Just curious - what percentage of the concour forum are 914 only? Are there any concour collector/investors that are not brand specific on this list?

There are some fantastic deals out there right now where folks have way over restored a car in terms of cost, and are looking to get at least a bit of money back – even if it is at a huge overall loss. We have been finding cars at 50% of their “book” value – and many times the stated book value is far less than what these cars sell for at places like Barrett Jackson.

While I am sure there is more inventory in certain areas (like socal), I am also pretty surprised at what we have found locally.

Would love to know others thoughts…

My thoughts?

Welcome to the car bubble. The growth we saw was not sustainable in the least.


69 camaro for 100k? 10 years ago in high school those things were rotting in alleys behind houses.

Just another bubble, the prices of ALL collector vehicles have pretty much crashed because a lot of folks lost their retirement and those who could afford it now are like 100k for a 69 camaro?

Looks less appealing when your retirement is 1/3rd of what it was.

Everything is coming back to normal right now....... We had a period of bubble in just about every "market" imaginable, and the reality of jobloss and energy cost is also socking it to fun hobbies, and everything non essential.

Just natural order of things IMHO.

I agree on some makes and models, but there is some stuff out there that is rare, has a large and active following, had way to much money put into the restoration and are owned by folks that either need the money or have lost interest. We usually try and do a 10-20 prior year analysis of where the values have gone. You are absolutely right about the bubble. There is only one muscle car that I have ever really watched – the 60’s era Camaro. There is just something about that shape that I like. Over the past 5 or so years they have fluctuated up and down like crazy in terms of sale price – never a good sign. Overall, muscle cars values have slid like crazy from their peak.
The euro stuff has been far more consistent – especially the 1950’s and 60’s era stuff. Porsche has held its value, but the bargains seem to be very few and far between - at least on street cars – I haven’t done any digging on race cars. The race car vs. street car thing is another animal all to itself.

I still can’t believe that SWB GT 250 went for 12mil in today’s market. I would have guessed half of that at most.

Geeesh.....to be in HS 10 years ago!!!!

For us older Farts who've seen a few cycles, "...what goes up, must come down....[eventually]" & visa versa! .....etc., etc......

Unfortunately economies don't grow at a steady & measured even pace - but instead goes through wild gyrations up & down over time, but they do tend to grow over time on the whole.

IMHO - Some factors speak in favor of the long term trend on values/prices returning to the recent levels eventually for collecting cars in particular, are that:

1. Some of us drooled over the 60's Camaros, 70's Porsches, etc. way back then when they were new, & are willing to spend some time & dough in our later P.K. years (post-kids), & our free time in retirement years, to get those youthful dream "toys" for ourselves.

2. There is a huge cash bubble wrapped up in the Baby Boomers' savings, retirement & earnings as a whole - even if it has dropped in value currently (e.g.: our accounts & home values are off to 60% & 75% respectively). These values have bottomed out in real estate/homes to some extent, & started to recover in stocks now - but we're not out of the woods yet! They too will eventually recover in advance of other "less solid" investments, such as collectibles.

3. BTW - part of the reason that stocks, homes, REITs, 914s, etc. ran up so high, si because too much Baby Boomer money was chasing too little good investments, driving up prices beyond common sense, & adding to the "Boomer money bubble" pressures with the earnings/equity growth!

4. Cars as we know them - internal combustion - will start to phase out over time towards hybrids, flex-fuel/bio-fuel, EV, public transit, etc. over the coming decades - so the "nice old cars" will become ever more rare collector items & museum pieces. How many steam locomotives do you see today??.....a few in special "tour trains" & 3rd world countries. The same will eventually happen to 914s etc. over time. So I'm restoring my early 73 2L, & may get a roller in the future to do an 914-EV DD!?

5. IMHO - because the 914s were so maligned by the "real Porsche-types" & treated as "The Disposable Porsche" - so a ton of them have gone into the crusher & bone-yards.

