SS Brake Lines from Pelican, DOT & non-DOT Options

[thomasotten]

Can anyone tell me which of these two sets of brake lines from Pelican are the better ones. One is DOT approved, and cheaper, and the other isn't approved and a few more dollars.

Stainless Steel Brake Line Set, DOT Approved, Includes Front and Rear Lines, 914 1.7/1.8/2.0 (1972-1976), 914-6 (1972 on), Each
SS914D $49.25

Stainless Steel Brake Line Set, Non-DOT Approved, Includes Front and Rear Lines, 914 1.7/1.8/2.0 (1972-1976), 914-6 (1972 on), Each

$54.50

[Aaron Cox]

seems like an easy choice to me (IMG:style_emoticons/default/idea.gif) ,

if you drive it on the street, go for the DOT (IMG:style_emoticons/default/chair.gif)

[lapuwali]

Stainless lines get dirt worked into the braid, and esp. at the ends, this dirt works away at the teflon inner line and will eventually cause sudden, total failure. I've had this happen, and it's not at all fun. The DOT versions of the lines have protective plastic covering all or part of the braid (at least the ends), to keep out this dirt, and substantially reduce the possibility of catastrophic failure.

This process takes a good long time (unless you spend a lot of time off-road or in very dusty environments); long enough that a racer will probably serve out its entire lifetime w/o a failure. In a road car, 2-3 years maybe be enough, and it's pretty hard to spot the damage until the line fails.

I've made my own braided lines in the past (actually pretty easy to do), and protect them with clear plastic tubing along the entire length of the braid, covering the ends. This keeps dirt out of the braid, and keeps the braid from rubbing the paint off everything it touches.

[thomasotten]

Wow, it sounds like I don't want braided lines at all, if that's the case. I mean, there doesn't seem to be a pint in the braided lines, if they are more prone to failure than the OEM ones. Do new Porsches have braided lines?

[Mark Henry]

I removed the SS lines off of my bug and every 2nd swedged end broke off (IMG:style_emoticons/default/ohmy.gif)

BTW these were "Earl's" brand of hose. To think I was trusting my (and families) life on these POS. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)

Only DOT rubber for me from now on.
Also my hose supplier will not sell you those "make your own braided lines" if they know your making brake hoses.

[lapuwali]

I think the DOT braided lines are safe. No reason to completely avoid these. The non-DOT, non-protected lines are what cause the problem, either home-made or bought off the shelf.

Earl's fittings work great, and there are a good many race plumbing supply places that will sell you everything you need to make your own lines. I prefer this when I can, simply because I trust myself to do a good job on the one set I'll make every few years. Certainly more than I'd trust some anonymous pimply teenager making hundreds of these a day who has no accountability if the thing fails later. I've made up a number of lines using Earl's fittings and hose with no problems after long use, as long as I either protected the lines or regularly inspected and replaced them.

I'd put faith in a set of name-brand DOT braided lines, and have. There are a set of DOT Goodridge hoses on my 914 now. I know a number of people who will not use anything but rubber lines on street cars, and I can sympathise. I don't agree with their position, but I can understand it.

[thomasotten]

I guess my only question is, how dows one know if they need to replace their lines? With rubber lines, you can actually see the rubber, and you can see and irregular bulges. With ss, how would you know?

[Aaron Cox]

tom, you going with m calipers still? or was that you who won thos funky bmw calipers....? ever get the pistons out?

[thomasotten]

Acox:

I am doing the "M" calipers in the front. I am in the midst of a 5-lug conversion, and am gathering parts. I want to redo the brakes at the same time. I did get that piston out of the 911 caliper by hooking it up to the car and forcing it out. Are you running stainless lines?

