Haven't even started to work on this yet, but the brake lights do not work. I was going to check out the bulbs of course and the switch, but lemme know if any of this is indicative of a greater problem (all fuses "look" fine):
* Interior light between seats is also non functional.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing).
Full Version: Next Project...Electrical Gremlins. Zis a Clue?
Ok, I'll hope to answer each in turn.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
Helps a lot...thanks.
Ok, I'll hope to answer each in turn.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 9 2009, 02:19 PM) 
Ok, I'll hope to answer each in turn.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
Mine is the same unless the battery voltage is high. Once i blip the throttle they work normal. I can't wait till you find the solution to this problem!
I already found the solution...blip the throttle!
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
Mine is the same unless the battery voltage is high. Once i blip the throttle they work normal. I can't wait till you find the solution to this problem!
QUOTE(underthetire @ Sep 9 2009, 02:46 PM)
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
Mine is the same unless the battery voltage is high. Once i blip the throttle they work normal. I can't wait till you find the solution to this problem!
So, are the brake lights wired "hot" (don't know since they've never worked on my car since I bought it), or do I need the ignition on?
Somewhere I read not to leave a 914's key "on" for too long before hitting the ignition, for some reason. So, if it's not wired "hot" do I just leave the car running while I check out the wiring?
Also, advice for tracing the brake circuit single handedly? How much weight do you need on the pedal? Broom stick?
Somewhere I read not to leave a 914's key "on" for too long before hitting the ignition, for some reason. So, if it's not wired "hot" do I just leave the car running while I check out the wiring?
Also, advice for tracing the brake circuit single handedly? How much weight do you need on the pedal? Broom stick?
So, is this also normal...when the key is off and the turn signal is put on, the outermost bulb comes on (not flashing), but when the ignition is on and you do the same thing, the center bulb comes on (flashing).
Ok, I'll hope to answer each in turn.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 9 2009, 02:19 PM)
Ok, I'll hope to answer each in turn.
* Brake lights - Unless the problem is a bad ground and therefore a circuitous path to ground, I'd say these are all unrelated. The pedal cluster swtch fails in the "on" position, or it only goes off when the pedal is fully returned. SO, check the power to the circuit and the ground at the tail lights.
* Interior light between seats is also non functional. - Could be related, but usually not. The interior light is powered hot and switched ground by the door switches. Clean them up and check that the light has hot "+" and you should be good there.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing. - Hmmm, I am not sure about this one, check grounds first as it appears to be tracing back through the whole circuit to complete.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing). - This is as designed and what you will see in most german cars. I am not sure of the law/use in germany but all my german cars up until the 90s do this.
I hope that helps.
The brake lights should be hot, ALL the time. so you don't need to leave the ignition on.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
"Blipping" was Underthetire, not me. My lack of brake lights is a consistent one. OK...dumb question (since my turn signal acts on two bulbs)...which bulb should light for turn and which one for brake? I guess I made it clear that the center bulb flashes with ignition on and turn signal activated, but the outer bulb lights for the same flasher when the ignition is off.
Where's is the ground for the rear lights?
Thanks again
The brake lights should be hot, ALL the time. so you don't need to leave the ignition on.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
Where's is the ground for the rear lights?
Thanks again
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 02:54 PM)
The brake lights should be hot, ALL the time. so you don't need to leave the ignition on.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
Oh, a couple of answers that I neglected from the original post.
Leaving the ignition on in a "points ignition" car can weld the points together, so that is why they say to not do it. I am also told that some other ignitions like Mallory or MSD can suffer in the long run, but I am no witness to that.
Your ground should be in the trunk on the back wall, or at least, that is where mine is.
the Rear light assembly is made up of 4 bulbs where one bulb has two filaments.
So in order from the outside in;
1. Running lamp (smaller bulb) - should only be on when the running lights are on
2. Turn signal bulb (single filament) - should flash with the appropriate turn signal as well as hazard flashers
3. Running lamp and Brake bulb (This one should be an 1157 bulb) - where the brake uses the larger filament and the running uses the smaller filament. Neither flashes ever in normal operation (unless you a playing with the pedal/switch
). (I have seen these forced in backward which doesn't do much but ruin the bulb or the receptacle and make the brake light dull on that side.
4. Backup light - single filament.
I am removed from my spec material (and my 914 for that matter) so I can't grab the book to reference the wires or the attachments, but the haynes book has the wiring diagram and the brown wire is the ground.
