Hi All,

I'm worried that I'm about to be jumped on for this, but here goes anyways, I'm stuck.

So I have this block that I was attempting to rebuild. Being a novice, I bought Jake's video and went to work. I never split the block, it turned by hand and I thought I was good. Everything went on fine. So now it was up to getting to TDC and adjusting the valves... now the motor turns about 5 degrees to either side, but feels like a brick after that. Its still on the engine stand, so i can't turn it too hard, but should it be that hard?

When jake does it, it looks like the engine just spins, when I do it, I get nothing. So whats the deal, do I just need some bigger muscles... or is something up?

There is an old clutch still on it that I was planning to pull, but it spun before all the stuff went on, so I didn't think it was that.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
-- Steve

There was another recent thread where the pin on the back of the oil pump can create clearance issues with the cam. I see you did not split the case but did you perhaps pull and reinstall the oil pump?

As a shortblock, the motor should be easy to turn.
When you install the pistons & cylinder it gets a little harder to turn.
When you install the pushrods & rockers it gets more difficult.

Once it's a longblock, you need a fan installed to turn the motor.

But that being said, if it feels solid at any point during the rotation, you need to stop and see what's wrong.

You could have a valve contacting a piston. The important thing is, when was the last time it would turn and what did you install after that.

Valve contacting a piston... thats possible. I felt like when I put the rockers on that everything was very tight. I'll try loosening up the rockers and see if thats the problem.

If a valve is contacting a piston, is there someway to know that? Anything I can do about it?

The heads were part of the HAM Inc special deal he did a while back, so I know they're good, just worried about abusing them, you know?

-- Steve

I know of one person who encountered this when the Chevy guy that rebuilt his heads used the wrong dual valve springs. The springs were binding.

Edit: I just re-read your last post. If your heads came from HAM, I'm sure they are fine.

Are the plugs in? If the plugs are out you might have issues.

What? How would this be the cause?

Since you said you never split the case... has the case been split by someone else perhaps? If so, the cam gear may have been put on incorrectly. Or the cam gear and crank gears were not meshed together correctly.

Or, if the motor is only getting the top end re-done... is you deck height set correctly? Not enough DH could cause this.

-Rob

The engine should spin freely without tight spots or stiffness.. New parts should not be any more difficult to spin than used parts..
If it's stiff find out why, before the engine tells you why. Do my rotor trick that I show in the video..

It sounds like you have something in one of the chambers if you get to 5 degrees and then locks... That is IF you have the plugs out.

Have you been extremely carful with foreign object debris during assembly?? Nuts and bolts find their way into intakes and will put a stop to your party very quickly.

If you leave the spark plugs in you are trying to turn the engine while it's under compression. Good luck with that. Having the plugs out leaves a big hole for the air to escape.

even if the plugs are in he should not hit a "brick wall" at 5 degrees.. Compression will begin to build by no later than 20 degrees but won't ever feel like a brick wall.

The only things I can think of are that maybe your flywheel could be catching on the back of the engine stand, or perhaps you have no distributor in place and the drive gear is in place and hanging up?

if you had the fan and housing off and have put it back on, it is possible that the fan was not torqued down evenly ( one olt at a time is a BAD way to tighten the fan down ! ) and is actually cocked to one side, thus grabbing the inside of the rear housing and causing a bind. Just another less likely but still very possible issue

All of the above. check everything.

Start tearing it down and spin it (try) as each bit comes off. Just make sure you're looking at the cause of the problem, not a symptom, when you find it.

Take it apart and learn each step of the way.

Rich

You got me there. I was hoping he had an easy fix like the plugs or flywheel lock were on.

I had this happen when I put together my case. Split the case and turn the crank as you tighten it back up. One step at a time. Oh, I think one of the bearings came loose from what i remember. Once it's torgued down it should be good. Can't say if you messed something up with the piston instsallation? Take your time. Good luck, you'll get it.

Hey All,

Thank you so much for all the help... found out what it was, but I don't know if its such good news.

It looks like the cylinders are contacting the valves when they're extended. I loosened up all of the rockers until the valves were mostly retracted and the engine spun just fine. I tightened one set of rockers which caused one of the valves to open a decent amount, and the engine stopped turning. Loosened it back up and it started moving again.

