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Umm, Hi Eric.

Damned Bliznik!
Pat

You guys know that I'm kidding, right?

You know how I can turn my head to things that I don't agree with - right?

You also know how much I hate these lights, and how you're rubbing it in, right?

It's OK, you have bogus holes in your 914. That's OK, I can live with it - can you?

"Bad boy, bad boy......."

You guys just love to rile me up. Worked!
Pat

Hi Pat. I got a woodie when I saw Eric's Fog Light.
I went right out in the garage to show you the (3) holes I drilled out for my fogs. Oh Pat, we love to torment you, that's what friends are for.

Eric, I love your paint choice, it's beautiful.

Tom

BTW: I am just finishing up my 914 & should fire the motor next week after I mount the foggie light.

Here is the one going on #12

All the cool kids are doing it

Hi Glenn,

Do you need one of these (photo)?? I have an extra if you want it.

Tom

BTW: Pat we love pulling your CW strings.

Tom

That would be great, let me know the details!

It is euro pig, so dat is OK

Oh! This picture reminds me of a scene from Running Man! The horror!
Pat

I can just put a Porsche reflector over the holes if I don't like it

Bliz is a facilitator.

How about putting the reflector on 1st, then adding all the pieces. Give Pat a few more things to judge comes concours day.
Looking good Eric.

Seriously, all racing history aside, that light looks awful. It looks just as bad as putting a spoiler on the back of a teener...

Johny,

Code word for what you are saying

Help, I don't have one and want to buy a fog lamp for my car.

Tom

Dis ain't euro!

Why not add a nice set of those factory mud flaps? Now those will really set your 914 apart from the others.

Ahh, no.

I know them, understand them, find them very functional but also find them ugly.

She sure is euro!

First - this comment is not directed at Glenn. Since I moderate this forum, I feel that I need to set the record as straight as possible, with my limited knowledge.

Glenn, I know of your car. You can put any euro option on it that you wish - right down to the mud flaps. It's a Factory car, so anything goes. It's also a euro, like James Smith's & others on this forum. Those lights were readily available, and legal, in Europe. As I recollect, they were illegal in the US at the time.

But, and this is just me, if I were judging a US 914 in a concours, unless they could provide proof of originality for the rear fog (via COA or BOS), they'd get gigged for non-original equipment. As a judge, I make no distinction between local, regional, or national events. Unless you can prove that it's supposed to be on a US 914, you get gigged. Not necessarily hard, but all points matter. US 914 with the side markers filled in - gig. Doesn't matter if you've swithed all the lights. In fact, if you have - larger gigs.

This is an originality forum. Sorry if I p_iss off others, but that's what it is. Still we like to hear from the other-side-of-the-pond cars.
Pat

Pat no offense taken I know how you like the cars and I feel you PROPERLY judge the cars. Just curious, if you bought a euro car and they had to add side button lights to federalize do you get penalized?

Hey guys, I actually need to mount one of these rear fogs so I can export one of my cars for use in Portugal during the summer. I was able to source the inner mounting bracket (thanks Tom ) but I need the fog light and the exterior bracket that mounts to the fog. If anyone has one of either that they're willing to part with, please let me know. And sorry for the hijack.

Hi Glenn,

This is a learning moment. Porsche shows them in the parts book.

Glenn, your fog lamp lens is truly Euro. This info was verified by Wolfgang when he furnished my light. I'll post a comparsion of Euro & USA issue. Eric's is USA issue, same as mine. BTW: I know Eric has a Euro lens also (I sent him one).

See Photo's

Tom

Later on the lens photo's

T

Found the photo's showing the difference btwn. Euro & USA issue lens.
Glenn's is Euro lens.
BTW Glenn & Jonathan: I found (2) #87 brackets & the are in the mail.

Tom

Thanks Tom!
The Euro/USA lens is new info to me as well.
My friend had it on his tractor! he said he bought it in Germany many years ago. I told him that I must have it and he gave it to me.

Yeah Glenn, I would penalize. However, it's not an issue in the modern world. Though I'm a little curious....have you ever heard of someone frilling the fender to insert side markers?
Pat

I would think it would have been a necessary mod to legally register the car in the USA? Didn't they put them on Georges' 916 to make it legal?

Years ago I had a six that was a euro car and they put the side marker on it.
It really pained me to see that

Back when my Euro six was brought in, there were a host of documents that were required to be met (DOT and EPA). I chuckle now, as the solution to the side markers were to stick them on with bubble gum, snap a picture, and include it with the return documentation packet, and then promptly remove the marker. Fortunately they were few items that had to be changed to meet import requirements.

I do take copies of my approved import documents where ever I go should any government agency question me. This was typically true in the late '80s and early 90's when returning from trips to Canada. Now, they could careless about the car, just it's contents and the people within. They still pull me aside and check me out (to thegreat delight of my wife). Apparently I fit the profile of a smuggler....

Tom:

Don't forget to use a rubber grommet (#88) for the wire through the rear panel. You should be able to find one at any hardware store.

James

I'm not so sure that the two lenses are a Euro vs USA issue, rather a early vs late one. The left one being the earlier version.

(This discussion must be driving Pat nuts. <grin>)

It's like The Alien....it just won't die!

When someone does the Factory mudflaps.......well, that's when I call it quits.

Want to get rid of me? Put on the flaps. I'll be gone with one final comment in a nanosecond.

I ordered a new chrome unit from the UK. I'm saving the vintage lens for it. Thanks again Bliz.

I have a pair of factory mud flaps as well. I was considering them for the GT (ralley issue) but they really aren't made for the flares.

