3.2 conversion for a 76, Need to pass smog in Cali Options

[rd914]

Been a long time lurker. I have a 76 and seriously thinking about doing a six conversion. Specifically looking at a 3.2. Will I still be able to retain all the smog related equipment. Or will fitment issues force me remove them.

I want to make sure I can still pass smog inspection. Thank you for all the great threads and inspiration. 914world rocks!!!!

[RiqueMar]

Unfortunately, you're right on the line and you still have to maintain your SMOG equipment in California.

I know, it's stupid. There's always talk of them 'moving the year', but it's been all talk for a while now.

[914Mels]

Been a long time lurker. I have a 76 and seriously thinking about doing a six conversion. Specifically looking at a 3.2. Will I still be able to retain all the smog related equipment. Or will fitment issues force me remove them.

I want to make sure I can still pass smog inspection. Thank you for all the great threads and inspiration. 914world rocks!!!!

You need to make friends with a smog tech to guide you through this. The engine swap rules are pretty specific and California is not known for letting things slide. A six cylinder wasn't available in '76 so you may be screwed from the start. Alot of the tech's in san Diego are car nuts so don't be afraid to ask before you put any money into this project.

[SLITS]

You will have to have everything the engine came with in the original car and I believe a "check engine" light wired in if it was in the original vehicle. You then would get to talk to a Referee and convince him.

[MoveQik]

My car is a '75 3.2 conversion. Here in AZ that would have made it a PIA to pass emissions. However, since I have the car insured as a collector car I am not required to go through emissions. Don't suppose CA has any such loophole?

[Mike Bellis]

You can install any engine the same year or newer. You must retain all smog equipment and electronics of the new engine. You will then have to take it to a referee station to get it certified.

[SirAndy]

You can install any engine the same year or newer. You must retain all smog equipment and electronics of the new engine. You will then have to take it to a referee station to get it certified.

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif)

I've never even seen the smog stuff on a 3.2L so without knowing what all the components are, i have nothing else to say besides: "Good Luck!"

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/bye1.gif)

[PRS914-6]

(IMG:style_emoticons/default/agree.gif) Yep, you will need the catalytic converter and EVERYTHING smog related to the engine that was originally installed on the new engine.

In the "old days" it was easy to get a smog guy to pass you with a few extra bucks or if he was a car buff. Hell, they might even put the tail pipe sniffer in a different car. These days with a rolling dyno, machines that are plugged directly to the DMV and smog inspectors worried about losing the licenses you should stick on the legal route. If for no other reason you won't be able to sell it.

I hate to say it by my suggestion is to get an earlier car 75> that doesn't get a biannual smog test (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

[Mike Bellis]

It would be much easier to pick up an older 914 and do the swap. You will need a 911 to strip apart. You need a good chunk of the harness including the ODB port. The exhaust may be a problem. You will need the cats from the 911 and build a legal exhaust system. It can be done but is a lot of work.

[jcd914]

3.2's did not have OBD so no OBD port to worry about. The emission controls are almost all on the engine, part of the DME system. The major obstacle (as I see it) is the cat converter. We did several of these transplants into earlier 911's and it was close to plug and play. Wiring in the DME system was the hardest part on a 911, DME has a separate wiring harness so there are relatively few (from a conversion point of view) connections to the vehicle wiring. It was also necessary to wire in the original tach because it had an upshift light that was part of the emissions system according to the Cal Air Resource Board (CARB). In a 914 you would have to have a sealed crankcase ventilation system like the engine had in the 911, no little K&N breather filter off the oil tank. The charcoal canister from the 911 would probably have to be mounted and plumbed in. And you have to have an exhaust fabed with an acceptable (to CARB) cat converter in it. I can't picture where you could have a original cat mounted close enough to the heads to meet smog rules so you would have to find 1 or 2 replacement cats that are CARB certified (as in $$$) that a referee station would accept for the engine.
Could be a road full pot holes.
Jim

[Cap'n Krusty]

"A road filled with potholes" More like a lot of potholes loosely connected with a road like thing. DME system (including the tach, which is essential to the operation of the engine), the complete sealed evap system, the catalyst (as was mentioned before, a cat that the referee will accept, which means a cat APPROVED FOR USE WITH THE ENGINE AND EXHAUST SYSTEM (ALSO APPROVED) FOR THE ENGINE. Hint: There aren't any. The approval process costs tens of thousands of dollars per item or system. The transmission also has to be on the list of approved transmissions for the engine. IOW, you'd be screwed.

There was a really nice guy who imported inline 4 cylinder Jetta engines as installed in Vanagons in South Africa. Nice kit, worked well in Vanagons sold in the USA. After 5 or 6 years, maybe more, of trying to get approval for an existing system, built in a VW factory and installed on VW vehicles by VW, he gave up. The CA EPA flat out bankrupted him.