Is this a deck height thing? Its definitely not contacting the head itself. Could the cam be off its timing? Maybe I'm missing some kind of spacer?

-- Steve

yes it could be, and yes it could be...oh and yes it could be.

Pull the heads.
Measure your deck height.
Start there.

What pistons and cylinders are you using, what was the base motor to begin with?
You have a mismatch of pistons to the crank from the sounds of it.

Pistons with the wrong pin height (1.7/1.8 96mm pistons) in a 2.0 liter crankshaft will create a problem.

Pull the heads, measure deck height first.

If you have not opened the case, and the motor ran prior to you touching it...the cam timing should still be in tact...
Suspect what you did, suspect what you replaced first.

Think slow and logical.
It turned before..it ran before.
What did you do. Check each step of the way.
There is no way, aside from opening up the case, for a cam to skip a tooth...so stop thinking about that.
Think about what you touched.

Rich

The fix can be as easy as adding a shim between the cylinder and the case.

Check your deck height, like Rich says.

Oh and do your pistons have valve releifs? Did you put them in the right way?

The rule is turn the engine a full 360* after every component is installed.. remember how it felt or use a torque wrench that measures in inch pounds to measure the force needed to rotate the engine.. A fish scale also works well.

This way you'll find an issue as soon as the problematic component is installed, saving hours of labor later.

You certainly may have a piston hitting a head... Check the deck.

This is a crash course in assembly and the best way to learn.

Guess I didn't explain myself very well... That's the point I was trying to get across.

Indeed... sounds like a DH problem. Or wrong pistons.

What cam does the engine have??
It sounds like the pushrods were not seated in the pushrod cups of the lifter, but rather on the "shelf" around the pushrod cup.

Did you complete the valve train geometry process?

It takes seriously flycut heads and a cam that opens earlier than 30* BTDC to create this issue in most instances, unless the pushrods were not seated in the lifter cups, which is very likely.

Ahhh... yes... If the pushrods were never cut and the tips installed. That could easily be the cause!

Hi Guys,

Thanks for the responses. I'm going to start with Deck Height and move from there. Couldn't get anything done this weekend.

I thought I had checked to make sure all the lifters and the pushrods were properly seated, but I'll definitely check that again after the deck height issue.

Thanks again for all the help, definitely learning a lot here

-- Steve

Hi All,

Ok, so I am down to just the cups and the pistons on the motor. Took a snapshot of what is going on for visual help. I think the issue is my deck height.

Click to view attachment

I haven't devised a method of checking the actual height yet, but when I put a feeler gauge on it on the piston, even the .005 felt like it was higher than the cylinder.

Shims?

-- Steve

I'm guessing you mean cylinders and pistons. Have you studied jakes t4 video? I would suggest you review it or a book with pictures you can study. Sometimes still pictures sink in better. Posting pictures and asking questions is a very slow way to build a motor and probably a very expensive route. But it is a much better way to learn than before the web.

as i am sure others will chim in, you will need much more than that. i have a 56.75cc chamber volumn and my deck height was .040" for 9.8:1 cr. there are shims that go between the cylinders and the engine case adding more deck height so the valves dont come in contact w/ the piston head. when measuring the deck height i torques the cylinder down and used a dial indicator to determine what i had. then plugged info in the the keith blacks websites compression calculator w/ progressively more deck height til i had the compression i was shooting for then ordered the shims of the appropriate thickness from jake. i still put a piece of putting in the torqued down chambers once i had the shims installed to verify that i had sufficient clearance after taking the heads back off.

Yup, you need shims/spacers to move the cylinders away from the block and to recess the piston in the cylinder. Right now it looks like the pistons are very close to smacking the heads when they come full up.

Can you put a good straight edge across the cylinder and measure a gap between the piston and straight edge? A 6 inch machinist's scale is usually straight.

Told you so.

You have no deck height..looks like you have negative deck clearance.
Shoot for 30 thou at a minimum.

This would be the stock cylinder base shim.
Check Jakes store, he has these shims, or AA probably has them also.

Rich