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> Ben's 914 TURBO Official World Premier, 'cuz it didn't blowd up.
airsix
post Sep 13 2004, 01:04 AM
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Ok, so it isn't as cool as Chapman's 914-6 Turbo 3.0, but it's a turbo 914 all the same. Ladys and Gentlemen, at about 10:00 PST I got boost and there was much rejoicing. I took the car out, filled it with premium, tuned it with the laptop a little to make sure it got plenty of fuel under boost, and the mission was a sucess. Boost starts to come on at ~2,700rpm and is going full-steam by 3,500rpm.

I stand (ok, sit) here before you my brothers to declare that yes indeed, you can turbo a 914. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/clap56.gif)

Details:

Engine: '73 1.7, stock internals
EFI ECU: Perfect Power MIC3 (Cost ~$500 to get on the car and running 3 years ago)
Misc EFI stuff: Subaru 1.8T injectors, Holly throttle body off a 3.0 Chrysler, BMW 5xx fuel pump, foam motorcycle aircleaner (temporary)
Turbo: IHI off 1.8L Subaru (including wastegate)
Misc Turbo stuff: Bosch blow-off valve (for a Saab I think). Cheap. Plastic. Works great.
Total cost to add turbo: $175 (EFI was already on the car. Use Megasquirt+turbo and you can do this for <$400 easy)

I tried to modify my fuel pressure regulator with a boost-reference port like the in the dune-buggy.com article but I broke off a wire guage drill bit about 1.5" deep into the bolt. Dang. Only had about a quarter-inch to go too. So I just bolted it back on the car and set the fuel pressure at the 30psi I have the ECU turned for. I tried to crank up the injector pulse width under boost to compensate, but they hit 100% duty cycle at 5,000rpm because at that point they only have 20psi effective pressure (because there's 10lb of boost by that point). So I'm keeping it under 5k rpm until I get a rising-rate pressure regulator. The wideband O2 says mixtures are just fine below that point. I estimate I'm getting 110hp (That's not a WAG. I really did the math) which doesn't sound like much but is sure better than the 80hp I had before. I would still like to add an intercooler which could put it in the neighborhood of 130hp without getting too boost-happy. Even as it is now I would say it's 100% more fun to drive. I'm really happy about it. I'll get the pressure regulator issue squared away so I can run it up to 6k and I think it'll keep me happy for quite a while.

Rick said "This thread is worthless without pictures" so here's the best I could do. If you missed the earlier thread I'll throw in one of the earlier pics too. I tried to make a video but all you hear is wind noice and the blow-off valve between shifts.
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airsix
post Sep 13 2004, 02:27 PM
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QUOTE(Sammy @ Sep 13 2004, 12:05 PM)
I have a new hero! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/pray.gif)

Anyone who has pulled it off knows it aint as easy as you make it sound. Tonight when I get home I'm going to offer a toast to the north with a frosty beverage. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wavey.gif)

Thanks Sammy. Anybody can follow. You were the one who blazed the trail. And yeah, it's hasn't been easy, and it's not over yet - I call this a major milestone, but not the end of the project. Still got some issues to shake out, but it'll get there (in one piece I hope). You are still THE MAN. Cheers.

-Ben M.
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Eddie914
post Sep 13 2004, 02:46 PM
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In what part of Eastern Washington State do you live?

My mother has lived in Spokane for nearly 50yrs. I get over there regulary.

Regards,

Eddie
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TimT
post Sep 13 2004, 03:11 PM
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Kewl!!

nice job Ben....You may want to run it without the muffler. We run 930's all the time on the track and street without mufflers and havent had any problems with noise..

No muffler is lighter, and will allow faster spool up of the turbo

Try it you may like it !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)
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andys
post Sep 13 2004, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE(TimT @ Sep 13 2004, 01:11 PM)
Kewl!!

nice job Ben....You may want to run it without the muffler. We run 930's all the time on the track and street without mufflers and havent had any problems with noise..

No muffler is lighter, and will allow faster spool up of the turbo

Try it you may like it !! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/beer.gif)

TimT,

That reminded me of something we did in the early days of street turbo's without waste gate controls. We controlled the boost with the exhaust by restricting it with different sized mufflers (or as you suggested, no muffler at all). Crude, but effective.

Ben, if you used thin wall muffler tubing for your fab, keep a close eye on it. It will likely crack. It's perhaps one reason your Dad suggested stainless. Again, in the early days, we used heavy wall (.125") carbon steel weld together steam pipe fittings. Actually worked out quite nice, as there are 45's, 90's, and reducers available with beveled edges for welding.

Andy
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airsix
post Sep 13 2004, 04:15 PM
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I have bees in my epiglotis
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QUOTE(Eddie914 @ Sep 13 2004, 12:46 PM)
In what part of Eastern Washington State do you live?


I'm in Kennewick, WA. (2 hours South of Spokane). Anybody's welcome to come visit. The problem is this place isn't really "on the way" to anywhere. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif) The avatar pic of the Tetons that says "home" is misleading - that's where I grew up.

-Ben M.
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Andyrew
post Sep 13 2004, 04:25 PM
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Spooling.... Please wait
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I want to see that intake setup!!!

Asside from that..

GOOD JOB!!!

My thoughts for a turbo was a built bottom end (bus stuff... on a 2.0) k26 sized turbo (heck I have one on my desk.. lol) water injection and short exhaust pipes... Then a Mass air flow (for da sound of course...) And maybe 7-10 psi...