[ArtechnikA]

I guess my only question is, how dows one know if they need to replace their lines? With rubber lines, you can actually see the rubber, and you can see and irregular bulges.

check your calendar. if it's been 2-3 years, off they go. if the lines have been stressed (hung any calipers from the brake line lately?) off they go.

they point is, they -may- swell less and provide a stiffer pedal. i've run them on my cars, and i'm putting a set on the 911.

most rubber hose failures are actually in the inner liner where you can't see them either. those you replace in the event that you detect any visible external tears (not an issue with braided stainless-sheatherd Teflon) or you encounted a grabbing corner caused by inner liner atherosclerosis (not an issue with Teflon liners).

you choose a set of issues that you are comfortable dealing with, and take your chances.

[Mark Henry]

Rubber lines can "look" good but swell shut if they're old. On our cars they are most likely good for several years. If they look original (30+yrs old) it's best to replace them.

My SS hoses "looked" OK.

[anthony]

So what's the point of SS brake hoses? Do they really result in a stiffer pedal feel or higher performance?

[Mark Henry]

So what's the point of SS brake hoses? Do they really result in a stiffer pedal feel or higher performance?

Well yes, a bit, but IMO it's not worth it in a street, sometimes AX car.
I had them in my bug, total waste of money.

BTW I had to do the screwdiver on the starter trick one time, hit the SS line, nice spark.
Put on the brake and that line went POP!

[JWest]

I once worked for one of the major automotive performance plumbing companies, so I know a little about the DOT vs non-DOT brake lines. I actually built them for a while!

The normal failure mode for stainless braided teflon hoses is a kink in the line. You can't kink a factory rubber hose, but you can kink a braided stainless line, and failure is eminent once this happens. The kink will nearly always occur next to the fitting.

When we made a DOT version, we used a special fitting with a larger ID. A teflon sleeve was inserted over the stainless braid at the end and crimped into the fitting. This would act as a strain relief so it would be much more difficult to get a kink in the hose.

I think we had to make the DOT hoses a little longer to insure they would not be extended beyond their length during operation.

Interestingly, once a hose exceeded a certain length (maybe 24 inches) there was no need for special fittings for DOT approval. The only requirement was to have "DOT" printed on the braid.

I have failed braided lines that were on cars too long - the customer was lucky I did it in the shop with a hard pedal push rather than have it happen to him out on the road!

For a street car, I recommend new rubber hoses every few years. And if you run braided, replace them every few years too.

[andys]

Earl's fittings work great, and there are a good many race plumbing supply places that will sell you everything you need to make your own lines. I prefer this when I can, simply because I trust myself to do a good job on the one set I'll make every few years. Certainly more than I'd trust some anonymous pimply teenager making hundreds of these a day who has no accountability if the thing fails later. I've made up a number of lines using Earl's fittings and hose with no problems after long use, as long as I either protected the lines or regularly inspected and replaced them.

I've bought custom SS brake lines in special lengths with special ends from Earl's quite a few times. Each time, they ran a pressure test before turning them over to me; I know, because I was at Earl's when they performed the tests. I would hesitate to feel safe making my own (for brake line applications) without testing them. Though I realize there's a high probability for a good result making your own, the tested lines do add a greater degree of assurance. That said, perhaps the DOT lines are all pressure tested. Anyone? James?

Andy

[JWest]

No pressure testing where I worked, but we used crimp fittings and the crimps were all inspected twice. The way the crimp collar compressed could tell you if the line was pulling away from the fitting inside.

[Aaron Cox]

yep. tom, im running the pelica DOT lines.

[TimT]

That said, perhaps the DOT lines are all pressure tested.

Actually the requirement for DOT approval is in the hose ends..

A really distilled version of the spec is that it requires non removable hose ends..hence the crimped or swaged on ends...

If the SS brake line has in fact met the DOT (SAE) spec... I wouldnt hesitate to use it..

[Ctrout]

So is $65 for a brand-new set of 4 stainless braided D.O.T lines a good deal?

[thomasotten]

They are $50 at Pelican. BTW, I am starting to see what people mean about AA. There is just something wrong with their whole order department.