So, kid would not listen....belt broke.
Nice thing is that it happened at 10 mph...car just lost power and he push in the clutch...it died.

Upon trying to turn it over with the starter, IC the camshaft gear is not turning...so I made him stop.

So, here is my plan.
We have all the parts on the way for the front end re-seal, belts etc.

I am planning on removing the camshaft so I dont keep hitting valves to get the motor at TDC.
Then turn crank to TDC.
With the camshaft removed, I will do a leakdown test on each cylinder.
If it passes with the camshaft removed, we may have lucked out.

Its the only way I can think of to get the motor to TDC without any more damage...Then I will put the camshaft back in at the correct position for TDC...

Any better ideas?
I would like to diagnose this PRIOR to pulling the head off...if I can.
I would rather not pull the head if I dont have to...not sure if that is possible, or if its junk.

Rich

If you get lucky post here. Then buy a lottery ticket. Yes, pull the plugs and the cam. make a leak down tester with a spark plug if you don't have one. Listen for where the air is coming from.

I have one...and a nice three foot hose that I use to listen...BTDT for years...old school leak down..

I can hope, right???

Rich

Next you'll be asking us to help you change a water pump.....

Nope, that is all coming in the parts order...
At least that will be done.

Its not all bad...this forced me to fix the Eurovan so he had a way to get to work today....

New muffler system installed...and new shifter bushings..
Eurovans are not mechanic friendly...I have nice new scars to prove it.

Rich

Rich, I believe that is a non interference engine as it is basically half a 928 engine and they were at that time - post over on
http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforums/924-...1-968-forum-70/
you will get a quick and accurate response.
Neil

I have a 944 T and had this happen once.

Pull the head, send it out to the machine shop to be resurfaced and replace the bent valves. Easy fix.

If the motor was turning there's at least 3 valves that will be shightly bent. Mine broke after the car had sat for a couple days. Went to start it and it just broke. If the motor was spinning I fear there may be a few more. The valves may look ok, but you will see where they contacted the piston.

If your going to do the work, it's just easier to send it out now so when the parts get here you can just assemble it all. Also, be very careful, make sure you're at TDC when you remove, and doubble check before you tighten the cam tower.

While you're replacing the pulleys, not the markings. It is possible to set them 180 degrees off. You'll know if you do because it'll vibrate horribly. Easy fix, but just easier to get right the first time.

While you're there, re-seal the front of the engine and the cam housing. They start leaking again every 80K or so.
Be sure to put the thermostat in early on, it's a real bitch later.
The water pump bolts like to break off, hit them with impact rather than torque if possible, they'll break less. The timing belt tension is critical. You'll need to borrow or buy a tool for that.
I'm pretty sure the non turbo 944 engines are an interference engine.

My 16v S2 bent all 8 exhaust valves when the belt stripped the teeth. The belt was intact, the teeth were gone. It happened when I started the car on a colder morning. I can almost guarantee you bent some valves.

My belt had about 40k on it. I don't understand why those belts can't be the quality of Toyota belts. Its really unfortunate.

Oh yeah, that Porsche belt tension tool is like $600. If you have the later spring loaded tensioner, you can tempt fate and let it set the tension. I did it, and a lot of people do. But, a real Porsche mechanic may cry foul.

I worked for a Porsche dealership when 944's came out and for over 10 years after. I have never seen nor heard of anyone ever getting lucking and not bending valves on any 944/924S engine when the belt let go.
You will be removing the head and replacing valves, the unknown is how many valves.

The worst damage I saw was on a car the failed while trying to start the engine, exhaust valve broke off and got planted in the cyl head across from the spark plug. Customer told us he parked it the night before and in the morning it cranked very quickly for a brief few seconds and stopped with a thump.

Here's hoping I am wrong!

If I am right you probably need

Jim

There is a pretty good cheap belt tensioning tool called a krikit that NAPA sells for $12.00. It worked great on my '84's timing belt, made the job a snap.

Rich you missed out on a good Endicott show this weekend. The other three "porsches" were all kit cars though.

Lucked out...
The teeth of the belt all fell out....so that is shot.
Good news...
I have a racer friend who has a head...
We will just swap in the used head...

Still gonna suck...there is alot of shit on the head...
Its coming off as we speak...the tribe of wanna be mechanics is out there stripping everything off...
I go out and advise once in a while....kinda nice for a change.

Plus I am now the parts hunter...made a few calls, found the head.
Bonus...my buddy has a Red parts car...same color as my sons car...

Rich

3 valves are toast.
Not to hard to get there...its a pretty simple motor.
the front timing belt setup looks like someone smoked a bit to much of some wacky tobbacy when they were sitting in front of a CAD machine.

No pics tonight...sorry bud. Just walked in with no food in our stomachs...and we all need showers now.
I will shoot a few tomorrow while we wait for things get here.

Rich

OK,
We got a new head...
So, I get the motor to TDC.
Now...how do I setup the cam and know that its at tdc also....
I would assume that then I look at it I should see both cam lobe bottoms on the number one cylinder? Obviously I will line up the mark.

Also...is there some secret to getting the cam tower on without dropping any of the followers? I did on the way off...

Rich

If you back the crank off a 1/4 turn from TDC then you can put the cam housing on without worrying about piston/valve contact. Then once the cam housing is on you can put the sprocket on and turn it close to to TDC and then turn the crank back to TDC. Usually the cam wants to snap forward or backward from TDC so find a spot it wants to stay put at and then turn the crank to TDC. I have seen a valve bent during installation as the cam snapped forward with the crank at TDC. You will have to turn the cam to TDC and hold it while you get the belt on and tight enough to hold the cam in place.

As far as get the cam housing in place with all the lifter in it;
Lay the cam housing on it side with the intake side up. Grab it with both hands (right hand toward the frt)fingers on the gasket side and holding as many lifters as you can manage (8 fingers 8 lifter), thumbs on the back side. Lift it and hold it side ways until you can lean it on the head and roll it up on to the valve springs. Or get a couple helpers, one on each end of the housing and one to push lifters back in as they start sliding out.

Couple of things on gaskets;
I am not a big fan of silicon sealant but I always coat the cork gasket for the back cover on the cam housing with red silicon before installing it. The cork gaskets seem to let the oil soak right thru them and leak from a completely intake gasket that is correctly positioned.
What cam housing gasket did you get? I have had the best luck with an all blue paper gasket. They make a gasket with graphite coated ends the I have had 2 maybe 3 fail where the coated section and non-coated section meet. It is like the graphite coated section slides away from the rest of the gasket and it tears.

Good Luck

Jim

Red silicone? NEVER. Guaranteed leaker. The Cap'n

Sorry Cap'n but the only ones that I ever had leak were the ones I did not put the crap on.
But I only worked on Porsche's professionally for 12 years after the 944 came out so what the hell could I know.

Jim

I hate the cork gasket on the rear of the cam. They always soak up the oil. It's not really a leak but it gets shitty looking. I use Yamabond 4.

And I spray copper on the valve cover gasket. (Both sides) I only used it on one side during my last build (to glue it in place on the head side) and I now have a leak from the surface between the forward side of the head and the valve cover.

Oh and I agree about the cam wanting to rock to one side or the other when lining up TDC. I thought about building a holder to lock the cam during install but then changed my mind. I thought "I'm only doing this once...." That was three engines ago.

Oh and one more thing. I was told the theory on cam breakage is not having the long sprocket bolt torqued to the correct value. I'm sure there are other reasons and I'm not sure this is accurate but don't take the chance. If you removed the long bolt from the cam sprocket be sure to re-torque the bolt.

I gotta call you for some clarification.

Rich