Has anyone blueprinted a type 4 oil pump?

Rich

I've rebuilt a few and checked the tolerances. I found them to be acceptable.

Are you looking to machine them to a certain spec? If so, where did you get your specs. The factory manuals do not have any clearances for the oil pump.

Well, for one thing....that was kinda the point of the thread.....

I am assuming that the same "specs" would apply similar to the type1 pump.
Ensure the side clearance is tolerable...the closer to the wall the better.
Enlarge the inlet port to develop better flow.
Ensure even gears and mating surface....

Pretty much it from what I can tell.

Rich

It seems pertinent to link to my thread comparing oil pumps.

It seems to me that I saw a thread on this once that went into detail about the porting.

Interesting.
I wonder if a case modification to open up the inlet port to match the pump would help...

Rich

I would say when using a Melling or Shadek, that match porting the case to the oil pump should help. Although I do have a 30mm factory pump that 904svo machined for me. I will be trying it soon.

Stick a T1 pump in there. bigger gears, get a new shadek...26mm or 30mm. Make sure you use a steel cover plate.
Hell I think a stock T1 21mm will pump as much as a T4 pump

I've done it full flow and "stock" style.

I happened upon a stash of NOS type 4 oil pumps a few years back on ebay so I'm all set. I built my 2.7 with a type 1 oil pump but i dont think it's necessary now that I think of it, the type4 pump is more than enough....I guess it all depends on the performance you are looking to get out of the engine you are building...

Who here (other than Blake) knows what these (stock) pumps look like when they are failing???

There are two types of stock TIV pumps:
*Failing
*Failed

Who knows what happens when they do fail???

What the hell do these pumps look like?

I have been dealing with watercooled VW's for years and the oil pumps will last forever, even after the pickup screen has been cluttered up with garbage.


It is near impossible to kill them, even with some disturbing gear lash they still work great, flow well and generate the right pressure.

When they fail it is pretty obvious. If they are slowly failing, it will not be obvious until you have some nice knocking going on I would guess.

The whole air cooled motor thing is new to me, but I already want a 28RS on my 1.8l

I don't see how the pump could fail at all. Unless the one you're talking about is designed differently, the one on mine [stock 75 2.0] was just two gears with an inlet and outlet port. It's about as basic as it can get and unless the teeth on the gears break, I really don't see what there is to cause any failure what-so-ever.

But maybe there's something I'm overlooking...

The failing of the stock pump has nothing to do with the gears.

You need to test fit the new Shadek pumps. They do not fit tight in the case.

What i am used to dealing with. Never had one die. 200k on a stock pump, still making the same pressure and volume as when new.

When the stock pump fails the lower support pin becomes dislodged and collides with the camshaft gear/ rivets and creates a nasty mess..

I made a very explanatory post about this on another site a few weeks ago with pics and captions...

Ed Mayo mentioned match porting the pump and the case inlet and outlet holes as one way to get a little more power out of a max-performance build. I've heard the same from one or two other people as well.

--DD

The other post.
http://www.914club.com/bbs2/index.php?show...amp;hl=oil+pump

Match porting is a good thing, but it won't help if the oil pump body is worn or if it has failed.

I saw a post on another forum a few months ago where a member spent a solid day working on his oil pump and he was very proud of what he had accomplished..

His oil pump was clearly failed in his pics that were posted, and he didn't even know it.

Thanks for posting the link to my "other" post, Blake..

That explains more, but even after searching myself I can not find a picture of the pump and how it is installed.

I am guessing that the shaft which decides to walk out is there simply for a gear to ride on, and the tab coming out of the other shaft is driven off one of a cam?

I am having one hell of a time finding information on these motors.

Short shaft vs. long shaft?

Is there any good available documentation on type IV motors?

Hey your suppose to be on vacation

You are simply not looking in the right places for info.. There is a TON of info on these engines here on line.. I have a complete set of forums with over 70,000 posts all about this engine specifically.. The STF is another place to learn a ton.

I even have a DVD that goes over assembly of the engine..

And if you want to learn even more we have classes here at my facility, the next one will be in early November for 4 days.

Hi Jake or Blake. What do we do now that you are no longer selling oil pumps?

We stopped selling the pumps because there were simply too many QC issues than I was willing to keep dealing with.

I have had a billet pump designed for over two years, but they will cost more than most anyone is willing to pay for an oil pump and the prices would more than likely just piss people off... We'll be using these in our engines and kits, where the outlay of funds is required but fortunately we have the ability during mock up and assembly to ensure the current pumps work fine in these offerings.

Just like the Mallory Uni-Lite, we pulled these pumps due to quality control and a manufacturer that was unwilling to make the parts to the standards they were "yesterday"... What to do?? I don't have an answer for that.

Thanks Jake. Enjoy the rest of your vacation.

I'd just like to thank everyone who contributed to this thread as it has taught me much more than most do.

Great info, and we are lucky to have this subject matter expertise on this forum.

Thanks

No problem..
I have found some *possible* replacements for the TI pump that are at a sane price point. I will begin testing one of these when I return and plan on installing one in Beth's Vert engine and the engine going in our Double Cab next month..

Thanks, looks like I will be joining some forums and picking up a video.

Fortunately I have a good relationship with a local machine shop, and can get the machining done and assemble anything myself to verify all is kosher.

These things are entirely different creatures than a cast iron block watercooled motor.

Thats right and THE WORST mistake anyone can make is assuming that the experience one has with a watercooled engine is applicable to the TIV... Forget what you knew and start crawling, because you ned to start from scratch.

The same goes for your machine shop... NOTHING is the same.

I just dug out my box-o-parts and came up with three Type IV stock pumps. They are a textbook perfect visual description of what Jake was describing...

1: Pin recessed.
2: Pin flush.
3: Pin protruding.

Read...

1: Will fail
2: Failing
3: Already failed

-Josh2

I use type 1 based 2 stage oil pumps in my race engines and I make significant modifications to them, including: match porting to the case, radiusing edges where the oil has to turn, increasing the outlet port diameter all the way to where it exits the case, making sure endplay is minimal, etc.

Another failure mode I have experienced with aftermarket pumps is the corners of the drive tang wear away at the points of contact with the camshaft.
At some point the pump will stop turning if this is allowed to continue over a long time.

With regard to the gears, backlash is not as important as tip clearance to the housing is.