6. Then the notorious rust problems doomed a bunch more, which was worse than comparable 356 & 911/912 of the era because of the polyurethane foam which they injected into the body panel gaps for insulation/etc., but it instead held the water at the sheet metal to conveniently speed-up the rust. Porsche did rust studies early on & knew about it, but didn't change the process (I think it's at Jeff Bowlsby's 914 info website)!

7. Ergo -even though there were +/- 117k 914s built vs. only 100k 356s built, there are probably fewer 914s in good condition or restorable, than 356s - notwithstanding that the latter are a decade or more older! So 914s are & will be rarer than the 356s & 911s - perhaps only challenged by 912s for rarity in that `50s-`70s sports car golden era.

BTW - those 60's Muscle Cars went up so much because they were very limited production off-shoots of main-line models, so the same holds for 914s & other collectibles, the rarer the more they're worth in any economy & the faster they'll appreciate. ....I just wish I could've afforded a 914-6 back in the day!

IMHO - not to worry, over time the values will return as the economy does so, then you can go slap-happy with high values on your beloved 914!

....but it's still best to use some restraint in your resto or customization projects!

I will say I agree 914's are undervalued, they are very rare now due to what you mentioned above, *AND* they are a very capable chassis.

I guarantee if there was something like the fast and furious to generate a bunch of interest or a pop icon such as a James Dean today with a 914, you would see them skyrocket in price.


Toyota Supra turbo, and RX-7 3rd gen turbo cars? They were cheap before the fast and furious movies.


Good luck getting either in this economy now for under 15k stock and clean..... Reality being they are like 4000-5000$ cars :|


The old euro stuff has kept it's value some, I have seen some good deals on 911's and a few on 914's as well in this economy.

My 914 is insured for about 5x what I paid for it, I picked it up during the death spiral of the USA talks around may/june this year.

It is a time of uncertainty. I made sure to get something I wanted during this time, as I knew that cash was king and people were hemmoraging cars.

I have seen a lot of hoarders coming off things cheap because they saw their nest egg slashed in value by so much, they can't help but dump cars/parts and other bits super cheap..........

That is what happens when you assume a peak is the standard in pricing/market. IMHO though it is all common sense.

I view my 914 as totally disposable and treat it as such. I modify and mess with it all the time. Don’t get me wrong, I try and do this tinkering and mods with a high level of quality (heck, I am sending out a pile of parts to Mr. Shea to have them replated this week), I simply don’t have any regard for what it does to the cars value. The 914 is all about fun on several levels. I can’t wait to hear the new 2.7 shrieking through a replica GT muffler!!!!
However, other cars in the fold are treated far differently – but they were purchased or restored under a completely different premise – as investments.
The “bubbles” are pretty easy to manage if you are conservative. Chart any collector cars value. If you see any giant increase in value, you know it is an anomaly. Chart the percentage increase before and after the jump, and use the average against the lowest price just prior to the jump. Then decide on the margin of return that is acceptable and you know how much to spend on the car/restoration. Could the bottom totally fall out? Sure, but the odds are heavily in your favor – unless you are restoring something that has a small market/very few people want.

I saw some really nice solid axle Vettes in the $60K range at Carlisle this year. I have no idea how many are changing hands at these prices, but I remember seeing similar asking prices for the past several years (i.e. a bit out of my range). Granted, the fuelies will always command higher prices, but most of the cars I saw had single or dual carbs and were, as the phrase goes, "over-restored."

You know, my first thought was to throw this thread elsewhere. But I thought about seeing where it would go, since the term "concours" was used in the opening.

I was going to throw it into another forum yesterday, but was too pissed off to make any comments. Still trying to curb my wrath, but YOU have really ruined the purpose of THIS forum. You have come with your own agenda, and that is "my 914 as totally disposable "!