Make sure that is solid first as so much depends on a good ground path in this area.
Leaving the ignition on in a "points ignition" car can weld the points together, so that is why they say to not do it. I am also told that some other ignitions like Mallory or MSD can suffer in the long run, but I am no witness to that.
Your ground should be in the trunk on the back wall, or at least, that is where mine is.
the Rear light assembly is made up of 4 bulbs where one bulb has two filaments.
So in order from the outside in;
1. Running lamp (smaller bulb) - should only be on when the running lights are on
2. Turn signal bulb (single filament) - should flash with the appropriate turn signal as well as hazard flashers
3. Running lamp and Brake bulb (This one should be an 1157 bulb) - where the brake uses the larger filament and the running uses the smaller filament. Neither flashes ever in normal operation (unless you a playing with the pedal/switch
). (I have seen these forced in backward which doesn't do much but ruin the bulb or the receptacle and make the brake light dull on that side.4. Backup light - single filament.
I am removed from my spec material (and my 914 for that matter) so I can't grab the book to reference the wires or the attachments, but the haynes book has the wiring diagram and the brown wire is the ground.
Make sure that is solid first as so much depends on a good ground path in this area.
Looks like my ground is on the side wall behind the relay board box...buncha brown wires bolted to the body...right?
So, when I apply the turn signal levers with the car off, my running lamps (#1 and #3) are lighting up. When the ignition is on bulb #2 is flashing, and that is as it should be.
Oh, a couple of answers that I neglected from the original post.
Leaving the ignition on in a "points ignition" car can weld the points together, so that is why they say to not do it. I am also told that some other ignitions like Mallory or MSD can suffer in the long run, but I am no witness to that.
Your ground should be in the trunk on the back wall, or at least, that is where mine is.
the Rear light assembly is made up of 4 bulbs where one bulb has two filaments.
So in order from the outside in;
1. Running lamp (smaller bulb) - should only be on when the running lights are on
2. Turn signal bulb (single filament) - should flash with the appropriate turn signal as well as hazard flashers
3. Running lamp and Brake bulb (This one should be an 1157 bulb) - where the brake uses the larger filament and the running uses the smaller filament. Neither flashes ever in normal operation (unless you a playing with the pedal/switch ). (I have seen these forced in backward which doesn't do much but ruin the bulb or the receptacle and make the brake light dull on that side.
4. Backup light - single filament.
I am removed from my spec material (and my 914 for that matter) so I can't grab the book to reference the wires or the attachments, but the haynes book has the wiring diagram and the brown wire is the ground.
Make sure that is solid first as so much depends on a good ground path in this area.
So, when I apply the turn signal levers with the car off, my running lamps (#1 and #3) are lighting up. When the ignition is on bulb #2 is flashing, and that is as it should be.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 04:25 PM)
Oh, a couple of answers that I neglected from the original post.
Leaving the ignition on in a "points ignition" car can weld the points together, so that is why they say to not do it. I am also told that some other ignitions like Mallory or MSD can suffer in the long run, but I am no witness to that.
Your ground should be in the trunk on the back wall, or at least, that is where mine is.
the Rear light assembly is made up of 4 bulbs where one bulb has two filaments.
So in order from the outside in;
1. Running lamp (smaller bulb) - should only be on when the running lights are on
2. Turn signal bulb (single filament) - should flash with the appropriate turn signal as well as hazard flashers
3. Running lamp and Brake bulb (This one should be an 1157 bulb) - where the brake uses the larger filament and the running uses the smaller filament. Neither flashes ever in normal operation (unless you a playing with the pedal/switch
). (I have seen these forced in backward which doesn't do much but ruin the bulb or the receptacle and make the brake light dull on that side.4. Backup light - single filament.
I am removed from my spec material (and my 914 for that matter) so I can't grab the book to reference the wires or the attachments, but the haynes book has the wiring diagram and the brown wire is the ground.
Make sure that is solid first as so much depends on a good ground path in this area.
Well, I figured out the second one below. The right side rear turn signal bulb wasn't working...needed to put more "spring" in the contact. So now, the indicators on the dash work perfectly when engaging the turn signals.