They'd be great for those backroads around Glenn Arbor or Harbor Springs... mint. If I weren't in bed with my netbook right now I'd rush out and grab a picture of the next "thing" to have.

There were factory mud flaps!?!

COOL!!!

I have a set of brackets and flaps for a late style rear valence, and brackets for the early valence. Anyone have a set of the early flaps that they are willing to part with, or loan for reproduction?

I can't miss the chance to dig Pat one more time. <grin>

Eric, Glenn & CW's

Pat, we do this because we like you Your more family fun to kick around than George Hussey & Jake Raby, because they carry a gun.

Now for the serious part. Anything in the factory parts book is legal add ons. Make's us different from the normal 914 crowd.
Tom

I don't carry a firearm. Too final.
I DO wear a K-Bar, though. Used to work in Philly - have to have SOME protection.

And once again I have to take ussue. Just because it is in the parts book doesn't make it appropriate in every space. Let's take, for example, Italian front/rear lights. Yepperdoodle, they are correct for Italy.....but not the US, because they weren't offerred on US cars from the dealers. Shouldn't have the side markers either, but if you COA indicates Italian delivery I guess you're OK.

Then there is the plehora of "euro" lights, which shouldn't have side markers either. But, so many think it's cool to have "euros". Wrong again!

Look, if you think that it's OK just because it's in the parts manual - think again, because you're incorrect.

Read the reg's on importation of early 70 cars - rear fogs were verbotten. H2/4's were the same. I'm sure that mud flaps were OK.

But, and this gets to the cruxt of the purpose of this forum, and I'm sorry to hurt my buds, rear fogs were not legal on early US 914s. Nor were they original. Yeah, they're cute (like your little sister with braces), but don't belong on US 914's.

I could have moved these posts a long time ago, but enjoyed the discourse. But let's get serious here.....they're bogus on a US 914, unless it has been exported to the Euro family.

Sorry, but that's the fact(s). And don't give me that crap about it being in the manual. That doesn't make it correct for the ROW.

To the newbies on originality, take note. Thing is, you old guys doing this should/do know better.
Pat

Guess it's time to whip out that photo of the "Patmobile" with the Euro lenses on the rear huh. And YES it does exist Oscar. I guess you were cool back then?

With this post I hereby crown myself King of the Rear Fog (although in all fairness the title should go to Mr. Bliznik.)

Behold:

A nice original Hella box arrived today:
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It had a new style lens but I immediately took it off (didn't want to be shunned by the judges for having a late model lense on my 74 914-6/GT recreation)
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Shiney new (look closely in the reflection and "gig" away at what I did to that poor 911!):
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I took out the new gasket:
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And bolted on the new (old) lens:
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Full on FOG!
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Dont forget the holes bored into the front pan for that aftermarket swaybar ...

Yep, I had them (in 1987). Gave them away after one year, because I would be slaughtered in concours. They were cool, but so wrong.
Now, excuse me for reminding readers here. This IS an originality forum.

Raer fogs WERE illegal in th US on 914's. That sorta makes them unoriginal, does it not? If that's the case, why do allow these posts on this forum.

Because I firmly believe that originality drives up the value of these cars. As my 914 stands right now, there is only one non-original part on it (ONE). That will change to two when I change the tires.

I will continue to allow "blasphemers" to show how they have degraded a 914, because that is the only way to maintain originality. I can counter every non-original thing you've done. And, it's broadcasted here, which is going to hurt your resale.

Yep, could have moved all these posts, but wanted those theat need help see that nice cars could trash originality upon whim.
Pat

Read my earlier post - that is one of two.

How original is yours?

I guess all depends on which country you're reading this thread from. I was under the impression that the world wide web was, well... "World Wide".

Is this forum a US only forum? If not, that sorta makes it a viable discussion, does it not?

So, being that the rear fog requires 3 holes, then this mod should mean that on equally prepared cars, the actual point dedcutions between your car and one with the rear light should be miniscule. In fact, if a car had a rear fog light and an uncracked original rain tray - all other issues being equal - it should beat you in the concour.... especially being that the issue is arguable from both sides and the part added to the car was indeed a listed factory part. Your addco bars were not. If the fog light were removed later, but the holes remained - again all other things being equal - would your deductions as a judge be consistant with deductions for the holes in your car?

My 914 is not and will not ever be stock. It is a relatively inexpensive toy that was purchased to play with/drive. The true councour cars we own were done as investments. I love cars, but to put 40, 50 even a 100 grand into a restoration, it must show as an asset on the balance sheet when it is completed - either in terms of resale value or in its appraised value.

*Edit*
I made a mistake above. To mount a front underbody sway bar actually requires two mounting holes per bracket - so, four holes. The rear fog only requires three, which would be a lesser points deduction than the front sway bar holes, making it the more original car.

Eric,

You make a very good point! In my "tunnel vision" point of view, I was only considering US delivery 914's.

To all those who have euro delivery 914's - I apologize - you can add rear fogs with impunity.

Now, to all US delivery 914, my stance stays the same - at the time of delivery of ANY US 914, rear fogs were illegal in the US, per DOT regulation.

Sorry, but in my eyes, thats makes them unoriginal.

Geez, how long will this thread last?
Pat

Factory mud flaps??? I could get factory mud flaps and still be original??? Oh my, I am so light headed right now

Go for it dude! They make your 914 ever so....what's the term....umm ugly, yeah thats's it!

Pat

So Eric, where were you able to find your rear fog? I've been looking online but I haven't found any.

I've been away from the site for awhile. I'm glad to see that there's another rear fog light thread!

Paul