Those of us purists in this forum could care less what you do with your 914, but you denegrate those of us who actually feel the 914 is a classic.
"Don’t get me wrong, I try and do this tinkering and mods with a high level of quality (heck, I am sending out a pile of parts to Mr. Shea to have them replated this week), I simply don’t have any regard for what it does to the cars value. "

You have no regard to what it does to the vars value? Why are you posting here? This is a forum for originalists/purists. Go back to the Garage.
Pat

Pat you seem to forget that is does not have to be original to be Concours. I view this as a Concours forum more than where I go to get historical and correct info, there are much better places on the net for that.

Scott's car is every bit of a Concours level car, and Scott is very much a person who appreciates original cars. If you saw what else was in his garage you would know that.

He's not ruining anything, rather I find your attitude a little off base.

WELL ...heres my opinion....I have lived thru four...thats 4...economic down turns in the economy.in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, and 2008s.and continuing.. I was an avid 356 porsche guy...0wned them, raced them+/- 25 years,manufactured parts for,em, built and rebuilt them...simply put the damn 356.s are WAY overpriced for what they are..In terms of technology,.of course so are the V.w.,s to an extent...IN the "PORSCHE" brand name you have one of the worlds most recognized "brand names". Therefore you will pay for it. Having also owned a few 914s over the years, It,s my opinion that the 914 ...Is Relatively UNDERVALUED....as compaired to comparable 356s, or some 911s. there are FAR more dailey driver 914s than 356s. The majority of 356s are garage queens...or "garage garbage"..wating for a NOT forthcoming total restoration which it needs. The owners have a (inbread) source of self delusion, about the time and expense to restore them...and frankly they don,t care because they never intend to do it. more than a few just have them so they can be a "car guy".and hang out with the real 356 owners who drive them occasionaly. The 914 is a hell of car...Still today kicking ass in autocrosses, and roadracing. THIS is because the chassis,(platform,) suspension, drivetrain,and engine benefited from a much later "PORSCHE" engineering technology.(and carried thru into the 911s for at least twenty years or more)...911 parts will retrofit (relatively)easily into the 914...there are still more..many more 914s in existance than 356s.The 914 is one of the least expensive, best handling, value for your money ,sports car available. and for many reasons will never reach the unrealistic heights of inflated value of some of the speciality porsches. Simply put not many of the 914s will ever be "COLLECTOR" cars...in my opinion...which for the majority of us may be a good thing, because we can use'em, drive;em and enjoy them.without the obligation of having to deal with the "collector" turd heads fucking up a very good thing..IN MY OPINION...addendum...after considering some opinions on present and future value....Modified cars, barret jackson I have seen modified , not original as manufactured cars sell for much less than it could possably cost to do the "modifications,upgrades,"...was It worth it to the seller to sell? at a loss, of both time, money and effort/aggrivation/etc.?..APPARENTLY SO. circumstances for us all change...BUT ...the real cars, collectable, 914s, (916) will ALWAYS be the leader in value...and compair that value to a "copy-cat" reproduction...Maybe..10 to 15 percent of the original is a fair value range....all of this slowly drags up the value of every 914, inc. 1.7s and 1.8s. Your expendatures to "update, reproduce, and modify" your 914 into a "six" may have more value than a lower value ..4.. but I think you are trying, a little too hard, to convince others that what you have done has a GREAT deal of value. time wiil tell of course.

My initial post was directly related to concour car investment. It is very common for those who participate in this part of the hobby to own more than one car/marque, or to have owned other concour cars in the past.

My 914 was heavily modified when I bought it. Because I have the smarts to not dump tens of thousands of dollars into a restoration that will never offer any return, I enjoy it for what it is. It appears that when YOU think a car is not stock enough, or is not being restored to stock, that is beneath you – it is to be frowned upon. Perhaps all non stock cars (“stock” according to you) should be crushed.

Pat – YOU ruin this forum. You have no interest in promoting participation in concour events. You exist only to judge others. You bash on Porsche and PCA events, you bash on others cars . Interestingly, it is people like YOU that keep people from participating in these activities – the complete opposite of what someone in your position should be trying to accomplish. If everyone is so terrible, why are you even interested in moderating this forum? What do you gain? It comes across as simply some pathetic last grab for recognition – which is truly funny, as you don’t even participate in any actual events or restorations.