Anyway...is my thinking correct here; if my third bulb (going inward), the double filament one that is the running light and brake light, works fine as a running light but not as a brake light, then obviously (at least to rookie wrench, moi) the bulb, ground and fixture itself are good. The problem must be in the brake switch or the wires to or from the switch (most likely the switch in that scenario).
Haven't even started to work on this yet, but the brake lights do not work. I was going to check out the bulbs of course and the switch, but lemme know if any of this is indicative of a greater problem (all fuses "look" fine):
* Interior light between seats is also non functional.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing).
Anyway...is my thinking correct here; if my third bulb (going inward), the double filament one that is the running light and brake light, works fine as a running light but not as a brake light, then obviously (at least to rookie wrench, moi) the bulb, ground and fixture itself are good. The problem must be in the brake switch or the wires to or from the switch (most likely the switch in that scenario).
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 9 2009, 02:05 PM)
Haven't even started to work on this yet, but the brake lights do not work. I was going to check out the bulbs of course and the switch, but lemme know if any of this is indicative of a greater problem (all fuses "look" fine):
* Interior light between seats is also non functional.
* Left turn signal lights normally on dash, but right one starts off with just the right arrow flashing but quickly turns to both arrows flashing.
* When ignition is totally off, using either turn signal causes each respective rear light to turn on (not flashing).
with both posts above.It looks like you have where to start.
I've had my brake switch fail before, and that is an easy, although surprisingly expensive fix (similar to the backup light switch price and how it boggles the mind).
I am glad you got this far!
With your help. I appreciate the education I've gotten from you and some others so freakin' much. If you're ever in Baltimore, the beer and crabs are on me.
with both posts above.
It looks like you have where to start.
I've had my brake switch fail before, and that is an easy, although surprisingly expensive fix (similar to the backup light switch price and how it boggles the mind).
I am glad you got this far!
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 05:31 PM)
with both posts above.It looks like you have where to start.
I've had my brake switch fail before, and that is an easy, although surprisingly expensive fix (similar to the backup light switch price and how it boggles the mind).
I am glad you got this far!
I had crabs before, but my girlfriend wasn't from baltimore... 
Seriously, no problem, glad to have helped and maybe once my 914 comes out of storage (when the kids get a little older) we can have a mid atlantic 914-fest!
Seriously, no problem, glad to have helped and maybe once my 914 comes out of storage (when the kids get a little older) we can have a mid atlantic 914-fest!
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
I had crabs before, but my girlfriend wasn't from baltimore...
Seriously, no problem, glad to have helped and maybe once my 914 comes out of storage (when the kids get a little older) we can have a mid atlantic 914-fest!
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 05:39 PM)
I had crabs before, but my girlfriend wasn't from baltimore...
Seriously, no problem, glad to have helped and maybe once my 914 comes out of storage (when the kids get a little older) we can have a mid atlantic 914-fest!
Well...used all y good 914World education and took the switch out. Had 12 volts at the positive line, and the switch seemed fine...ohms went to zero when the switch was open. I finally figured out that the adjustment screw was wayyyyyyyyy out. The only way my brake lights were gonna work was if somebody I dearly loved stepped off the curb in front of me! You could tell it had ben set that way for a long time...lock nut was tight and the exposed threads were dirty. Guess the PO didn't like brake lights.
Anyway, all is well now except:
When I hit the brake lights there's a rapid clicking sound in the left side of the dash...where the turn signal clicks come from. If I hit the turn signal when the brakes are on, it even makes a funky honking kinda sound. Relay in there doing that?
with both posts above.
It looks like you have where to start.
I've had my brake switch fail before, and that is an easy, although surprisingly expensive fix (similar to the backup light switch price and how it boggles the mind).
I am glad you got this far!
Anyway, all is well now except:
When I hit the brake lights there's a rapid clicking sound in the left side of the dash...where the turn signal clicks come from. If I hit the turn signal when the brakes are on, it even makes a funky honking kinda sound. Relay in there doing that?
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 05:31 PM)
with both posts above.It looks like you have where to start.
I've had my brake switch fail before, and that is an easy, although surprisingly expensive fix (similar to the backup light switch price and how it boggles the mind).
I am glad you got this far!
well, a funny honking sound is new to me. The brake circuit should be totally seperate from the turn signal curcuit, except for the ground to the tail lights. Hmmm, maybe there is more to it.
What year is your car? I'll try to pull the circuit flow diagrams to see if I am missing something.
