good or should I change it? Can I make any changes to my current system to improve handling without having to spend more money?

Eric

Space Needed...

Needed Space

Needed space...

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I pondered this question last summer and here is what I ended up getting for a future Suby powered teener.
For 'spirited' driving I used:
New turbo tie rods
New ball joints
Elephant Racing self adjusting washer set, front and rear poly-bronze bushings, front Mono balls
Yellow adjustable Konis all the way around
Ground Control adjustable rear perches
Stock torsion bars
New hardware (bolts and etc.)
Tarret Front adjustable sway bar with Engman super duty mounting points


This list was compiled from info from both the Club and World sites for the kind of driving you described above.

Just my 2 cents!

Have fun and drive the snot out of it!
Nate

The whole thing is almost exactly what I had front and rear.

You're fine. Drive it. It looks like you have turbo tie rods, looks like a Weltmeister 21 or 23MM front sway bar, stock rear (17MM?), adi Konis are great, 140 lb springs I think are perfect for the street. You can tell by feel. Springs age so go by feel. Some changes? Make sure everything is bolted down well, including your steering column. Have you changed you're brake fluid? Well maintained stock brakes are fine BTW. Depending on use and your appetite for tires, I enjoyed some neg. camber (cheap), and I ran 1/4 inch spacers on 2.0 Fuchs. To stiffen the ride, a weld in bar adds good stiffness if done right, and tied to the right places, but it can be tight to get in and out of the pass side. If your bushings are old, they will let you know (he he).

Drive it. You have a very nice set up to start with and add as needed.

Great setup. What was the total damage $$wise?

Outstanding!!! = ) Good news. If you were in Tucson, I might be talked into Lunch. = )

So my front sway bar is good to go? If I slide those connectors down to the end of the shaft, does that make it stiffer? What types of adjustments are there with those sway bars? Do I have Konis in the front? Do I have the 140 lbs springs already? I have fuchs 2.0 as well. What is this spacer your talking about?

Thanks again for all the great help.

How hard can you really Safely drive on the streets anyway...Save it for the track


see Dick drive

see Dick drive hard on the streets

see Dick crash on the streets and hurt innocent people

DONT BE A DICK

JMO ...got plans for tomorrow drive safe today

Have a good day
Mike C

Looks from the pictures that you are missing at least 1 CV bolt.

Mike

See this thread for proper washer placement. The cupped washer goes on top.

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?showtopic=96869

You soften the front by sliding the link to the outside. You have a good front bar. It looks to be Weltmeister. Check the bushings that the bar goes through and see if they are worn. You can buy replacements if needed. Your front A-arms have rubber bushings. Your rears will most likely have the same. I'd change those out. It depends on how much money you want to spend on which way you go. Take some pics of the top of your front and rear towers.

Your ball joints and tie rods look good.

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Is this spare correct? I cant get the wood/carpet piece to fit correctly. (side topic).

Anyone want to buy a REALLY clean 914 to restore? = )

Thanks again everyone.

You can have a bunch of fun on the street without huge speed. If the car is up to it, curves and a car that handles like a cart is a tonic. Poer is good, no doubt about it, but that said, cornering G's are what 914's are about in my book. Your front shocks...

That is a Bilstein dust cover but mine are totally green, including the lower.

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This pic is an SC strut on my 914. I don't know if the 914 struts had that same color schemes for the struts or if the Bilstein covers fit on other struts. More informed folks got more info?

I think mine are green all the way up. I know I have unscrewed one and it came apart pretty easy. Are these rebuildable? Anyone do them fairly cheap or is it something I can do myself?

Thanks for your insight. Gereat to know. So my front shocks are Bilstein and my rears are... KYB? Bad?

Are KONI better than my front and rear?

Thanks again.

Eric

By the way... I agree. Its a little stock 2.0 engine. It runs great and its quick enough. But its the cornering and stuff thats fun. = ) I love big 3 lane intersections that you can go through in the inside lane and hold the corner. = ) Neat.

Eric

No way of knowing what front shock you have until you pull it apart. Lots of shocks fit in the Bilstein strut.

Yes, yours are absolutely rebuildable and you can replace the inserts with sport versions if you want more stiffness. By all means, do it yourself if you are mechanically inclined. Lot's of threads on that in this forum. Just make sure to mark your top shock mount positions carefully and get it aligned after that.

I can get the shock tube out from under the wheel-wells without taking them loose at the bottom, but I have GT flairs. Don't know about the straight sided cars but I'd try it. I've done it on 911's often.

I like Bilstien Sports because they don't beat you up like KYB's and Koni's. Koni's are good quality by the way, and I've gotten good service from them.

I have them on the back with 200# coil-overs. But when they finally go south, I'll replace them with Bilstein gas adjustables.

My setup is as follows, for future reference, but my motor is a lot heavier than yours.

Front:
23mm torsion bars
22mm B&H sway bar
Bilstein sport struts
Elephant Racing poly-bronze bushings
Big brakes
Rear:
no rear sway bar!
200# coil-overs
Koni gas adjustables
Elephant Poly-bronze bushings
Shock towers are tied together

When I got my car it was like yours and set up for AX by the previous owner. The soft front-end was built for that, and he had a small rear sway bar too. I never measured it but it was not much.

