LED Headlights: Turning on the fogs turns on the high beams, too!, New behavior, fogs worked normally until LED headlights installed. Options

[Chi-town]

@FlacaProductions happy to help, let me know on the headlight stuff, I have a bunch

[FlacaProductions]

PM sent...thanks!

@FlacaProductions happy to help, let me know on the headlight stuff, I have a bunch

[malcolm2]

http://pcbunn.cacr.caltech.edu/jjb/Porsche/FogLights.pdf

and old Porsche Panarama magazine article. 3rd page shows this.....

[malcolm2]

Am I getting this thread right? You guys only did the wire mod on the fog light relay above? Grounding the wire on fuse 1?

NOT the Blk/blu wire mod between headlight switch and the fog light switch
AND NOT the add a new wire from 8/9 fuse to Fog switch term 15?

You DID NOT do those 2 and you still have your Fogs on their own and they work anytime the key is on???

[FlacaProductions]

I just did the grounding wire - nothing else other than the Spoke relay.
NO - my fogs only work when the parking lights are on. (or when the headlights are on, obviously.)

[malcolm2]

I just did the grounding wire - nothing else other than the Spoke relay.
NO - my fogs only work when the parking lights are on. (or when the headlights are on, obviously.)

I figured is was easy to do and I could do more. So I did as mentioned. Pull the wht/blu wire from fuse 1..... make a pig tail with a female spade on one end and a ring connector on the other.... mate the wht/blu and the female on the pig tail.... attach the ring connector to a chassis bolt.

However, my fogs don't work exactly as you stated. They only work with the headlights on. But now they stay on when the headlights are on LOW or HIGH.

Daytime driving light feature does not interest me at the moment. Forgot to check the indicator light in the switch knob..... But I did notice that my small green FOG indicator light in my speedo did not illuminate. Could be the bulb. I have backdated my gauges to silver dot. The 120 mph speedo has a fog indicator that used to work.

Thanks for letting me join in this older thread.

[FlacaProductions]

You might need @Spoke EP26 relay so it all plays nice with the LEDs

[gereed75]

Resurrecting an older thread here to add a bit more info to close the loop for six guys.

According to my 70 914-6 wiring diagrams, the two white/blu wires are connected together at the fuse terminal 1. One goes to the instrument lights and one to the headlight relay. I will be doing the grounding of the relay wht/blu tomorrow and hopefully cure my wonky fog/LED headlight thing

Incidentally I have three different 914-6 wiring diagrams - the Zapf diagram, a German diagram of unknown origin, and a German diagram I always thought was out of the factory manual. Each has it own individual characteristics/ uses.

The two German ones show what we know as fogs to be called “additional high beams” . They show no fog light switch at all. I suspect they are activated via the headlight relay. The factory diagram is easiest to use for tracing colors (very clear color labeling). The other German one has no color labels but does show each switch or connector terminal number. The Zapf calls the second set of lights “fogs” and shows a switch. The Zapf is very difficult to trace wires on in some places, they all blend together. I have found at least one wire color to be wrong.

[raynekat]

If you want that option, take the Blue/white wire and put it to ground instead of wiring it to #30 , forget about the rest of the wiring and relay.

Started to have the same wonky high beam/fog light issue a year after installing my 914 Rubber LED bulbs.
At first, everything worked correctly.
Just recently, no fogs when I pull the fog light switch and instead the high beams come on.

So I just took the white/blue wire from the fog light relay and removed it from the other relay and went directly to ground with it.
Everything works the way I want it now.

This change makes the fogs independent of the headlight/high beam switches.
Can run the fogs on their own or with any combination of low/high beams.
Simple.

One thing I noticed was I had a couple of bad relays.
I think somehow the LED headlights are back feeding power into this fog light relay and frying them.
Had two bad ones I was trying to get working.
Bench tested them and both were inoperative.
Made the wiring changes above, and inserted new relay and was back in business.

[JeffBowlsby]

If you want that option, take the Blue/white wire and put it to ground instead of wiring it to #30 , forget about the rest of the wiring and relay.

