21mm Torsion Bars 4 914/4? |
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21mm Torsion Bars 4 914/4? |
detoxcowboy |
Jan 24 2011, 09:52 PM
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#1
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,294 Joined: 30-January 08 Member No.: 8,642 Region Association: Africa |
Is anyone running 21mm torsion bars on a stock 914/4? How stiff is it? Just curious as I know sometimes even the little adjustment/upgrade in the suspension can be more than ideal.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/confused24.gif)
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r_towle |
Jan 24 2011, 10:31 PM
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#2
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
I did 23mm bars...to stiff.
the best setup is stock torsion bars with a 21mm front anti sway bar and 140-180 lb rear adjustable springs. Run koni adjustable shocks and with all of that underneath you , you can tune your suspension to a premium setup for autox, track or street....depends on your application. rich |
detoxcowboy |
Jan 24 2011, 10:44 PM
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#3
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Senior Member Group: Members Posts: 1,294 Joined: 30-January 08 Member No.: 8,642 Region Association: Africa |
I did 23mm bars...to stiff. the best setup is stock torsion bars with a 21mm front anti sway bar and 140-180 lb rear adjustable springs. Run koni adjustable shocks and with all of that underneath you , you can tune your suspension to a premium setup for autox, track or street....depends on your application. rich Thanks Rich! Your input is always one I read anywhere any topic. Right now I am on Billstiens all around with factory fr. and rear sway bars and factory torson bars, new rubber bushings and 100 lb. springs.. It is a nice ride but I am always open to learning, and the front just seems a bit softer than the rear but it is not enough to warrant that much changing or concern really, just knowledge at this point. When I screwed up my first bushing install (poly) they were all pretty much siezed and rode like off road ride everywhere (kidney belt), but it turned/tracked like it was on rails very sweet!.... |
r_towle |
Jan 24 2011, 10:48 PM
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#4
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
upgrade the front bar and dont be cheap about it.
Get a fully adjustable 21-23mm bar. Save the stock bar for when you sell the car...someone will want it for cheap and they are getting hard to find. The stock front bar is what...3mm... (I think its may be 15mm) and it really does not do enough. Starrett makes a nice piece now. That will make you smile....alot. Once you are set with that...go for the 140lb progressive rear springs. With that setup, you will be in a nice gokart. Rich |
DanT |
Jan 24 2011, 10:49 PM
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#5
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
depending on your total suspension front and rear, I have found that 21mm front torsion bars are best balanced with 180-200# springs.
Especially if you are running a large front sway bar. 21mm bars 22mm sway bar front 180-200# rears all riding on Bil sports or Koni adjustables. I have built 5 track/street/AX 914s over the years and the total package is what makes the difference stock front bars work nicely with a 19mm front bar matched with 100 or 140s in the rear. For a street car I would not go to 21mm front bars. My 2cents (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) my previous 914 ran 21mm bars 19mm front sway 180# rear springs running on Koni adjustables front and custom valved Bils in the rear. Attached image(s) |
r_towle |
Jan 24 2011, 10:53 PM
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#6
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
I would agree with Dan, but with a single acception.
I removed the heavy front bars on my car (autox and street) For autox, they are too stiff and the stock torsion bars provide better and faster turn in...and they are free...you own them. |
DanT |
Jan 24 2011, 11:01 PM
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#7
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
again it depends on what it is all balanced with .........yes the orange car had to be driven a certain way at AX, but was manageable.
The car was wonderful on the track.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) Also helped the car was very low and ran custom 7" wheels with very sticky V710s and yes, I had passed both of the cars in the second pic... that pic is exit turn 11 at laguna (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif) Attached image(s) |
r_towle |
Jan 24 2011, 11:47 PM
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#8
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
It depends upon the purpose of the car.