FYI: If they aren't already, and when they wear out, you can replace your motor mounts with the 911 Sport versions found on 911 Cabriolets circa '78 - '87. They are stiffer... helps with shifting assuming all of your shift linkage bushings and pins are in good shape.

Ooops, I forgot the 911 Cab wasn't reintroduced until 1983. I knew that... my bad.

Do you think mine is setup for autocross (AX)? Is there any way to tell what springs I have in the rear if there are no markings?

Eric

When I bought this car it had blue springs in stock perches. That meant they were 180#springs, which is a difference from your car I didn't notice before. But I don't remember the manufacturer unless it was Suspension Spring Specialists. I never knew what yellow ones were... I later used Coleman perches and smaller springs to get myself up to 200#.

There is a discussion about springs last year (searched on +yellow +springs)

http://www.914world.com/bbs2/index.php?sho...yellow++springs

In it is a link to a chart by Charlie Davis that illustrates stock spring data.

http://members.rennlist.com/chuxter/914CoilSprings.htm

Someone here knows this yellow-spring mystery for sure.

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Do you think mine is setup for autocross (AX)? Is there any way to tell what springs I have in the rear if there are no markings?

Eric
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The short answer is I think so. But eventually you'll need to know the rear spring rate before you make any changes. But I would try everything else before I spent any money changing stuff.

What I'm saying here is that the Bilstein strut is painted green. Different companies make inserts that fit into the Bilstein strut. You have to pull it apart to tell. AA sells an AX kit that includes the Weltmeister bar, KYB's, rear springs, etc. A popular kit if your into KYB's. Mine came with that kit installed by the PO. Your cars PO might have done the same. Since your springs are yellow I have no idea what they are. I've seen them black with colored dots denoting spring rate. I would think you can get them tested at a shop if they have the equipment.

rebush the front anti-sway bar. looks like the bushing is non-existant in the first picture. figure out what proportion will be daily/street vs axing. plunking down a bunch of money, doing wholesale changes and making your car ride like a buckboard may make you less than happy.

Sorry to repeat. Drive it. AX it. You need time to get to know the car, save your money and do things that make the most sense for the money. You've got a great foundation. Go with it...

I'll go against the grain on this one... if you are just going on the street, not much more is needed than stock... new shocks, Bils or Konis, new tierod ends/ball joints, good working brakes. a stock front sway bar is nice... anything more than that is all at your desire/usage...

just my opinion.. the cars are a BLAST on the street as it is

I'm all for driving the car but there are things you need to look at first. You don't want to push your car when it's not mechanically sound. Worn out bushings at key suspention points make handling unpredictable. Tighten up the slop with new bushings, get a four wheel alignment and corner balance. Then drive the heck out of it in a semi controlled environment ( track or AX ). You can then proceed from there. Your wallets the limit.

I'd like to think that the fact that the car has to be safe and sound is understood, but it does bear repeating.

All suspension joints, bushings, bearings, etc must be in good shape, regardless of the usage and age. There are a bunch of rubber things that need attention in your car and those should be addressed first. Several times a month I like to go under my car, test torques and check for broken boots, leaks and cracks. I don't find many to be sure, but I'm constantly surprised to hear about folks who drive for months without a glance under the car.

I'd still lose the rear sway bar but that's just me.

Your front drivers side anti sway bar bushing is about to fall out...and it looks very old.
Get new bushings, and get the proper sized clamps to go on the bar and keep it centered...or the bushings will keep getting pushed out. The bar slides side to side and pushes out the bushings.

Your rear bar rubber bushings are JUNK...get something new in there...they are all worn out. Delrin or new rubber, brass or bearings...they all work.

If you push the front drop link closer to the pivot point...closer to the anti sway bar, it gets stiffer.
Currently you are on a nice setting, if you go much stiffer, teeth will suffer. That depends upon what bar you have in there...you will figure that out when you measure for the bushings.

Tune up your two sway bars first.
If you need to replace the shocks, I would suggest koni adjustables...then you can play around with the settings till YOU like the way it handles. Bilsteins are super stiff.

On the rear springs. You need new rear shocks with adjustable perches to start...koni are adjustable, Bilsteins are stiff.

To figure out what spring rate you have, measure the spring, then put 140 lbs on it...if it moves one inch...they are 140 lb springs.
If you need 180 lbs to move it one inch, then they are 180 lbs.

I suppose if there is a race shop nearby, they may have the right machine to check this, but a bunch of weights work fine...or a 180 lb friend with good balance.

I had
23mm front torsion bars
22mm front anti sway bar
Bilsteins all around
180 lb rear springs.
Turbo tie rods.
Front and rear roller bearings (instead of rubber bushings)

That was super stiff and I had to tighten the suspension nuts weekly.

I went back to stock front torsion bars.
I will go back to 140 lb rear springs....maybe.

Rich

How did you like the roller bearings? Worth the money. Smoother or just stiffer. Sounds great in theory but pricey...