I am sorry for whatever events in your life have lead you to become such a bitter and truly ridiculous person. It is too bad, as I respect your knowledge and research very much. It’s your attitude and ego that ruin it – interestingly, those are same traits that you have said ruin todays PCA events/car culture…. on multiple occasions…..


To the rest of you, thanks for your thoughts.

Wrong. This is an "originality" forum, not a concours forum - I gave that idea up 2 years ago & moved forward. Anyone, in todays spphere can make a car "clean", but that doesn't make it concours. No matter.

The purpose of the forum is ORIGINALITY foremost.

Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of 914 derivatives that I lust after, some really cool & masterpieces.

Point is....this forum is/has been designed for originality. I applaud anyone who does anything to bring a 914 back to the road. I'm just saying that this discussion, which started out innocently enough, has digressed from the purpose of this forum. That's all! Though I did have a personal problem with the throw away text.
Pat

Scott,
Thanks for your kind thoughts.

Now, to the purpose of this forum....

This forum is designed for people who are looking for, or crave originality in 914's. It's been stated so since the beginning of the forum. It is very definitely NOT a concours forum, though we try to help those who are trying to do so.

Your original post was just fine, but it went south from there.
"My 914 was heavily modified when I bought it". That should have told you that this was not the proper forum.

"Pat – YOU ruin this forum. You have no interest in promoting participation in concour events. " Au contraire, my friend, but we strongly disagree on what a "concours" car is. And please, expound on how the lowly I ruin this forum. Please give me some examples.

"You bash on Porsche and PCA events". Yes I do, because they (PCA) long ago lost focus (I'm a 36 year member - been there & seen the changes - don't like them, but that's just me). NO, I still think PCA has gone the wrong direction in many aspects.

And, finally "why are you even interested in moderating this forum? " Well, there are no more than 5 or 6 peoplethat I would entrust this forum to. Because they are also "oiginalists". I'll step aside to any of them anytime, or be deposed. But I only hope that they will continue the originality purpose.

Next question, please.
Pat

When did I miss the memo that this was not the Concours forum as well? Sure seems silly to me to have the need for a entire new forum just for Concours. But that sure seems like what Pat wants.

Am I missing something? Yes, I can read what the forum title is and it's description, but it was also my impression that Concours talk belonged here. Hell the original reason you stated for not moving this to begin with is because you saw the term Concours used and wanted to see where it went. Seems like one person accepting what is current reality regarding what qualifys as Concours is not to much to ask.

Regarding what Scott said, I agree 100% , and IMO, Pat you are the one who derailed the thread, Scott was only explaining how his car didn't qualify, how it's his personal toy and not a investment, the original discussion pertaining the market and how investment quality 914's fit into it remained.

Still waiting for a apology to Scott as well,

"but you denegrate those of us who actually feel the 914 is a classic"

really, want to explain yourself there Pat?

No, no…. I will apologize.

I was unaware of any prior decisions that this forum did not include concours discussions. I posted my question/findings in an the area that I assumed would have the highest concentration of collectors and investors to get input on what others were finding on the investment front. It has been made very clear that discussion is unwelcome. I apologize for making this horrible horrible mistake. Not only that, to atone for my sins, I will make sure to alert the management of any post that does not deal specifically with color or texture so it can be moved or deleted.

I will also apologize for bruising certain peoples egos with the financial facts behind doing a full concours restoration on a 914. I love my car – I wouldn’t own it if I didn’t. But from purely a balance sheet/ROI perspective - unless it is something special (-6, GT, etc) - the good old fashioned 914-4 is a terrible full restoration investment. Sorry about that.

I have one suggestion for this forum. Based on these profound words of wisdom “"My 914 was heavily modified when I bought it". That should have told you that this was not the proper forum”, perhaps this should be a locked forum, requiring that anyone who wishes to post here prove that they own an unaltered car to the moderator prior to being allowed to ask a question or participate in any discussion. It is well known that owning a modified car means that you could not possibly have anything to contribute…

Scott which cars in particular have you seen dropping significantly in price? Mainly American muscle cars or Euros as well?