Started to have the same wonky high beam/fog light issue a year after installing my 914 Rubber LED bulbs.
At first, everything worked correctly.
Just recently, no fogs when I pull the fog light switch and instead the high beams come on.

So I just took the white/blue wire from the fog light relay and removed it from the other relay and went directly to ground with it.
Everything works the way I want it now.

This change makes the fogs independent of the headlight/high beam switches.
Can run the fogs on their own or with any combination of low/high beams.
Simple.

One thing I noticed was I had a couple of bad relays.
I think somehow the LED headlights are back feeding power into this fog light relay and frying them.
Had two bad ones I was trying to get working.
Bench tested them and both were inoperative.
Made the wiring changes above, and inserted new relay and was back in business.

Was cutting of any wire needed for this mod? The way it is described you just relocated an existing push-on connector.

And what is the 'other' relay mentioned?

@raynekat

[raynekat]

Bruce, when I mentioned other relays, I meant the following.
The 1st couple of relays I had in my spare parts box to replace the fog light relay were all bad. Finally on the 3rd try, that relay worked. When I tested the previously tried relays, they all tested bad.

So not really other relay locations if that's what you're thinking. All the same fog light relay socket.

On my 71 wiring harness, the white with blue stripe wire at terminal 85 on the fog light relay goes over and joins up with another white wire. At that point both wires are terminated jointly in a male spade that goes to terminal 56 on the "combination" relay. It is here, where I cut the white with blue wire separate from the white wire. At this point, I could just take the white with blue stripe directly to ground.

Hope that's clear.
The white with blue stripe wire that goes to the combination relay relies on you turning on the high beams. At that point, terminal 56 on the "combination" relay affectively gets grounded. With LED headlights, for some reason this does not work anymore and strange things happen.

Was cutting of any wire needed for this mod? The way it is described you just relocated an existing push-on connector.

And what is the 'other' relay mentioned?

@raynekat

[Spoke]

Bruce, when I mentioned other relays, I meant the following.
The 1st couple of relays I had in my spare parts box to replace the fog light relay were all bad. Finally on the 3rd try, that relay worked. When I tested the previously tried relays, they all tested bad.

@raynekat

The fogs on my 914 were not coming on. Turns out the relay had oxidized and was not making contact. I could hear the click of the relay pulling in but no contact. I cut the case open with my Dremel, cleaned the contacts and it works fine now.

Do your bad relays click when powered? Likely the contacts need cleaned and filed or sandpapered to bring them back to life.

[raynekat]

Bruce, when I mentioned other relays, I meant the following.
The 1st couple of relays I had in my spare parts box to replace the fog light relay were all bad. Finally on the 3rd try, that relay worked. When I tested the previously tried relays, they all tested bad.

@raynekat

The fogs on my 914 were not coming on. Turns out the relay had oxidized and was not making contact. I could hear the click of the relay pulling in but no contact. I cut the case open with my Dremel, cleaned the contacts and it works fine now.

Do your bad relays click when powered? Likely the contacts need cleaned and filed or sandpapered to bring them back to life.

Likely could have been that. Had plenty of spare relays to plug in, so just found one that worked. I've had much better luck with the old school aluminum case relays than the newer black plastic ones, but they are more difficult to find.

[mepstein]

Bruce, when I mentioned other relays, I meant the following.
The 1st couple of relays I had in my spare parts box to replace the fog light relay were all bad. Finally on the 3rd try, that relay worked. When I tested the previously tried relays, they all tested bad.

@raynekat

The fogs on my 914 were not coming on. Turns out the relay had oxidized and was not making contact. I could hear the click of the relay pulling in but no contact. I cut the case open with my Dremel, cleaned the contacts and it works fine now.

Do your bad relays click when powered? Likely the contacts need cleaned and filed or sandpapered to bring them back to life.

Likely could have been that. Had plenty of spare relays to plug in, so just found one that worked. I've had much better luck with the old school aluminum case relays than the newer black plastic ones, but they are more difficult to find.

I had a couple on my '70.

