Boy these damn cars can be a love hate relationship

Boy did it shift like new for 3 miles, Then the noise started and by the time I got stopped it will hardly roll, even in netrual. Brought it home on the trailer. Sounds like the dif blew up. It still shifts and will move but makes the box of rocks noise when ever the car is moved. In gear and out of gear.

Can you take the trani out without taking the engine out?
I have never tried.
Can the dif come out of the car while the trani is in place??

Pretty much count me out from the falling leaves tour.

I'm going to start drinking right away and maybe I'll take the traini out tomorrow.

I hate cars! I'm going to go ride my dirt bike.

I would trade this car for a bottle of single malt right now!

Yes you can take the tranny out without removing the motor.

I had mine half out.


Start by dropping the muffler, and get a jack under the box and support it to undo the two mounts.

use the parking brake to hold the rear wheels steady while you take the axle bolts out.

Undo the clutch cable, and then start undoing the engine to trans nuts. There are like 5 -6 and they are only 22ftlbs or so.

Lower the jack slightly, and start wiggling it off.

You can drain the fluid first if you like.

Sux man. To our host no less. Weird failure. You did put in tranny oil...

G.

Man

That is a tough deal. I just tore my spare box down or I would let you use it. I'm regearing it so it's on the shelf. There must be someone with a spare down there.

The tranny can come out with the engine in. It is quicker for sure. Be sure and support the engine. You can tip it quite a bit if the front engine mounts are decent.

Dave

Yep I filled it. $30 bucks worth of gl-4 redline gear oil.
The case was a spare I bought at the clinic. Mine was cracked. So I made one from the two of them. The Dif is the one that came in the case so the depth and lash should have been the same as it was before. Then I installed the gear stack that was built from the two of them.
After the clinic I was about to reinstall the motor and found the oil cooler was leaking. Then after I removed the cooler I found the cylinders leaking at the bases. So I tore them off and then reset all the deck heights again... This after a complete overhaul $2 grand plus 1500 miles ago...

This car is about to go to a new home.

Damn say it ain't so. Not sure what happened man. Your sure it's not a cv broke loose & only on part way? I don't see what could have screwed it up that bad unless there was something loose in it that caught in your stack. Man wish I had time to come up to help with it.

I'm trying to get my LE back together for the Falling leaf tour myself. I could pull the tranny out of my 73 for a temporary thing for you. You'd have to come get it though. I won't have time to make it up there before the drive. There is an option for you anyway . Don't give up on the teener

Damn, John... that sucks. My box doesn't have a seal kit in it yet, or I'd let you use it. I'm pretty sure that I'm free this Fri-Sat-Sun if there's anything I can help with.

If it doesn't work out, it's still be cool if you could make the Falling Leaves even without a Teener... either on the Duc on in the Xb.

I only drink The Glenlivet, will they work for the trade?

The McCallen 25 and its a deal!!

Hey Man, Its Dr. Evil up in Canada right now. This is not cool. I am very sorry you are having issues. I am about to head home (8hr drive) and will be available tomorrow to help you figure it out. Pleas post what you find. This is in no way a failure that one should expect and I am not sure what happened.

1 Q: You used GL4 not GL5? I am not sure if this would caused a catastrophic failure, but it is the only thing I can think of.

We will be in touch and I will see what I can do for you on my end.

Just got in from my drive. Man, my ass hurts from sitting for 8 hours.
John, You can call me if you have time. I will be trying to get some sleep since I have been awake since 2pm yesterday so if you can wait until 2pm my time when I will try to be awake, that would do well for me. I'll PM you my info if you dont have it already.

Some things I thought of on the long drive:
- Already asked about the oil used

- Did you put the washers under the bolts that hold on the output flanges? If the washers are left out the diff will bind.

- Maybe the big nut on the input shaft came off somehow?

You can definitely drop the tranz with engine still in the car. It is the only way I do it unless the engine has to come out for other reasons.

Looks like I may have got some bad advice at the local Porsche shop....
When I went to the RedLine Oil site they say they're gear oil is not for hypoid gears. Isn't the Ring and pinion gears hypoid?

http://www.redlineoil.com/product.aspx?pid=46&pcid=7

I can't imagine the ring and pinion would go bad in 4 miles. I don't think I even went that far. more like 2, I was only cruising too. didn't even reach 50mph....

I'll have it out later today and take a few pictures.

I would be shocked if the oil could grenade it in such a short amount of use, but we are in uncharted territory for me. This has never happened to any of my rebuilds or any other 914 that I personally know of. We may all learn an important lesson.

John,

That's a bummer. I have a spare box you can borrow if you want. Give me a call if you want it.

Jerry
360-577-9171

Thanks Jerry,
I bought a parts car that I pick up today so I should be set.
Thanks for the offer.
I think I have to keep at this 914, I would not want to lose touch with all these cool people on this site, Its amazing how many people have offered help.


