High HP 914? Options

[d k]

Hello people.

I'm a noob here, but been around cars for awhile.

Recently acquired a 75 914 that is very clean and going to do the Subaru conversion. Car will be used mostly for track events and some odd miles on the street.

The question that I had, is how does this car respond to high horsepower? In stock form, the EJ257 will put out 300 at the crank and I'm wondering if it makes sense to tweak it a little more....

I've seen a few conversions done here and read through a ton of threads. Some very helpful info here, but I haven't read anybody's feedback on what the chassis will do if throw 500hp at it? Besides all the supporting mods necessary to handle the power, what will the driving dynamics be??
Maybe it's not worth to do anything except just the engine swap, but since it's going to get a full cage, big brakes and aero, maybe go big (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif)

David

[Jaymann]

Sounds really expensive ,buy one already done for less than half.Save yourself alot of time and money.Ballpark, for what you are describing ,you are looking at over 30,000.Jake sold a real sweet car here with 140 h.p. for under 9,000 that was good to go,and I am sure it was pretty fast too.So, do you wanna drive, or do you want a hobby??? Are you a race car driver???Jason

[PeeGreen 914]

Only people I recall reading about that have anywhere near that kind of HP have full cages and a 914 shell. I am sure others will chime in. I certainly do not think the 914 needs that kind of HP as it is a very nimble car. You add a ton of HP to a nimble car and you make it not so nimble.

Good luck on the build and I look forward to seeing your progress.

[RJMII]

Nope, doesn't make sense to tweak it a little more. I had around 300hp in mine (before theh engine broke) and it would up and mooove. Then again, I'm replacing that V6 with a twin turbo unit to go for the more hp. I am sure it doesn't make sense, but I'm doing it anyways since I have the engine.

[d k]

Thanks for the replies.

Unfortunately, i stay in the states for only a part of the year, so this build will be at the fab shop for a while...
I def plan on doing a full cage and some sort of wide body. Just not sure exactly what.
Eng/trans will ne about 10k all in, rest will be chassis work.
Hopefully it will be done when i get back.

What is everyone running for suspension?


Yes, i have raced cars in a previous life.

[d914]

the 300 hp area is a very fast car.. Suspension and chassis improvements, check with Tangerine Racing/ Racer Chris is a member here.

Tangerine Racing, Rebel Racing, Tarret etc all have parts and such that you would need.. The 914 is meant for a road course.

A momentum car can be alot of fun. A high hp/high speed car adds complexity to the race course. Again 500 hp for DE's most would say is overkill.. Then again some here have those cars.. The learning curve on that kind of car is much greater. Driving and tuning..

All being done by a shop,,,,,,very expensive

That being said I putting in about 300hp in mine also.. ej20k..

[Andyrew]

300 HP is a VERY fast car. Start pushing 400hp and you need to get some serious tire under the car to keep it on the ground. at THAT point, you need a strong trani/cv's. Which you then need to reinforce the chassis quite extensively, a cage will do if its tied into the correct points.

Suspension for a 500hp car? At that point most of the race cars have some custom suspension. Typically you just need to determine what kind of driving you'll do and tune the suspension for that.

IMHO with a turbo engine this is the way I would go.. If you have the money, build the engine for 500hp, Lower the boost down so your at 300hp. Drive it for 6 months. Add 50hp. another 6 months, add 50more.. ect.
You'll respect the car more and you will learn what changes are needed as you go along.

[carr914]

The Factory Drivers were afraid of the GTs when they were approaching 300 HP.

I'm going to have more than 300, I have to see how big my Brass ones really are.

T.C.

[turboman808]

I got to say I am very seriously considering the ecotec motor with the pdk transmission. The stock ecotec in my solstice I got it tuned and it makes a very reliable 400hp or close to it. Figure 20k to do it.

[ewdysar]

There have been a number of 500+ hp V8 conversions. Like Andyrew said, when you're in that range, you'll need overall stiffening, and a cage tied to the suspension, along with a few other reinforced pieces (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif) will usually suffice. Of course, you'll need bigger brakes, stronger trans, stronger axles, wider tires, etc. etc. But the design of the suspension is good for plenty of power and can be tuned fairly well for whatever type of racing that you're planning (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) . You don't have to go as far as a tube frame race car with 914 panels tacked on the outside, unless you want to...