BUT That will be later.. Maybe on this sbc (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif)

Andrew
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airsix
post Sep 13 2004, 05:30 PM
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I have bees in my epiglotis
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QUOTE(Andyrew @ Sep 13 2004, 02:25 PM)
I want to see that intake setup!!!

There is no way I'm letting any of you see the intake setup! It's too ugly. It's made from stuff bought at Home Depot. It would make the average PCA member faint on sight. It's just a proof-of-concept prototype. I will make a REAL intake this winter and then I'll show you pictures.

-Ben M.

ps - I haven't given up on the idea of making a short video if someone's got a place for me to upload to.
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Brando
post Sep 13 2004, 05:36 PM
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BUY MY SPARE KIDNEY!!!
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Next up, twin turbo?

Run a turbo off of each side... Cyls 1,3 & 2,4 (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Very impressive work done there. Bravo!
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Gint
post Sep 13 2004, 06:15 PM
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Nice goin Ben!

Ever going to dyno it?
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rick 918-S
post Sep 13 2004, 09:29 PM
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That's what I'm talking about! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smilie_pokal.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/monkeydance.gif)
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echocanyons
post Sep 13 2004, 10:15 PM
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Damn fine work!

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/beerchug.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Sep 13 2004, 10:19 PM
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The one big key is that you kept it a 1.7

Every Type IV Turbo that I have been able to keep together used the 90mm bore.

Good job, I'd really like to see what your head temps and EGT run for comparisons with two that I built last year.
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Britain Smith
post Sep 13 2004, 11:49 PM
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QUOTE(Jake Raby @ Sep 13 2004, 09:19 PM)
The one big key is that you kept it a 1.7

Every Type IV Turbo that I have been able to keep together used the 90mm bore.

Good job, I'd really like to see what your head temps and EGT run for comparisons with two that I built last year.

What about a 98mm bore with nikki's? You think that will work?
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nein14
post Sep 14 2004, 07:30 AM
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(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) As the proud new owner of Evil Ed's 2.0 914 Turbo , he built it with 94mm P & C's, 71mm crank and 1.7/1.8 heads.

Boost its set at 9lbs. for the street and come on at about 3000 rpm's. He also installed Carroll Water Injection system for running 14lbs. of boost on 100 octane race fuel
when he was doing track events at Watkins Glen.

The head temp rarely gets above 180- degrees. The car is an absolute blast to drive even in 5th gear it has grunt!
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Evill Ed
post Sep 14 2004, 11:43 AM
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QUOTE(nein14 @ Sep 14 2004, 05:30 AM)
(IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) As the proud new owner of Evil Ed's 2.0 914 Turbo , he built it with 94mm P & C's, 71mm crank and 1.7/1.8 heads.

Boost its set at 9lbs. for the street and come on at about 3000 rpm's. He also installed Carroll Water Injection system for running 14lbs. of boost on 100 octane race fuel
when he was doing track events at Watkins Glen.

The head temp rarely gets above 180- degrees. The car is an absolute blast to drive even in 5th gear it has grunt!

Hey John, I think it was the oil temp that rarely goes over 180f (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

The heads never go over 325 or 350f, I forget.

BTW- I think John drives it alot harder than I did, on the street anway. I don't recall routine 100 mph blast to my barber shop (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif)



Ed
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nein14
post Sep 14 2004, 12:25 PM
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HI Ed
Your right, my mistake I was referring to oil temp. The head temp doesn't go above 325 to 350 degrees.

BTW, the last run up to get a haircut was 110mph with a BMW 325 trying to catch me. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)
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Jake Raby
post Sep 14 2004, 02:29 PM
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Nickies solve the sealing issues- period. Any size will work unless you get stupidly thin.
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mightyohm
post Sep 14 2004, 02:32 PM
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I was just wondering, is it really ok to run a water cooled turbo without water cooling?
Are they set up for adequate cooling with oil alone?
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lapuwali
post Sep 14 2004, 02:49 PM
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QUOTE
Are they set up for adequate cooling with oil alone?


Wondered about that myself. As I understand it, the primary reason water-cooled bearings came into being was that even the oil-only turbos had cooling problems, esp. on shutdown. The oil would fry once the pressure went away after shutting off, coking to the bearing. I supposed what one could do is use a small heat exchanger (like an oil cooler) with lines to and from the bearing. If you mounted the cooler more or less level with the turbo, there would be some thermo-siphoning effect to keep the water moving even w/o a pump, and this would work even with the engine off. Would work best if you ran the hoses parallel to each other, one above the other, so one was the "cold" hose, and the other was the "hot" hose. Hot water would rise in the bearing housing to the hot hose and sink in the cooler as it lost heat, pushing the cooled water at the bottom of the cooler along the cold hose into and up into the bearing housing. Pretty cheap to do. The air hose from the fan housing currently blowing air through the bearing housing could instead blow it against the cooler.

I have no idea if this would be adequate, but it sounds like it would be better than just relying on the oil alone.
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Evill Ed
post Sep 14 2004, 03:22 PM
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QUOTE(jkeyzer @ Sep 14 2004, 12:32 PM)
I was just wondering, is it really ok to run a water cooled turbo without water cooling?
Are they set up for adequate cooling with oil alone?

Yes, it is fine. The cooling jacket is to help prevent oil coking (sp?).

Ed
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