Scott, I get the inneundum! Now, I'll try to open this thread (rather that closing it) to...just what do the masses think "concours" means, and it IS an open topic to this forum. But let me impart my thoughts, since I'm an oldtimer.

I've found no contemporary meaning to the term - probably does exist, but I haven't found it.

But, this is my definition - "preservation/restoration of a specific vehicle to it's original state". By that, I mean no modifications other that "as delivered by the factory". Don't care if you have a '52 Ferrari Boattail, 69 Z28, or a 2009 Audi A8.
Concours isn't just cleanliness or detailing. Anyone can hire someone to detail a frog.

Concours is showing a car that people lust after, in it's original state. Doesn't have to be restored. Doesn't have to be overly detailed. Should be original. How many of us have seen original 30's vintage Euro cars with cracked original leather, road rash, etc. Cleaned up, they are "survivors". They are concours. They are original. They are usually beautiful in they're own way.

Now, with that said, I know a hoard of gorgeuos cars, 914's included, that are super detailed (not concours - the difference). I respect them for what they are. I would call them "Show Cars", instead of concours.
I can respect them, because I know that my lowly 72 will never compete wit them. But, if the situation ocurred..........
Pat

ps: Though I'm the Moderator of this forum, I find this thread interesting and harmless. In fact, I find it helpful.

Hmmmmmm

If a significant proportion of '63 - '67 Sting Ray owners radiused their wheel wells, swapped out the proper engine for a crate motor, installed late model Corvette seats, or turned them into Grand Sport clones, what message would that send to the "market" regarding the value of original spec cars? Is that group of owners doing that?

Or,
On the far other side of the spectrum, who is preserving, say, a nice original 1992 Civic coupe? Keeping it clean, garaged, completely original. And if someone was keeping such a car in concours condition, how many years would it ever take to get its original cost back?

I think that the "market" views a car that is frequently modified, altered, or otherwise noticably changed from original factory configuration to be worth measurably less than those vehicles that the owners have either resisted modifying or have endeavored to return to OEM condition. As examples of this I would submit early Corvettes, 356s, early 911s, '60s Mustangs, '55-'57 Chevys, big Healys and '40-'60s XK series Jaguars.

With so many 914s being significantly modified and re-configured from original spec, the implied message sent says that these cars have no real merit or value "as built", so the 914 can still be considered a"throw-away" or disposible car.

I know that owners "resto-mod" TR-6s, certain MGs, particular Alfas, but those are usually the exception rather than the rule.

I purchased my 914 34 years ago because I liked so many aspects of its design and execution. The passing years have merely affirmed my initial passion for the 914. I did not buy it for the Porsche name, nor was "investment" or "collector" even in my vocabulary back then. Today, the cars' valuation, status (or lack thereof) do not concern me. If my 914 becomes increasingly more valuable, that is fine, but I still have no desire to part with it. It just seems that the appreciation of the car "as designed" is consistently and manifestly degraded as every 914 is
reconfigured from its original build. Does one do an "extreme home makeover" on a house on the National Historic Registry? Do you "Pimp my ride" to a Series I XK-E? Do you drag a SI swimsuit model off for a facelift?

I suppose the analogy (and its a "stretch" I'll admit) that for Pat and me, to see a 914 irreversibly altered is akin to seeing your childhood home torn down or your old sandlot ballfield turned into yet another strip center.

Paul

As usual, well said Paul.

But, then again, we are dinosaurs.
Pat

Dunno, for an example. Guy A has a concours and I mean nicest you have ever laid your eyes on 73 1.7, tops it's gonna be worth 18-20k Tops. And I'm talking a Parade winner car here.

Now Guy B, finds a nice 73 1.7 solid tub for 1500. They do a bare shell build, cutting no corners, they watch the budget do a ton of stuff themselves all the popular upgrades, 5 bolt, sways ect, and drop in a six (any size you choose). They end up with a 100 point car, again, a Parade winner car here. (yes, Pat it's concours) All possible for 20k and time.