[iamchappy]

I have reinforced everything, inner long kit, outer long kit, swing arms, all the areas on and around the suspension console without the rod bracing. I also have a bolt in roll bar that's not used on the street. 944 turbo brakes on all corners. I think i have around 400 hp. Unless your looking for an all out race car, 400hp is getting close to the safe limit on street driving if you plan on standing on the throttle once in awhile. The world passes by very quickly in a 400 + hp 914. I can tell you it has had my heart racing more than a few times, in fact almost every time i go out for a drive....

[pcar916]

I've been running a 993 engine in my 914 since 1999 and wouldn't ever go back to less horsepower. It is spec'd at 270hp by Porsche and I have a clutch/flywheel assembly that weighs in at almost 20lbs. The stock 993 flywheel and clutch assembly weighs right at 55lbs. That makes a big difference in how the car ramps up on power, but is very driveable since the DME helps. With carbs that would be a different story (on the street) when the engine was cold and at very low revs.

The car has to be stiffened, the suspension must be beefed up, the brakes have to be bigger, and on the track and street you should really consider a limited slip differential (although I didn't have one until many years after the conversion). I could easily use another 100hp... period, but not at an AX.

Good luck!

[ChrisFoley]

... I could easily use another 100hp... period, but not at an AX...

I'm trying to help set up a 500 hp 914 for A/X right now.
With the street setup it currently has, the car is practically undriveable with any more than half throttle.

[messix]

2,200lb car with 500hp will be a point and shoot car. there will be so much acceleration that if you can get the traction you would spend more time trying to get it slowed down and settled for a corner then you would be on the gas!

tc9148 has a 400+hp v8 car and i drove it.... brings big smiles. but that kind of car takes a while to get used to what the limits are and the consequences on going over at the kind of speed are not friendly to your health.

[jimkelly]

http://www.negativereinforcementracing.com/

track car - 500hp and wide body - what is your budget?

[turboman808]

2,200lb car with 500hp will be a point and shoot car. there will be so much acceleration that if you can get the traction you would spend more time trying to get it slowed down and settled for a corner then you would be on the gas!

tc9148 has a 400+hp v8 car and i drove it.... brings big smiles. but that kind of car takes a while to get used to what the limits are and the consequences on going over at the kind of speed are not friendly to your health.

When they first created Street Modified in SCCA I was using a turbo civic with 350hp at the wheels. Almost uncontrollable at autox. Thankfully I had a boost controller and could turn it down to about 250hp.

It was still what I considered a point and shoot car. It was setup so the rear would rotate around corners and this allowed me to get on the gas faster. Very weird and twitchy setup but I was winning like this.

[pcar916]

Another interesting characteristic is that with big horsepower, you'll spend almost as much time shifting as you do accelerating. But it's fun. The transmission, clutch, and shift mechanicals have to be in tiptop shape all the time.

[914 shifter]

Sounds really expensive ,buy one already done for less than half.Save yourself alot of time and money.Ballpark, for what you are describing ,you are looking at over 30,000.Jake sold a real sweet car here with 140 h.p. for under 9,000 that was good to go,and I am sure it was pretty fast too.So, do you wanna drive, or do you want a hobby??? Are you a race car driver???Jason

140 HP = 130 MPH (IMG:style_emoticons/default/happy11.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/laugh.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/driving.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/popcorn[1].gif)

[nsr-jamie]

Here is one for you. twin supercharged V8 914 I am not sure how much power it has, can't remember if it was 750 or 1000 HP

Hope you have a lot of money to spend. Sounds like a fun project

I think with so much power its not really useable unless you have some kind of traction control or AWD system. That I would like to see on a 914 someday like a modern exotic car

[J P Stein]

Here's a vid if you haven't seen it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y-Et-cJPgPM

That is a 300rwhp + motor blowing off 10 inch wide slicks.

The chassis is heavily reinforced and the car weighs around 1800 lbs......no dreaming here but the real thing driven in anger by a guy that knows his work.
300+ hp is not a part time thing. Purpose built is (IMO) the logical thing to do....unless you just want to brag about all that HP that you can't use.

The building of this beastie has been spread all over the net for the last 10 years......it's no small chore. If it were done by a shop the costs would more than double over the approx 35k invested.

BTW, it's still "nimble".....more so than most 914s.

The above re just my opinions. If you don't like them I have others. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)