Looking for some suspension bushing suggestions, Which is best? How hard to install? Any recommendations or advice Options

[nsr-jamie]

... just curious how is your ride and what kind of driving are you doing? (race? DD? fun car? AX?)

Mine is basically a race car I keep on the street (daily driver) and it's quite stiff, but the stiffness isn't from the bushings. It's from the 23mm front torsion bars, the 22mm front sway-bar, Bilstein sport front inserts, the 200# rear springs, and koni gas adjustable shocks. Road race cars make for the most fun road cars because the elements we face on the road are more like a road-race track than an AX.

My car is built for road-track use and it's not set-up to do AX unless I make big changes to soften the front (sway-bar adjustments) and/or stiffen the rear with a shock adjustment... usually both. Plus the clutch-type 60/40 LSD makes for a push on tight AX elements. But as I said it's a daily driver and I live very close to some great mountain roads.

I like nothing better than to go out into the twisty roads and push the car. Those Elephant bushings made a dramatic difference in the crispness of my turns. Nothing will make you quicker than confidence that when you make a steering input, that you feel the car respond the same way every time, and that it happens RIGHT NOW!

The non-stock bushings don't stiffen the car but they simply do two things:

1. With proper installation they give our swing arms the ability to move freely and NOT become part of the spring equation with drag. That would make them spring-dampeners.
2. They reduce (in directions that steal energy from your steering input) suspension arm movement. The biggest benefit you will get is a crispness in steering that, if you're "tuned" to your car with rubber or old bushings, you will notice immediately.

None of these are going to increase the impact of the road on your butt. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) That's purely a function of your springs, shocks (which are a kind of spring) and the weight of the car.

Thank you !! That is exactly what I wanted to hear....I am kind of leaning towards the Elephant bushings now after hearing that, that is basically how my car is used for too, weekend mountain cruising....I don't mind paying a little more for better performance, thank you

Jamie

[nsr-jamie]

Where would be the best place to order Elephant bushings?? Seems like most of the shops I find on the regular sites all have the same price....any places offering better than list prices? Also how hard is it to install these bushings? Should I have them professionally installed or try it myself? I have never tried this before but have access to most tools from my work.

[tradisrad]

Elephant Racing is in San Jose. Give Chuck a call and have him ship them to you.
I installed my bushings my self. It was not too hard to do, take care when drilling and tapping for the grease fittings on the rear. Also check out Rebel Racing bushings they dont require the low friction mounts that elephant recommends for their front bushings. I think Koozy used the Rebel bushings.
Oh, my driving is mostly DD with some weekend twists and turns. The car rides better than my subaru.

[nsr-jamie]

Elephant Racing is in San Jose. Give Chuck a call and have him ship them to you.
I installed my bushings my self. It was not too hard to do, take care when drilling and tapping for the grease fittings on the rear. Also check out Rebel Racing bushings they dont require the low friction mounts that elephant recommends for their front bushings. I think Koozy used the Rebel bushings.
Oh, my driving is mostly DD with some weekend twists and turns. The car rides better than my subaru.

Thanks !! I will try to find more info to get in touch with Elephant directly....I always thought Tarret Engineering made those bushings...

I have never heard of the Rebel Racing ones but will check them out, thank you for the advice and tips. Much appreciated !!

Nice to hear these bushings also work on daily driver cars....my car will be more of a weekend fun car with occasional race events and some drives to work, cheers!!

[pcar916]

No experience with the Rebel Racing bushings but I installed the Elephants myself. A few notes about the installation.

Prerequisite: Mark all of your suspension points for alignment so you can get it back as close as possible to where it is now, assuming it's already aligned properly.

1. The rears come with a new shaft as well so there is no preparation on the old one. A drill and a propane torch will make removing the old ones a lot easier than simply digging them out of your trailing arm bosses.

2. At least with the fronts, you will probably need access to a press (and very soapy water) to get the outer bushings into your pieces. I tried it with a small arbor press first but fell back onto my hydraulic press when that wasn't quite enough. If your vice is the size of Montana it may be enough, but don't bet on it.

3. On the fronts the grease nipples are already installed, so make sure that the side of the nipple doesn't interfere with the seating of the new bushings into your collars. You'll know what I'm saying when you get them if you go with Elephant. It's trivial to do a little light filing before you install them.

If you're mechanically minded it's a great job to tackle. Then there's the alignment afterward and off to the twisties!

Good luck!