There are more 914s in the NNJR PCA club than I certainly expected. At the last DE in WG we had 8 of them, which is a lot for 30+ yr old cars. Certainly there were not nearly as many similar age 911s there, only about 3.
1970. I also have some extra gauges in that area...amp meter and oil pressure. Just went out to listen again. When I hit the brakes, I get a rapid clicking sound in that area...sounds like the flasher. When it's making that sound, and I turn on the turn signal it alternates between doing two different things. It usually stops the clicking noise that the hitting the brake makes, or it makes a sound that sounds exactly like what a telegrah would make in a movie from the 1930s !!! A rather harsh dot-dot-dash kind of thing...almost like electrical arcing. 
well, a funny honking sound is new to me.
The brake circuit should be totally seperate from the turn signal curcuit, except for the ground to the tail lights. Hmmm, maybe there is more to it.
What year is your car? I'll try to pull the circuit flow diagrams to see if I am missing something.
There are more 914s in the NNJR PCA club than I certainly expected. At the last DE in WG we had 8 of them, which is a lot for 30+ yr old cars. Certainly there were not nearly as many similar age 911s there, only about 3.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 11 2009, 03:55 PM)
well, a funny honking sound is new to me. The brake circuit should be totally seperate from the turn signal curcuit, except for the ground to the tail lights. Hmmm, maybe there is more to it.
What year is your car? I'll try to pull the circuit flow diagrams to see if I am missing something.
There are more 914s in the NNJR PCA club than I certainly expected. At the last DE in WG we had 8 of them, which is a lot for 30+ yr old cars. Certainly there were not nearly as many similar age 911s there, only about 3.
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 10 2009, 05:44 PM)
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
I got my interior light working only this last week... It hadn't worked for at least 5 years.
Check the switches in the doors, some have 4 wires going to the switch, two of which are for the light and the other two are for the annoying buzzer. If you are not using the buzzer you can swap the door swtich out for a dual pole jobbie, rather than the quad version. Both of mine had failed and were not completing the circuit, so changed them both for the switches like the handbrake switch and they made the circuit complete.
Also in the past someone had changed the interior light for a very similar looking unit, but different at the back, so I replaced it with a proper light and it now doesn't fall out every corner and all works perfectly.
It's amazing how something so simple like an interior light can make my smile now it's working again!!
Check the switches in the doors, some have 4 wires going to the switch, two of which are for the light and the other two are for the annoying buzzer. If you are not using the buzzer you can swap the door swtich out for a dual pole jobbie, rather than the quad version. Both of mine had failed and were not completing the circuit, so changed them both for the switches like the handbrake switch and they made the circuit complete.
Also in the past someone had changed the interior light for a very similar looking unit, but different at the back, so I replaced it with a proper light and it now doesn't fall out every corner and all works perfectly.
It's amazing how something so simple like an interior light can make my smile now it's working again!!
Was that the yelow one on eBay last week?
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
QUOTE(flipb @ Sep 11 2009, 04:29 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 10 2009, 05:44 PM)
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
My interior light doesn't work either. Neither does the one in the trunk area. Still not sure how getting my brake light working stirred all this up, but that's why they're called "gremlins", right?
I got my interior light working only this last week... It hadn't worked for at least 5 years.
Check the switches in the doors, some have 4 wires going to the switch, two of which are for the light and the other two are for the annoying buzzer. If you are not using the buzzer you can swap the door swtich out for a dual pole jobbie, rather than the quad version. Both of mine had failed and were not completing the circuit, so changed them both for the switches like the handbrake switch and they made the circuit complete.
Also in the past someone had changed the interior light for a very similar looking unit, but different at the back, so I replaced it with a proper light and it now doesn't fall out every corner and all works perfectly.
It's amazing how something so simple like an interior light can make my smile now it's working again!!
QUOTE(Rod @ Sep 11 2009, 04:38 PM)
I got my interior light working only this last week... It hadn't worked for at least 5 years.
Check the switches in the doors, some have 4 wires going to the switch, two of which are for the light and the other two are for the annoying buzzer. If you are not using the buzzer you can swap the door swtich out for a dual pole jobbie, rather than the quad version. Both of mine had failed and were not completing the circuit, so changed them both for the switches like the handbrake switch and they made the circuit complete.
Also in the past someone had changed the interior light for a very similar looking unit, but different at the back, so I replaced it with a proper light and it now doesn't fall out every corner and all works perfectly.