For track...big bars. For autox and street...more tuning with smaller torsion bars Rich |
DanT |
Jan 25 2011, 12:06 AM
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#9
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
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Eric_Shea |
Jan 25 2011, 01:05 AM
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#10
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PMB Performance Group: Admin Posts: 19,278 Joined: 3-September 03 From: Salt Lake City, UT Member No.: 1,110 Region Association: Rocky Mountains |
What a love fest (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wub.gif)
I'd never put 21's on a street car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) |
dlkawashima |
Jan 25 2011, 02:23 AM
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#11
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,749 Joined: 1-October 10 From: San Jose Member No.: 12,234 Region Association: Northern California |
What would you do for a pure street car that needs suspension work on all 4 corners? I just bought Midtowner's '73 2L. It has 140lb. springs, old Konis that need to be replaced/rebuilt, and stock front/rear sway bars. The car has noticeable bump steer and I find the ride to be harsh. Looking for a more comfortable ride without losing too much of its responsive handling. |
nsr-jamie |
Jan 25 2011, 06:44 AM
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#12
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914 guy in Japan Group: Members Posts: 1,182 Joined: 7-November 07 From: Nagoya, Japan Member No.: 8,305 Region Association: None |
What would you do for a pure street car that needs suspension work on all 4 corners? I just bought Midtowner's '73 2L. It has 140lb. springs, old Konis that need to be replaced/rebuilt, and stock front/rear sway bars. The car has noticeable bump steer and I find the ride to be harsh. Looking for a more comfortable ride without losing too much of its responsive handling. How about a 911 front end? The 911 front T bars are a bit heavier I think...I believe they are around the 19mm mark which makes them very nice for a street driven 914...that is what I did...along with a Tarret front bar, 150 pound springs (adjustable height), Koni shocks, and am still working out what bushings to go with next....probably Elephant rubber ones |
DanT |
Jan 25 2011, 08:41 AM
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#13
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
what an excellent purchase for you....that car is a time capsule...
get new Bilstein shocks or get the Konis rebuilt. Possibly new suspension bushings...when these get old brittle and dry I feel they add as much harshness to the ride as shocks and springs do. Possibly got to 100# rear springs. Raise the car just a bit will also help the ride and the bump steer. Ride harshness is all in the the butt of the driver. What is harsh to you may be soft to someone else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) What would you do for a pure street car that needs suspension work on all 4 corners? I just bought Midtowner's '73 2L. It has 140lb. springs, old Konis that need to be replaced/rebuilt, and stock front/rear sway bars. The car has noticeable bump steer and I find the ride to be harsh. Looking for a more comfortable ride without losing too much of its responsive handling. |
r_towle |
Jan 25 2011, 08:45 AM
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#14
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Custom Member Group: Members Posts: 24,591 Joined: 9-January 03 From: Taxachusetts Member No.: 124 Region Association: North East States |
what an excellent purchase for you....that car is a time capsule... get new Bilstein shocks or get the Konis rebuilt. Possibly new suspension bushings...when these get old brittle and dry I feel they add as much harshness to the ride as shocks and springs do. Possibly got to 100# rear springs. Raise the car just a bit will also help the ride and the bump steer. Ride harshness is all in the the butt of the driver. What is harsh to you may be soft to someone else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) What would you do for a pure street car that needs suspension work on all 4 corners? I just bought Midtowner's '73 2L. It has 140lb. springs, old Konis that need to be replaced/rebuilt, and stock front/rear sway bars. The car has noticeable bump steer and I find the ride to be harsh. Looking for a more comfortable ride without losing too much of its responsive handling. Raise up the car and get 195/60/15 tires Low profile tires contribute greatly to a harsh ride. Aside from that, dont listen to anything Eric Shea has to say.. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/poke.gif) RIch |
Van914 |
Jan 25 2011, 09:04 AM
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#15
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Van914 Group: Members Posts: 698 Joined: 5-January 03 From: Cincinnati, Ohio Member No.: 90 Region Association: Upper MidWest |
Mine is set up:
21mm bars 19mm front sway 180# rear springs running on Koni adjustables front and rear Elephant bushings front and rear Rides great on the street and handles great at DE's. Jason at Paragon's recomendation Van914 |
DanT |
Jan 25 2011, 09:23 AM
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#16
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
If Erik's old car still has the same tire/wheel combination, it is running Factory Fuchs with something like 185 Michelins I believe...so he doesn' have low profile tires on there.