Wanna guess which car is worth more on the market , also wanna guess which car is going to draw in more interest from a broader specturm of people and overall increase interest in these cars, leading to the overall values going up.

The Muscle car analogy only works to a point... Like 914's the top cars drive the market, the boss mustangs, the copo's, the hemi's. In our case the six's will always be the market setters with the 4cyc cars riding on coat tails. Sometimes it makes perfect sense to upgrade a lesser car.

How many 66 mustang fastbacks do you think had the straight sixes ripped out and 289's dropped in over the years. Has that hurt the overall mustang market? Not at all, it's opened up more interest and created a whole new segment of owners.

Ferg,
I see your point, but the facts are:
1. A matching numbers, preserved car will always bring a better return on investment.
2. The market is severely limited for high paying conversions.
3. Conversions have no provenance. They will ultimately die on the vine.
4. A concours prepared conversion, though they can be extremely well prepared, will never be invited to a high end multi-marque concourse (well, maybe a local one). Provenance is something built and earned, and original.

"How many 66 mustang fastbacks do you think had the straight sixes ripped out and 289's dropped in over the years". How many Corvettes have been brutalized.

The Factory numbers tell the tale for value. If it's wrong, it's wrong & the value will be reduced significantly.

Talk to the guys from Barrett-Jackson. That's were I'll go to sell my 73T and my 914.

Pat

For many of us who came of age during the halycon automotive days of the '60s, we can recall that it was quite common that when a car reached a certain age and/or monetary value, "customiziing" (as it was often referred to) was virtually a "given". I recall clearly the mid-to-late '60s being the province of '55-56-57 Chevys that had engine transplants, custom wheels, radiused wheel wells, hood scoops, "traction bars", suspensions raised/lowered, interiors gutted, modified or "tucked & rolled", headers and lake pipes fitted, and of course, lots of custom paint, with special focus on "candy apple" and metalflake finishes.

The Chevy trio was by no means alone here. Old Corvettes were also a popular canvas to be automotively creative upon. These cars were very inexpensive back then, and no one was thinking that someday these cars would be worth anything. I remember in 1968 looking at a split-window for $2000. My girlfiend (destined to become my wife) was looking at a '65 Corvette Roadster for $2500 during the same time period.

By this time (1968), early full size Chevy's from '61-'63 were also being "improved" with engine swaps, intake upgrades, wheel and tire increases and body mods.

As the first generation Mustang got really cheap by the late '60s, once again the litany of engine, transmission, tire, acccesory, paint and bodywork customizing was visited upon that model.

By the turn of the decade, even the vaunted icons of that era were considered fodder for the welders torch, the mechanics wrench and the bodymans paint gun. GTOs, 442s, Chargers, Road Runners, Chevelle SSs and all manner of both hot and mundane coupes and hardtops underwent mild to extreme modifications.
The cars were all relatively cheap and there was a vast selection to chose from.

All this background is by way of addressing the fact that TODAY, it is uncommon to to take a perfectly good example of a desirable car and significantly modify it. Yes, I'm fully aware of "resto-mods" and I am also of the belief that those who worship in that church fully realize that the cost vs return benefit is almost always a negative dollar amount. Even staight 6 Mustangs from the mid '60s or plain vanilla Tempest coupes have their advocates who want nothing more than a talisman from their youth and the memories that it can evoke.

I am convinced that significant alterations (body mods, engine swaps) done to a noticable proportion of a models' production numbers debase that model's value.
Once again, there are exceptions (Outlaw 356s for example), but who is radicalizing a solid 240 Z or a BMW 2002 these days?

But as Pat and I have oft discussed, there may come a time when there are more 914 GTs and /6s around than narrow bodied /4s

Paul

I'm going to have to disagree with you on every one of your points... I'm going to include myself with a handfull of other memebers who have always had, and currently have a real connection on what's happening in the 914 market. I have been tracking sales, both public and private for about 8 years now, and consider myself pretty on top of things.