It's amazing how something so simple like an interior light can make my smile now it's working again!!
Just figured out that the trunk light does work. Had to read my Haynes manual to find out that it goes on when the lights are turned on...not by a switch. No wonder I was having trouble finding the switch! Think any other cars have trunk lights that are consistently on whenever the lights are on? Seems rather dumb. Open your trunk at night and the light isn't on unless the headlights are on?
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 12:58 PM)
Think any other cars have trunk lights that are consistently on whenever the lights are on? Seems rather dumb. Open your trunk at night and the light isn't on unless the headlights are on?
But who else has their engine illuminated when driving at night?
How cool is that!
Andy
You have your engine in the trunk?
Think any other cars have trunk lights that are consistently on whenever the lights are on? Seems rather dumb. Open your trunk at night and the light isn't on unless the headlights are on?
But who else has their engine illuminated when driving at night?
How cool is that!
Andy
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 11 2009, 05:11 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 12:58 PM)
Think any other cars have trunk lights that are consistently on whenever the lights are on? Seems rather dumb. Open your trunk at night and the light isn't on unless the headlights are on?
But who else has their engine illuminated when driving at night?
How cool is that!
AndyQUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 01:22 PM)
You have your engine in the trunk?
The back of the trunk light is transparent (Some have black paint on them, some don't). It's mounted from the engine side.
Hence, the engine compartment is lit when the headlights are on!
Andy
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 11 2009, 10:30 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 01:22 PM)
You have your engine in the trunk?
The back of the trunk light is transparent (Some have black paint on them, some don't). It's mounted from the engine side.
Hence, the engine compartment is lit when the headlights are on!
AndyYep, mines lit up
looks very cool. Never really given it much thought before, but the placement of the interior light in the 914 is v v cool in itself. I'm tempted to install another under the dash though..
Yes dear (been married a few times...I've learned). 
You have your engine in the trunk?
The back of the trunk light is transparent (Some have black paint on them, some don't). It's mounted from the engine side.
Hence, the engine compartment is lit when the headlights are on!
Andy
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 11 2009, 05:30 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 01:22 PM)
You have your engine in the trunk?
The back of the trunk light is transparent (Some have black paint on them, some don't). It's mounted from the engine side.
Hence, the engine compartment is lit when the headlights are on!
Andy
BTW...somebody earlier said the brakes were wired hot. Mine are not.
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 01:56 PM)
Yes dear (been married a few times...I've learned).
QUOTE(SirAndy @ Sep 11 2009, 06:10 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 01:56 PM)
Yes dear (been married a few times...I've learned).
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 04:38 PM)
Was that the yelow one on eBay last week?
QUOTE(flipb @ Sep 11 2009, 04:29 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 10 2009, 05:44 PM)
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
Yep - I think you mentioned on my other thread that you talked to the owner?
Picking it up Sunday...
Congrats...very nice car.
Was that the yelow one on eBay last week?
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
Yep - I think you mentioned on my other thread that you talked to the owner?
Picking it up Sunday...
QUOTE(flipb @ Sep 11 2009, 11:11 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 11 2009, 04:38 PM)
Was that the yelow one on eBay last week?
QUOTE(flipb @ Sep 11 2009, 04:29 PM)
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 10 2009, 05:44 PM)
Sounds good...I even started a Yahoo site for Bawlmer area 914ers. Have six members...when we get to ten I'm organizing a lunch or something.
Sorry, I eliminated a candidate for your Yahoo group when I bought mine from the guy in Ellicott City...
Yep - I think you mentioned on my other thread that you talked to the owner?
Picking it up Sunday...
Well, that didn't take long.
Today was my my first pleasure drive after getting registration and putting on license plates. I volunteered to run to a grocery store after the kids went to bed.
Everything seemed dandy until I started noting electrical, uh, oddities.
The first was that the brake lights are permanently on. The aren't wired hot, so I hadn't noticed. I pulled off and tried various combinations of lights on/off, parking brake on/off - and while I didn't have anything with which to activate the pedal, all the combinations resulted in the brake lights staying on.
Assuming the the brake light switch needed adjustment, I tried to get a good look but eventually gave up on fully removing the floorboard under the pedals. (Could get it over the clutch, but not over the brake pedal.)
Other electrical oddities:
Both turn signals work correctly, but whenever using them, both left and right arrows flash in the instrument cluster.