Car was pretty low for a pure street car the last time I saw it. Biggest issues are most likely old tired suspension components and ride height. |
DanT |
Jan 25 2011, 09:25 AM
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#17
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Going back to the Dark Side! Group: Members Posts: 4,300 Joined: 4-October 04 From: Auburn, CA Member No.: 2,880 Region Association: None |
We need to see some new pics of your new car. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)
What would you do for a pure street car that needs suspension work on all 4 corners? I just bought Midtowner's '73 2L. It has 140lb. springs, old Konis that need to be replaced/rebuilt, and stock front/rear sway bars. The car has noticeable bump steer and I find the ride to be harsh. Looking for a more comfortable ride without losing too much of its responsive handling. |
sean_v8_914 |
Jan 25 2011, 09:31 AM
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#18
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Chingon 601 Group: Members Posts: 4,011 Joined: 1-February 05 From: San Diego Member No.: 3,541 |
van914 set up is good but stiff for street
comfy w good back country demeanor: stock front torsion 19mm ADJUSTABLE front sway bar 140 progresive rear spring no rear sway bar 195/60 15 tires koni still smooth but faster, street/AX: 19mm front torsion 19mm ADJUSTABLE front sway bar 165 progresive rear spring no rear sway bar 205/50 15 tires Bilstein 21mm with 180 require good dentistry for street use big front torsion will need less sway bar stock front torsion will need more sway bar changes should be balanced proportionatly front to rear to maintain good chassis dynamics there are acceptable compromises for sake of budget |
pcar916 |
Jan 25 2011, 10:08 AM
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#19
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Is that a Lola? Group: Members Posts: 1,523 Joined: 2-June 05 From: Little Rock, AR Member No.: 4,188 Region Association: None |
I like mine to handle like a cart. It's a daily driver with a 993 motor so it's heavier than some other 914's. So I put as many things in the front trunk and as low as possible (i.e. Fuel cell, battery, oil cooler, fire system). Briefly...
Front: 23mm torsions 22mm anti-sway bar Bilstein sport inserts 225/50 x 16 tires Rear: 200 # adjustable height coil springs Koni gas-adjustable shocks no anti-sway bar, although I might re-install the one that came on the car now that I have a clutch-type LSD. 245/45 x 16 tires I dial in handling with a combination of tire pressures, rear shock settings and front sway bar adjustments, in that order. My teeth are ok so far. |
dlkawashima |
Jan 25 2011, 12:02 PM
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#20
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914 Guru Group: Members Posts: 9,749 Joined: 1-October 10 From: San Jose Member No.: 12,234 Region Association: Northern California |
what an excellent purchase for you....that car is a time capsule... get new Bilstein shocks or get the Konis rebuilt. Possibly new suspension bushings...when these get old brittle and dry I feel they add as much harshness to the ride as shocks and springs do. Possibly got to 100# rear springs. Raise the car just a bit will also help the ride and the bump steer. Ride harshness is all in the the butt of the driver. What is harsh to you may be soft to someone else (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) QUOTE Dan, you're right, the car is remarkably well preserved for being 38 years old and having 90,000 miles on it. It still boggles my mind that the paint is original. I feel very fortunate to have purchased it from Erik. I am leaning (nudge, nudge) toward your idea of 100lb. springs, standard Bilsteins, and rubber bushings from Elephant. I think that will get the car close to a stock ride and still have adequate performance in the twistys. Regarding pics, I actually haven't taken any of the car yet (other than a quick snap of it in the garage next to my '66 Mustang) but the car is exactly the same as the last time you saw it. Here is one of my favorites pictures, the famous one with your #5 in Erik's driveway: |
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