Find an older chassis. The Cap'n

[brp986s]

A 3.2 doesn't have an OBD port. All you need is the O2 sensor and cat. If your 914 is CA you should already have the cat. Just mod the 914 exhaust to mate with the headers you'll end up getting for the 3.2 for test purposes. I put a 3.0 in a '77 911 and had the CA Ref sign it off. For whatever reason the 911 didn't require a cat and it passed emissions w/o it. Maybe the emissions criteria were kinda loose then. A 3.2 should pass also if it's in good shape. It'll probably be easier to get 3.2 to pass than a '76 4 cyl with all that ridiculous air injection, egr, and etc.

[sww914]

Read what the Cap'n said about exhaust. You must have exhaust with a CARB number. You probably don't want to be the first guy to spend $75,000.00 or so to get a 914-6 exhaust CARB certified. Your exhaust has to be either stock factory exhaust for that engine (which faces the wrong way) or have a CARB number plate welded on. Beyond that, all the other little details are bullshit because without that you will never be able to get it registered.

[brp986s]

These cars are so old the refs have no clue what was or wasn't oem for that engine. When I had my 911 3.0 certified the CA Ref asked me what year the engine was. Never bothered to look at the engine #. He looked on the computer and saw a cat was not required. He ran the test, printed the compliance tag, stuck it on the door jamb and I was done.

I'm sure it's alot different if you're an aftermarket manufacturer trying to certify a system. YMMV.

[RiqueMar]

These cars are so old the refs have no clue what was or wasn't oem for that engine. When I had my 911 3.0 certified the CA Ref asked me what year the engine was. Never bothered to look at the engine #. He looked on the computer and saw a cat was not required. He ran the test, printed the compliance tag, stuck it on the door jamb and I was done.

I'm sure it's alot different if you're an aftermarket manufacturer trying to certify a system. YMMV.

You could risk it, you can do all the homework on all the different combinations and modifications, do all the conversion work on that 76' chassis, get it running and tuned and inspection ready, and possibly get away with it.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)

OR you could find a car atleast one year older and not ever have to worry about risking it. (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sunglasses.gif)

[moparrob]

Or you could find a smashed/trashed pre-76 car and transfer the numbers and title to your car, if you are really attached to yours. Highly illegal, though. A lot simpler...

[RiqueMar]

Or you could find a smashed/trashed pre-76 car and transfer the numbers and title to your car, if you are really attached to yours. Highly illegal, though. A lot simpler...

True, true.... (IMG:style_emoticons/default/sawzall-smiley.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/default/welder.gif)

[brant]

having fought with the DMV out here (where it is easy, although we have a dyno test).....


I'd consider selling your 1976 and buying a 1975-or earlier car also.

you could still save money in the long run

brant

[shoguneagle]

The 3.2 911 engine is a great engine which should meet California Smog requirements IF you install all the smog equipment and take the installation through the referee station. It has to meet the equipment requirements as well as the running performance. How do I know???

I recently built a 1987 Motronic conversion which involved installing all the smog equipment since I build everything to California specs. My car is a 1974 (currently exempt) which has all the smog equipment. The smog equipment consists of the vapor recovery system, the auxiliary breather system (requires modification to the 914-6 tank or use the 911 Carrera). The Motronic injection system should be used and it does not have any "light" to worry about.

I believe your 1976 car requires a catalytic converter which should be included in the exhaust system and should be in line with the 914 car side. Cats belong to the car side therefore you should be able to get away from using the 911 Carrera exhaust system requirements.

As I said before I built my car to California specs since one of these days I will be moving back home and I expect my car to meet California requirements whether they do cancel the exemption of 1975 and prior cars.

Wiring is the next major problem and there are enough people who have done the 3.2 conversion. Sir Andy is the one to talk to if considering a 3.6 engine.

Always plan in detail and verify every piece of information such as the above before becoming involved in actually acquiring the needed parts. This conversion is expensive so make sure you really want to do it; it usually takes a lot longer than you have planned; you need equipment or access to friends who have equipment to build the project.

Although I live in Arizona (high country), my 914 will be returning to California where I will keep it on a permanent basis in the Bay Area.

Hope the above info helps you. Just got my project driving on the highway with dependability. Have many smaller assembly jobs to do and painting, but it is a great rush to drive it down the highway.

Good Luck,
Steve Hurt

[shoguneagle]

I just read the comments again and Capt Krusty has some very valid points. He is normally on target and is very experienced in Porsche. Do not get involved in switching numbers from older cars; not worth the potential trouble you can get involved in.

Can you get with a referee and talk about the conversion you are planning?? You need to have some source written and verbal that gives you up to date info not based on "hear-say"

Listen to what the "Capt." says because he gives it straight. You need to verify the exhaust/cat problem with the referree if possible.

Steve Hurt