Also, whenever a turn signal is on, the voltmeter bounces in rhythm with the signal.
The critical issue is brake lights - I can't get the state safety inspection sticker til they are working correctly. Not to mention the nervous feeling of some
in an Escalade following too closely...
So... whaddya think? Brake light switch needs adjustment? or replacement? (somebody noted earlier that they fail in the "on" position) or something else like bad ground?
Today was my my first pleasure drive after getting registration and putting on license plates. I volunteered to run to a grocery store after the kids went to bed.
Everything seemed dandy until I started noting electrical, uh, oddities.
The first was that the brake lights are permanently on. The aren't wired hot, so I hadn't noticed. I pulled off and tried various combinations of lights on/off, parking brake on/off - and while I didn't have anything with which to activate the pedal, all the combinations resulted in the brake lights staying on.
Assuming the the brake light switch needed adjustment, I tried to get a good look but eventually gave up on fully removing the floorboard under the pedals. (Could get it over the clutch, but not over the brake pedal.)
Other electrical oddities:
Both turn signals work correctly, but whenever using them, both left and right arrows flash in the instrument cluster.
Also, whenever a turn signal is on, the voltmeter bounces in rhythm with the signal.
The critical issue is brake lights - I can't get the state safety inspection sticker til they are working correctly. Not to mention the nervous feeling of some
in an Escalade following too closely... So... whaddya think? Brake light switch needs adjustment? or replacement? (somebody noted earlier that they fail in the "on" position) or something else like bad ground?
So...every time I turn on anything electrical now (hit brakes, turn on lights, radio, wipers), the flasher/emergency flasher relay (up behind the fuse panel) makes these sounds and won't stop! I'm guessing I need to clean all my ground points based on your statements below? It all started once I repaired my brake light switch that wasn't adjusted properly. Seems improbable that this is a coincidence.
The brake lights should be hot, ALL the time. so you don't need to leave the ignition on.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 10 2009, 02:54 PM)
The brake lights should be hot, ALL the time. so you don't need to leave the ignition on.
As for pressure, if you pull the foot board around the pedals, you will see the microswitch. You only need to get the pedal off of the microswitch washer for the switch to close and the brake lights to come on.
NOW, as your lights act differently depending on ignition, I think the FIRST thing you should do is clean and check the ground to the rear lamps. These sound like ground problems, or high resistance in the ground of the circuit. Increasing voltage (blipping the throttle) will mask these problems as the ground will be less obvious of a problem with a higher voltage. the flashing is very interesting, but as the power needs to go somewhere, it might actually be going back through the flasher circuit.
What happens is that without a good ground the electicity will flow to WHEREVER it finds ground and that can be back through the other bulbs, into their grounds instead of just terminating at the lamp. You will see this on the road of other cars when they press on the brake pedal and one side brake light lights nicely and the other cluster lights up all the lights dimly. This is the current finding a path, not to ground after the brake light, but through all the other bulbs (ground wire, backwards) and then to some other ground.
Does this make sense? This affects everyone with older cars, and it is a good thing to clean and re attach the grounds every once in a while as the trunk tends to get moisture in it from mediocre tail light seals.
Ken,
Fixing the brake lights by getting the micro switch to work and then having other issues does point out a good possibility of a ground issue. I know, I've said it before.
As for the hot/non-hot brakes. I checked and it seems that my 75 had brakes lights that are hot even with the ignition off but the 74 does not. I've not been upstate to look at the circuit diagrams to finalize this questions, so I have to leave you hanging.
The funny thing about ground issues is that instead of the current going to the ground point, it travels back up the other wires attached to that ground point and seeks a different path, SO it could make everything very interesting until the final ground is fixed.
I am going upstate next weekend and will get all my circuit diagrams then to try to help you out.
Fixing the brake lights by getting the micro switch to work and then having other issues does point out a good possibility of a ground issue. I know, I've said it before.
As for the hot/non-hot brakes. I checked and it seems that my 75 had brakes lights that are hot even with the ignition off but the 74 does not. I've not been upstate to look at the circuit diagrams to finalize this questions, so I have to leave you hanging.
The funny thing about ground issues is that instead of the current going to the ground point, it travels back up the other wires attached to that ground point and seeks a different path, SO it could make everything very interesting until the final ground is fixed.
I am going upstate next weekend and will get all my circuit diagrams then to try to help you out.