[tradisrad]

Good point to mention removal of the rear rubber bushings, this was the most difficult part to do. Chuck (at Elephant) suggest in the directions that you drill out the rubber of the trailing arm bushings. This method is a joke. Use a puller, like McMark suggested here and it made a world of difference. It's the only way to go. Here is Elephants phone # 1 408-297-2789

[nsr-jamie]

Thanks!! This is super helpful!!!!! I really appreciate it!!!! I am also going to install turbo tie rods and a bump steer kit as well...I am not sure if I can handle this by myself so I may have to leave it to a pro mechanic (my good friend here in Japan)

[tradisrad]

Jamie,
You can do the work your self it is not that hard and it's rewarding. The Elephant front bushings require JB Weld for the install; can you get that in Japan?
The trubo tie rods are also a nice improvement, there was an issue 9in the past) of the rubber boots being of poor quality and I am not sure how that issue stands today.

I also replaced my rubber steering donut with a aluminum billet coupler, we may have taked about this in another thread. But if it is something you want to do this is the time to do it.

let us know how it goes.
-Rob

[Als914]

Where would be the best place to order Elephant bushings?? Seems like most of the shops I find on the regular sites all have the same price....any places offering better than list prices? Also how hard is it to install these bushings? Should I have them professionally installed or try it myself? I have never tried this before but have access to most tools from my work.

Hey Jaime,

Try here http://www.elephantracing.com/

Al

[nsr-jamie]

Jamie,
You can do the work your self it is not that hard and it's rewarding. The Elephant front bushings require JB Weld for the install; can you get that in Japan?
The trubo tie rods are also a nice improvement, there was an issue 9in the past) of the rubber boots being of poor quality and I am not sure how that issue stands today.

I also replaced my rubber steering donut with a aluminum billet coupler, we may have taked about this in another thread. But if it is something you want to do this is the time to do it.

let us know how it goes.
-Rob

Thank you!! What is JB weld? I have been in Japan too long and have not heard of that one before......

Yes, we talked about the rubber steering donut in the past, I ordered one from Tangerine and its here now. I plan to do this all at once...one problem I have is I have no real place to work on the car and not many tools....I will have to ask my friends shop to help me out on this one I think.

Thank you and cheers
Jamie

[Mike Bellis]

JB Weld is a two part steel based epoxy. About $5 at Home Depot over here.

[nsr-jamie]

Well, I stopped by the home center on the way home from work and they don't sell or never heard of WB weld.....do I really need this? Somebody want to set me up with a bottle or tube?? I can send a little something to you from Japan in exchange.....

[tradisrad]

If you are installing Elephant poly bronze bushings in the front, then yes you do need JB Weld. Poly bronze installation instructions.
Send me a PM with your contact/mailing info and I'll send you a tube of the JB Weld.

[pcar916]

JB-Weld is an epoxy that has steel (or something) powder mixed into it. Make your own with a good epoxy and steel dust mixed in... or just epoxy all by itself. That technique is used in industry to make the epoxy mimic the expansion rates of the parts it's used with producing a longer lasting joint by creating less stress at the junction between the bits as the temperature changes.

The Elephant bushings have essentially two parts. The bronze/ polyurethane outer bushing, and a steel inner race that it fits inside of it.

The epoxy glues the inner races to the control arm bosses where the old rubber bushings plugged into at both ends. Then the bronze outers fit over them giving the bushing a smooth surface to pivot on.

[jeff9146]

Hi,
You can get JB WELD on Ebay, herewith a link :

http://cgi.ebay.fr/J-B-WELD-ORIGINAL-COLD-...=item2eafc26bd8

Jeff

[Eric_Shea]

Further note with Poly-Bronze and JB Weld: JB Weld the races on "before" you powdercoat your arms (if you plan to do this step). Have your powdercoater tape off the races.

This get's full coverage of the powder all the way up to the new race. If you try to put them on later, you will have to remove a good chunk of the powder that will not be covered by the race.

JB Weld will withstand 500 degrees so it will be fine for the powder oven. Take it from someone who's installed tons of these.

[rfuerst911sc]

Another data point. I have ER poly bronze bushings front and rear in my GT clone. Stock torsion bars and Koni rear shocks with 140 lb. springs with a 19mm front adjustable sway bar. Has a 3.0 and 245/45x16 + 205/55x16 rubber. So it is setup a little stiffer than stock. I have been driving the car for about 10 months now and I really like this setup and the way it feels. Yes in a light car you're going to feel the bumps but it is not bad in my opinion. I did the install myself and had no real issues. As mentioned earlier the drilling of the grease fittings was probably the most difficult, on the rear I drilled one in the wrong spot (IMG:style_emoticons/default/dry.gif) and had to redrill. The OEM rubber bushings I used my oxy/acetelyn torch to burn them out. A smelly approach but only took a minute or so per bushing to get them out. Grease them up good and have a pro do a 4 wheel alignment and corner balance after install and you will be very happy. Hit them with a grease gun twice a year and they should last forever. I purchased mine from Pelican Parts, been buying 911 parts for years from them and always receive great service.