[abes914]

I’ve been chasing the ghost of electrics for so so long ever since I converted to led lights all around. I thought I fixed them and then it came back. This is fixed it finally! Thank you 914world. So much geniuses here.

If I may suggest to maybe copy/move this in the classic section of the world?

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/aktion035.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/piratenanner.gif)

[JeffBowlsby]

I *finally* got around to doing this mod since I put in LED headlights a couple years ago, so I now have Hi & Lo beams with the foglights on.

Its very simple to do. Nothing was cut or damaged, no additional wire length was added or terminals crimped on. Thanks to all contributors especially Bruce, and Jerry for figuring this out.

On my '74, I found an extra trispade lug in my stash and mounted it under the existing ground lug for the chassis harness located right behind the fusepanel. Swapped the white/blue stripe wire from the rear of fuse #1 to the trispade lug, and it’s done. The original wire is plenty long, and its new location allows no possibility for shorting out to anything. I suspect a similar single lug could be sourced somewhere if you don't have an extra trispade lug from the original fuel injection ground.

[DC_neun_vierzehn]

I *finally* got around to doing this mod since I put in LED headlights a couple years ago, so I now have Hi & Lo beams with the foglights on.

Its very simple to do. Nothing was cut or damaged, no additional wire length was added or terminals crimped on. Thanks to all contributors especially Bruce, and Jerry for figuring this out.

On my '74, I found an extra trispade lug in my stash and mounted it under the existing ground lug for the chassis harness located right behind the fusepanel. Swapped the white/blue stripe wire from the rear of fuse #1 to the trispade lug, and its done. The original wire is plenty long, and its new location provides not possibility for shorting out to anything. I suspect a similar single lug could be sourced somewhere if you don't have an extra trispade lug from the original fuel injection ground.

Oh nice. I have an extra tri-spade. I’m going to try this on my ‘73.

[87m491]

Having done this mod pretty much this way (though I also jumpered the fog trigger wire from the headlight switch (switched) to headlight switch ignition hot so fogs anytime 12v is on. You don't really even need a tri spade connector. I had a bunch of spare bits from and MSD install which contained a double sided male spade connector, but Take an unused male spade connecter and cut off the spade. Insert it 1/2 way into the female of the wht/blu wire and then slide the other 1/2 of the spade under the washer of the common ground. Done.

I *finally* got around to doing this mod since I put in LED headlights a couple years ago, so I now have Hi & Lo beams with the foglights on.

Its very simple to do. Nothing was cut or damaged, no additional wire length was added or terminals crimped on. Thanks to all contributors especially Bruce, and Jerry for figuring this out.

On my '74, I found an extra trispade lug in my stash and mounted it under the existing ground lug for the chassis harness located right behind the fusepanel. Swapped the white/blue stripe wire from the rear of fuse #1 to the trispade lug, and its done. The original wire is plenty long, and its new location provides not possibility for shorting out to anything. I suspect a similar single lug could be sourced somewhere if you don't have an extra trispade lug from the original fuel injection ground.

Oh nice. I have an extra tri-spade. I’m going to try this on my ‘73.

[horizontally-opposed]

Curious if anyone else spotted these...

https://www.design911shop.com/p/bulb-set-h4...RhoCw0QQAvD_BwE

Interesting to see PAG behind these, complete with approval papers that suggest downsides (such as blinding other drivers) have been addressed satisfactorily:

https://www.porsche.com/international/acces...oval-documents/

Pelican Parts thread with posts on their legality in Germany/Austria/etc here:

https://forums.pelicanparts.com/porsche-911...nversion-2.html

I bought LED bulbs a long time ago, but had concerns about using them in my H4 housings. Have considered trying the Holley 7-inch LEDs, which look more period correct than most offerings, but this may change my direction.

[GeorgeKopf]

I've been struggling with this issue;

My harness is a 1973 and when I pull out the fog light switch my LED headlights switch from low-beam to high-beam and the high-beam indicator comes on.

I found this on 914rubber.com

https://914rubber-tk.com/doku.php?id=troubl...oglight_problem

I'm going to do conversion #2 since it seems like the least invasive and easiest to undo.

Thanks.

George