Thanks. If anybody knows where all the grounds are on a '70, I'd appreciate the information. I found the ground for the rear harness, on the wall in the rear trunk behind the relay panel box. Pretty sure I've seen one under the dash right above the fuse panel too. And of course, the one right next to the battery for the negative cable.
What is the "gang of four" on the driver side of the engine compartment where four red wires all connect to the same terminal by four connectors? Just curious.
Ken,
Fixing the brake lights by getting the micro switch to work and then having other issues does point out a good possibility of a ground issue. I know, I've said it before.
As for the hot/non-hot brakes. I checked and it seems that my 75 had brakes lights that are hot even with the ignition off but the 74 does not. I've not been upstate to look at the circuit diagrams to finalize this questions, so I have to leave you hanging.
The funny thing about ground issues is that instead of the current going to the ground point, it travels back up the other wires attached to that ground point and seeks a different path, SO it could make everything very interesting until the final ground is fixed.
I am going upstate next weekend and will get all my circuit diagrams then to try to help you out.
What is the "gang of four" on the driver side of the engine compartment where four red wires all connect to the same terminal by four connectors? Just curious.
QUOTE(Cupomeat @ Sep 21 2009, 04:51 PM)
Ken,
Fixing the brake lights by getting the micro switch to work and then having other issues does point out a good possibility of a ground issue. I know, I've said it before.
As for the hot/non-hot brakes. I checked and it seems that my 75 had brakes lights that are hot even with the ignition off but the 74 does not. I've not been upstate to look at the circuit diagrams to finalize this questions, so I have to leave you hanging.
The funny thing about ground issues is that instead of the current going to the ground point, it travels back up the other wires attached to that ground point and seeks a different path, SO it could make everything very interesting until the final ground is fixed.
I am going upstate next weekend and will get all my circuit diagrams then to try to help you out.
![popcorn[1].gif](http://www.914world.com/bbs2/style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)
OK...the parking brake bulb on the dash is missing (think I know why). Even though there's 12 volts there, there is resistance on the ground side and a bulb will not light there. That just might be my bad ground, right? Also, when I release the parking brake, I still have 12 volts there (probably why the bulb was taken out! So, I need to find out where the two brown ground wires off of the multi gauge are grounded. It's connection "B" in the schematic, #83. Anybody know where that is? Also, where is the parking brake switch located? I'm guessing it's bad (or not grounded?) since I always have 12 volts at the light, whether the brake is on or off.
OooooooooK...that's not the problem. The brake light switch was gunked up and would not work. A few squirts of WD40 fixed it, and the switch and light are working fine now. The problem (flasher relay squawking every time I use any thing electrical) is still with me. My next step is to find and clean ground "B" when I find it. This is getting crazy!
OK...the parking brake bulb on the dash is missing (think I know why). Even though there's 12 volts there, there is resistance on the ground side and a bulb will not light there. That just might be my bad ground, right? Also, when I release the parking brake, I still have 12 volts there (probably why the bulb was taken out! So, I need to find out where the two brown ground wires off of the multi gauge are grounded. It's connection "B" in the schematic, #83. Anybody know where that is? Also, where is the parking brake switch located? I'm guessing it's bad (or not grounded?) since I always have 12 volts at the light, whether the brake is on or off.
QUOTE(kenshapiro2002 @ Sep 22 2009, 06:04 PM)
OK...the parking brake bulb on the dash is missing (think I know why). Even though there's 12 volts there, there is resistance on the ground side and a bulb will not light there. That just might be my bad ground, right? Also, when I release the parking brake, I still have 12 volts there (probably why the bulb was taken out! So, I need to find out where the two brown ground wires off of the multi gauge are grounded. It's connection "B" in the schematic, #83. Anybody know where that is? Also, where is the parking brake switch located? I'm guessing it's bad (or not grounded?) since I always have 12 volts at the light, whether the brake is on or off.
Your first port of call should have been the earths, you did do this first yes? So often these go wrong, and the bulb/gauge/buzzer whatever it be, demands a ground signal and pulls it from elsewhere, doing all sorts of funny things 
Be 100% sure that the grounds are good and then continue with the diagnosis (and I'm sure that won't be necessary
)
EDIT - Sorry, just read your other thread - you're on the case already
It is up above the fuse box on mine too. all the door switches handbrake switch are switching the ground, so if you have a +12 at the dash light all the time, the problem is deffo the earth.