I'm sure its some dumb clip or wrong oil.
Its just nuts and bolts.

Mike go to Bed!

Very cool Jerry~

Sounds like the R&P to me. Did you check backlash/preload/contact pattern when you put it together?

This bolt can cause R&P problems

Yep, I'm pretty sure its the R&P as well. We did not set the Backlash/preload. This R&P came in the case it is still in. Shouldn't all those settings be the same? We used only the gearstack and tail cover from the other case....

It depends.
There are shims on the pinion shaft (up against the front bearing) that help set pinion depth. If these went along
with the gear set, you *should* be OK......but it pays to check backlash to make sure. Lack of backlash or possible interference will gall the teeth....this can quickly degenerate into a hell of a mess.

It takes a bit of doing to check backlash but it is a quick reference to finger out if all is well in there.

The racket might be your carrier bearings as a preferred option.

We used the gear stack from another case? We did keep all the measurements of the int plate and the original pinion with the case, right? I cant remember, but I would not have had you assemble a tranny without having the proper parts matching so I bet we are ok. The big bolt can be a cause for this, as can bad diff bearings (all of which we checked). So weird.
Yes the diff is hypoid and here is a great explanation of why we need GL-5 vs 4.

From Benzworld.org:
"Re: Hypoid vs. Non-Hypoid Date: Tue, 09 Jan 1996 17:45:49 GMT Mark <74551.2327@CompuServe.COM> wrote: >Can someone explain the difference between Hypoid and Non-Hypoid >oil? "Hypoid" is not really a question of oil, so much as a question of gearcutting. Old (1920's) rear axles used straight bevel gears to form the crownwheel and pinion. These had two disadvantage, the pinion shaft meets the crownwheel on its central axis, and the straight cut gears are noisy. By using a more complex "hypoid" gear tooth shape (if you look at a pinion, the teeth appear twisted) these problems can be addressed. The more gradual engagement of the teeth along their length reduces noise. By careful design of the geometry the pinion can be made to mesh _below_ the axis of the crownwheel. As the centre height of the crownwheel is fixed by the wheel height, this allows the propshaft to be lowered relative to the car body, giving a clearer floorpan and lower centre of gravity for better cornering. Hypoid bevels are now universal in this application. Because of the sliding contact that hypoid gears make, their hydrodynamic contact pressure is higher. To be suitable for use with hypoid gears, a lubricant must be capable of resisting high pressures. Oils with "EP" ratings (Extreme Pressure) such as EP90 are required. Some brands describe themselves as "hypoid" instead, a term which is synonymous with EP. GL-5 is a formal API standard for this type of oil (comparable to MIL-L-2105B/C/D) > The book is telling me to use Non-Hypoid gear oil 80W or >80W/90 on the manual transmission and GL-5 hypoid gear oil 90W on >the rear axle. A manual transmission won't usually contain hypoid gears, so it doesn't need an EP oil. Rare exceptions are those transaxles where the crownwheel and gearbox share the same lubricant. Although an EP oil is more complex to manufacture, it has no disadvantages when used in instances where the EP attribute isn't strictly required. Manual steering boxes and other slow-moving oil-containing components are often filled with 90 weight oil. It's usual to buy EP90 because that's what the axle requires, then use the same oil for all other components. There's little practical difference between 80 & 90 weights. I fill everything with EP80 and I've never had a problem. There's an increasing trend amongst manufacturers to reduce the number of different lubricant types required. My own gearbox (5 speed Range Rover) runs on ATF, but 20W/50 engine oil or EP90 axle oil are equally permissible. -- Andy Dingley dingbat@codesmth.demon.co.uk"

I confirmed we used the correct int plate. The old one still has brass chunks in it from the bad bearing. I cannot tell about the big long shaft. But I am pretty sure we kept all of that stuff separate. We did use the end cap from the old trani on the new box and int plate. As I recall you said that didn't matter. The one that matched this case had the mounts rewelded on so we used the old cap. I'm going to remove the gearbox tonight. I don't hold much hope for the R&P but I do hope the gear stack is ok as thats the money part.
My parts car fell thru but I am working on another one now.
This freakin thing is getting fixed...
Quickly before it gets used to sitting around.
We all know how much 914 like to rest....and rust

I find it really hard to believe the oil could do that in 3 or 4 miles at less than 50mph

Yup, we didnt mix up the measurements. I, too, feel that the oil is not likely the cause, but since the question was brought up I felt I would post some info for posterity.

I have a 75 1.8 and 76 2.0 (swaybars) decent but neeed work.
parts cars to me. let me know if you want one.

More is better

benzworld.org huh





there a guy over there with the same handle as me

picking up a 75 2.0 liter in an hour.
Looked at it before. he was just high on the price.

I've had other 914's before but never more than one at a time....
Yesterday I would have about gave this thing away, now I have 2 of them.
I'm going to throw the other gearbox in and fix this one in time.