1. A nice six conversion is going to appeal to more people and bring more $ than a low mile mint 1.7 or 1.8. That's not a opinion, but what the market has shown. A 2.0 is a better match for a six conversion all things being equal.

2. High quality six conversions have a strong market, many people DO want a car that's built to be enjoyed, not preserved and they are willing to pay for it. Not as much as a orig six, but more than a show worthy 1.7 and 1.8 (that would be in my opinion the "smallest market" in the 914 world).

3. Conversions, when done properly can stir the soul just as much as the real deal, sometimes more. I've had a real six, and a six conversion, wanna guess which one I wish I never sold, and was a award winner wanna guess what car won the modified class at Keystone Parade was? A conversion a beautiful black 74 conversion.

4. Again, false, in the last 5 years, I've been to the Montery Historics, Italiano, Colorado Grand ect ect. I saw replica's of low production or specials at every one of them (Jags Ferrari's you name it). We had Emory's 356 outlaw in the "founders circle" up in Keystone at Parade this summer.

5. Good luck at Barrett Jackson your "porsh" will do well there for the buyer. Horrible place to sell either of you cars.

Paul, I see you point and certainly agree with you on the current "resto mod" phase.

I guess for me it comes down to the quality of work and what was used to start with. I guess I feel it's perfectly ok to take the lowest of trim models on any car range and when done correctly turn it into a swan. Yes, it will never be worth more than the car it's aspiring to be, but many times it will be worth more than what what used.

I track a broad range of hobby cars (call it my hobby) I recently saw a 74 260 Z with a very nicely done v8 swap bring 25k on ebay. I think its safe to assume not many stock 260's and few 240's could pull that kind of $.

Some mods and builds cetainly go way off track and will bring negitive returns, and I certainly don't condone taking a nice stock car and butcher it (I recently turned back a inquiry on my black 74 when I learned it was for a v8 swap, they decided on a different car anyhow, but I was not going to let that happen to mine.)

"How many 66 mustang fastbacks do you think had the straight sixes ripped out and 289's dropped in over the years". How many Corvettes have been brutalized.

The Factory numbers tell the tale for value. If it's wrong, it's wrong & the value will be reduced significantly.

Talk to the guys from Barrett-Jackson. That's were I'll go to sell my 73T and my 914."


Really?
Wow. Then I did something really wrong. I made a horrible mistake and sold a non k-code 1966 mustang that had been converted to a GT350H using all 1966 date coded Shelby parts for 10 times (again - that is TEN times) what I paid for it. I should call the guy and get him his money back – except he sold it last spring for more than he paid me…. Crap. Now I really feel bad.

Man-o-man, I better follow the advice out here before I make any more horrible mistakes…..

Please, lets try not to get ones personal love for any particular car confused with the business of investing – which was the purpose of this thread before you got your feelings hurt by the realities of the current market.

To expand - and then up the anti – on what Ferg said, I “double dog dare you” to sell your car at BJ.

UPDATE:

Last night on Barrett –
- 1957 Chevy #1 – recent full documented rotisserie restoration. Rare factory optioned car. Perfect. = $95,000

- 1957 Chevy #2 – Older frame off restoration (early 90’s). Big block “pro street” conversion. Tubbed rear end, lots of chrome/polished aluminum = $94,000


Also…
“4. A concours prepared conversion, though they can be extremely well prepared, will never be invited to a high end multi-marque concourse (well, maybe a local one). Provenance is something built and earned, and original.”

http://www.hotrod.com/eventcoverage/2001_p...ours/index.html

oops.

I would suggest that there a far better platforms and cars to modify if you are seeking a large ROI.
I too buy and sell a few cars per year...I stick with older Porsches.
The hard part with the 356 is getting a real numbers matching car...lids, doors etc are all stamped with the VIN.

A mustang, a beetle, or a 55 chevy would be alot easier to make money with than a modifed 914...

Rich