Be 100% sure that the grounds are good and then continue with the diagnosis (and I'm sure that won't be necessary
)EDIT - Sorry, just read your other thread - you're on the case already
It is up above the fuse box on mine too. all the door switches handbrake switch are switching the ground, so if you have a +12 at the dash light all the time, the problem is deffo the earth.
No...I don;t have 12v at the dash all the time...not at all. My mistake if I said that. The contact I see above the fuse box is where a bunch of red wires join...I'm looking for where all the browns get together. What am I missing here? In the Haynes schematic, gorund point "B" (#83) is where all the brown grounds hang out.
Why again would any[i] electrical switch on that circuit cause the buzzer/flasher relay to sound off? It will happen no matter what load is applied (brake lights, turn signal, wipers, headlights, radio).
Your first port of call should have been the earths, you did do this first yes? So often these go wrong, and the bulb/gauge/buzzer whatever it be, demands a ground signal and pulls it from elsewhere, doing all sorts of funny things
Be 100% sure that the grounds are good and then continue with the diagnosis (and I'm sure that won't be necessary )
EDIT - Sorry, just read your other thread - you're on the case already
It is up above the fuse box on mine too. all the door switches handbrake switch are switching the ground, so if you have a +12 at the dash light all the time, the problem is deffo the earth.
Why again would any[i] electrical switch on that circuit cause the buzzer/flasher relay to sound off? It will happen no matter what load is applied (brake lights, turn signal, wipers, headlights, radio).
QUOTE(Rod @ Sep 23 2009, 02:45 PM)
Your first port of call should have been the earths, you did do this first yes? So often these go wrong, and the bulb/gauge/buzzer whatever it be, demands a ground signal and pulls it from elsewhere, doing all sorts of funny things
Be 100% sure that the grounds are good and then continue with the diagnosis (and I'm sure that won't be necessary
)EDIT - Sorry, just read your other thread - you're on the case already
It is up above the fuse box on mine too. all the door switches handbrake switch are switching the ground, so if you have a +12 at the dash light all the time, the problem is deffo the earth.
Ken, the clcking you hear whenever the ignition is on may be your parking brake light. It is controlled by the switch under the handbrake, and also on the master cylinder. The light in your dash flashes (and clicks) when the e-brake is set, or if the master cylinder was drained.
On your master cylinder is the switch for the parking brake light, make sure it is connected and also press the reset button on it (it is a pole that you push in). I am assuming you were missing the bulb because the PO did not know how to get the light to stop flashing.
On your master cylinder is the switch for the parking brake light, make sure it is connected and also press the reset button on it (it is a pole that you push in). I am assuming you were missing the bulb because the PO did not know how to get the light to stop flashing.
The clicking is not whenever the ignition is on. It's as soon as I use any electrical switch with the ignition on. There's no reset button on my switch. The light does not flash. The switch is connected and I cleaned it up.
Ken, the clcking you hear whenever the ignition is on may be your parking brake light. It is controlled by the switch under the handbrake, and also on the master cylinder. The light in your dash flashes (and clicks) when the e-brake is set, or if the master cylinder was drained.
On your master cylinder is the switch for the parking brake light, make sure it is connected and also press the reset button on it (it is a pole that you push in). I am assuming you were missing the bulb because the PO did not know how to get the light to stop flashing.
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Sep 23 2009, 03:07 PM)
Ken, the clcking you hear whenever the ignition is on may be your parking brake light. It is controlled by the switch under the handbrake, and also on the master cylinder. The light in your dash flashes (and clicks) when the e-brake is set, or if the master cylinder was drained.
On your master cylinder is the switch for the parking brake light, make sure it is connected and also press the reset button on it (it is a pole that you push in). I am assuming you were missing the bulb because the PO did not know how to get the light to stop flashing.
There is the brake switch on your pedal cluster, then there is a brake warning switch on your master cylinder - you need to get under the car to get to it.
Yep...the one on the master cylinder...that was the one I was talking about. My switch has two poles and no reset switch.
There is the brake switch on your pedal cluster, then there is a brake warning switch on your master cylinder - you need to get under the car to get to it.
QUOTE(Travis Neff @ Sep 23 2009, 04:55 PM)
There is the brake switch on your pedal cluster, then there is a brake warning switch on your master cylinder - you need to get under the car to get to it.
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