Need to increase negative camber, track set up |
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Need to increase negative camber, track set up |
sixaddict |
Dec 24 2010, 04:04 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 22-January 09 From: Panama City Beach, FL Member No.: 9,961 Region Association: South East States |
Need to increase negative camber. What are best options up front and cost of what you did. Rear also. I am using car for both track and AX (likely to go A-6s) so some compromise involved. Winter project. For track going to be running RA1s (previously 888s). (IMG:style_emoticons/default/evilgrin.gif)
Words of wisdom please. |
J P Stein |
Dec 24 2010, 10:32 PM
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#2
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
A6s like negative camber....up to -3 if you're not worried abut tire wear.
On a 914 -1 is about all you can get up front using the stock set up.....another .25 deg or so lowered to the max. Offset strut mounts will give you close to another -1. Offset ball joints will give about another -.25/-.5 Depending on the car, the rear is good for almost -2 (again lowered) by pulling out shims. |
sixnotfour |
Dec 25 2010, 11:39 AM
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#3
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,438 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
4 a arms slice and add internal doubler plates plug welds and seem weld and if you did it right you added 3/4-1 inch which gives additional neg camber. vintage racer cheater trick.
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J P Stein |
Dec 25 2010, 11:51 AM
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#4
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
4 a arms slice and add internal doubler plates plug welds and seem weld aand if youdid it right you added 3/4-1 inch wich gives additional neg camber. vintage raer cheeter trick With added negative camber can come some problems.......excessive side loading on Bilsteins. Had to do some rework to the caps before sending them out for repair and that seemed to fix the problem.....tho I then went to bias slicks (from A6s) after this and took the negative camber out. "Funny" shit happens when your looking for more grip and this sure as hell wasn't the only "fun". Attached thumbnail(s) |
sww914 |
Dec 25 2010, 12:10 PM
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#5
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,439 Joined: 4-June 06 Member No.: 6,146 Region Association: None |
For the front I like struts with raised and re-cambered spindles. It solves bump steer problems at the same time.
Rebel Racing can do this, I've installed several sets. http://www.rebelracingproducts.com/Suspension/Steering.html For the rear you can lower it as much as possible and remove all the shims and see what you get. I've thought about building a fixture to hold the rear trailing arms so that I could twist them to increase neg camber, but I haven't done anything yet. |
PlaysWithCars |
Dec 30 2010, 01:34 AM
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#6
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 527 Joined: 9-November 03 From: Southeast of Seattle Member No.: 1,323 Region Association: Pacific Northwest |
If raising the outer swing arm mounting point as much as possible my removing all shims doesn't get you enough rear camber, is it possible to lower the inner swing arm mounting hole in the suspension console?
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J P Stein |
Dec 30 2010, 05:49 AM
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#7
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
If raising the outer swing arm mounting point as much as possible my removing all shims doesn't get you enough rear camber, is it possible to lower the inner swing arm mounting hole in the suspension console? It's possible just bloody difficult. The pic doesn't do a good job of showing the raised portion around the SW flange, but it is there. Attached thumbnail(s) |
sixaddict |
Dec 30 2010, 02:52 PM
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#8
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 22-January 09 From: Panama City Beach, FL Member No.: 9,961 Region Association: South East States |
Sixnot four:
That is solution proposed to me and it makes me a little nervous. Does this solution "look" normal if done correctly? No issue with strength? What about mounting tabs for sway bar. THX Terry If raising the outer swing arm mounting point as much as possible my removing all shims doesn't get you enough rear camber, is it possible to lower the inner swing arm mounting hole in the suspension console? It's possible just bloody difficult. The pic doesn't do a good job of showing the raised portion around the SW flange, but it is there. |
J P Stein |
Dec 30 2010, 08:59 PM
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#9
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Irrelevant old fart Group: Members Posts: 8,797 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Vancouver, WA Member No.: 45 Region Association: None |
It would have been fairly easy for me to do "while I was there" reinforcing the inner section of the ear.....just more cutting, welding & grinding....but I didn't have the need using bias ply tires.
3/16" plate for the inner.....prolly heat & beat for the outter. Attached thumbnail(s) |
sww914 |
Dec 30 2010, 11:42 PM
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#10
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Advanced Member Group: Members Posts: 2,439 Joined: 4-June 06 Member No.: 6,146 Region Association: None |
Looking at the pics I remember that Chris Foley, Tangerine Racing sells a kit for the rear. It isn't cheap or easy, as I recall, but it looks like a solution and it looks like it'll never break.
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ChrisFoley |
Dec 31 2010, 09:20 AM
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#11
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I am Tangerine Racing Group: Members Posts: 7,937 Joined: 29-January 03 From: Bolton, CT Member No.: 209 Region Association: None |
Tangerine Racing sells a kit for the rear. That kit raises the pickup points and allows some freedom to change the inner to outer mounting relationship. Someone recently asked me about using it at stock height. I suppose that's possible, but the sheet metal filler pieces would need to be redesigned. Another option uses one of my procedures, that I hadn't previously considered. My reinforced trailing arms can be setup at any built in camber. On the website I list stock and two levels of reduced camber, but the same process could be used to increase camber as well. |
sixnotfour |
Dec 31 2010, 11:03 AM
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#12
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914 Wizard Group: Members Posts: 10,438 Joined: 12-September 04 From: Life Elevated..planet UT. Member No.: 2,744 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
QUOTE What about mounting tabs for sway bar. THX Terry Its not for everyone for sure , I have only done it at the end of the a arm so it doesnt change the sway bar mount or the round diagonal. drill plug weld holes and insert doubler plates for both ends. you end up with double wall and looks stock. I have seen one crashed and it messed up the ball joint hole and bent it. reboring the spindle is the best way, but it depends on your wheels as they may end up rubbing the strut body. |
jjackson |
Dec 31 2010, 12:48 PM
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#13
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Member Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 5-October 10 From: maumelle, arkansas Member No.: 12,246 Region Association: None |
The two tires that you list require additional camber to run as fast as bias ply tires.We tested several different "patch" ways to increase camber so we could run the superior radial tires.IE decambered ball joints,monoballs up front etc.We could not get as much mechanical grip these ways.In my opinion, you have to change mounting points to run these radials at there optimum settings.Camber boxes up front with spindle changes and raised pick up points in the rear.All of the products that Racer Chris has develloped-are first class efforts at addressing these problems.We run bias ply slicks due to our designs and limtations.J
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dion9146 |
Jan 2 2011, 07:32 PM
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#14
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Member Group: Members Posts: 469 Joined: 16-May 04 From: Buckner, KY Member No.: 2,071 Region Association: MidAtlantic Region |
I just happen to have a set of spindles with way too much built in camber on my street car. I've dialed out as much camber as possible, and still have 2.5 on each side. I just removed them in preparation for replacing the suspension bushings.
Let me know if you are interested in a trade. I don't know what year they are, but I'm currently running Koni reds and the brake caliper spacing is 3". Dion |
sixaddict |
Jan 3 2011, 07:37 PM
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#15
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 808 Joined: 22-January 09 From: Panama City Beach, FL Member No.: 9,961 Region Association: South East States |
Would love to but I need 3 1/2" spacing for brakes......
Never fails ! Thanks Terry I just happen to have a set of spindles with way too much built in camber on my street car. I've dialed out as much camber as possible, and still have 2.5 on each side. I just removed them in preparation for replacing the suspension bushings. Let me know if you are interested in a trade. I don't know what year they are, but I'm currently running Koni reds and the brake caliper spacing is 3". Dion |
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